Slawnski Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Working on my 1927 model 27 standard. Pulled the engine and transmission. Round 1 of degreasing completed tonight. Is there a source for gaskets/ seals? I’ve done an initial search and have come up empty. Last guy used a bit of silicone- see photo for the ring of silicone that came out. Second question- I’m assuming the transmission and bel housing were originally early Buick green? and pedals, brake handles were originally black? I’ll be painting parts in the coming days /week and would like these to be original color. I have Bill Hirsch engine enamel in early Buick green and black. Thanks for any help you can send my way last photo is the gelatinous silicone ring that came out sitting in a 4x4 block…. Eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Is tranny oil leaking out the output shaft ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Olsens Gaskets should be able to supply you. Most of the gaskets can be made from flat gasket sheets from the auto parts store and an Exacto knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 As mentioned you can buy flat sheet gasket material of different thicknesses . Also a hole punch set will be a tool you will use more than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 16 hours ago, dodge28 said: Is tranny oil leaking out the output shaft ? Yes oil leaking out of output shaft- transmission was sitting rear down though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 The Gaskets are simple. Just make them. I don't remember there being seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I had a 1941 Buick and the gearbox looks strikingly similar. Remove the rear piece housing and expose the output shaft . you will find a cork seal. Take it off. You will notice there is a grove on the shaft. Use a piece of cork sheet and make a new seal. The finished seal must be about .010 thou or more above the steel shaft. If not wrap a piece of tape around the grove to lift the cork. Use crazy glue to keep the ends of the cork together. Miter the edges around thinly, grease the cork and force the housing over it. The other gaskets are made of of regular gasket paper. Gasket hole cutters are sold on Amazon . The problem with closed gear boxes are when the oil gets hot it creates vapor which tries to escape and looks for weak spots. Comes out through the gaskets in fine spray a little at a time. Over long periods of use it gets oily all over the case. Very subtle.. The only solution I see is to drill a 1/8 pipe thread on the cover and install something like a EGR valve, need to do some plumbing. It will allow the hot fumes to escape. Anyhow this is my dumb idea. Better to use non hardening gasket glue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 No cork seal there- looks like a previous owner used silicone- I’ll make a cork gasket- I have a nice hole punch set my father made as a machinist- comes in handy. Are there torque specs available for this transmission? I want to pull the output yoke and remove the rear housing that holds the speedometer assembly- same for the base plate the release bearing slides on. I’m pretty sure there had to have been a spec for these- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Slawnsky, I never seen any sort of specks on the Buick anywhere . I played it by ear and used the general guide for bolts sizes and torque based on grade 5 or 6 . For example a grade 5 3/8 bolt torque is between 45 and 50 LBS. Some one on this forum should be able to provide you with a list. While you are there do check the flywheel for wear. I cannot remember what the pilot bearing / bushing looks like. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 (edited) I had a few minutes to take more of the transmission down. Does anybody have an exploded view of this transmission by chance? See first photo- looks to have been a keeper at one point. It sits between rear bearing and the rear housing that holds Speedo gear the edge around this keeper has a bit of damage: I’m certain it’s not going to affect anything- but I’ll need another keeper. This rear bearing is going to need to be replaced- it’s been spinning with bits of this rim and keeper for a few minutes- and as long as I’m pulling parts off and in this far it doesn’t make much sense to leave it- Man - this transmission has been leaking for a long time- the layers of grease and dirt are pretty tenacious. I’ve got a lot of cleaning and disassembly ahead of me. Edited February 7 by Slawnski Man. — noisy (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I will stay with you to help guide you along where ever I can. In the old days when such bearings spins in its recess the mechanics punched holes all over the walls to make the race fit a little tighter. There was no other way. Here is my dumb idea again. If you cannot find a replacement a little larger, here is what you can do. Machine the outer race down and use a shim. hammer into place . Stay cool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Another idea is to replace the rear bearing with a sealed one. The question is does the u joint get lube through the bearing or is there another path? it's years since I had one of these apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 7 hours ago, Oldtech said: Another idea is to replace the rear bearing with a sealed one. The question is does the u joint get lube through the bearing or is there another path? it's years since I had one of these apart. I’m pretty sure the path through the bearing is the only way that rear universal joint gets lubricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Bearings without seals can be permanently greased in its working position. Use a mixture of gear oil and light axle grease to a nice soft soupy batter and fill the area. I know it works in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Final disassembly tonight. Taking the case to a transmission shop to get it hottanked/ cleaned. Hoping to get internals cleaned and case painted this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Any thoughts on the yellow circle in the last picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Ended up using power washer- painted inside the bel housing tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Looking good. From the pictures the gears look good too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Gears do look very presentable. Overall very happy with the condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I do not know if you found any paint on the inside of your bell housing. None of my earlier 1925 units and my 1937 show any such paint. Just saying with the cost of paint I would not have wasted time and materials painting insiide. On the other hand, when I had my engine rebuilt the oil pan and lower crancase was re-coated with red Glytol. The oil pan does get pinholes from many years of acid effect of oil and combustion byproduct. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, dibarlaw said: I do not know if you found any paint on the inside of your bell housing. None of my earlier 1925 units and my 1937 show any such paint. Just saying with the cost of paint I would not have wasted time and materials painting insiide. On the other hand, when I had my engine rebuilt the oil pan and lower crancase was re-coated with red Glytol. The oil pan does get pinholes from many years of acid effect of oil and combustion byproduct. The only reason I ended up painting inside the Bell housing is because once this transmission is assembled, it’s going to be wrapped in a bag and put on a shelf until the rest of the vehicle is ready to go together. That could be three months from now before the engine and transmission get mated and drop back into the restored chassis. Who am I kidding? It could be six months + from now! With everything being cleaned and degreased the reality of that bare cast-iron inner housing getting rusty would’ve been a little disappointing to me when I pulled the transmission out to mate with the engine. I like the prospect of coating the oil pan with glytol. I do believe I’m going to do that. Edited February 10 by Slawnski Spelling and grammatical errors (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) I made two transmission gasket sets when I did my 1925 Standard. My intention was to mail one set to Olson's as they keep the records on all these. If they do not have the gaskets, let me know. Maybe I never mailed the set to them. There are 3 washers inside the input shaft. Instructions on how to install an input shaft seal. I had the brake and cluth pedals powder coated gloss black. It is a more durable finish than paint. Make sure they plug the pivot holes in the pedals. The output ball has a felt seal. Available from Bob's. Hugh Edited February 11 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 Thanks Hugh! I got the thrust washers right- seal installed ( from Bob’s) The SKF seal, however- might have escaped me. I ordered one - glad access is through the front- thank you for that info- you’re awesome! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Check the flywheel for clutch wear while the tranny is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Not familiar with Buick trans but my 29 Dodge bros trans does not use seals in the trans. The trans used 600 wt oil. It appears almost like tar. Never had leakage if filled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I mentioned on this forum before. A mixture of poly grease and heavy tranny oil to a thick batter like consistency in tranny leaves no leaks. The gears are constantly lubricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 10 minutes ago, dodge28 said: I mentioned on this forum before. A mixture of poly grease and heavy tranny oil to a thick batter like consistency in tranny leaves no leaks. The gears are constantly lubricated. Please define "poly grease." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 THIS IS AVAILABLE AT: https://restorationstuff.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Grimy Sorry. Poly grease is the white grease used on rebuilt engines and other applications, Is it called Polyurethane ? I cannot remember . It also comes in black. Nice for greasing rubber seals before installation. easy to clean excess spills. I know from experience it also works as rust prevention on parts stored for long periods. Not messy like axle grease. I used it to lubricate the lower windscreen rubber seal on my 1972 MGB. Helps the rubber face to slide outward. Better than soapy water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Thanks @dodge28 I'd be interested in that for rubber lube purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Hi Grimy, sorry for the mistake. The name of the grease is Molibddenum or something like that. I call it moly for short. My memory falters sometimes. Time to pack up from the forum. Good bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 14 minutes ago, dodge28 said: Hi Grimy, sorry for the mistake. The name of the grease is Molibddenum or something like that. I call it moly for short. My memory falters sometimes. Time to pack up from the forum. Good bye. Don't pack up, @dodge28!! No worries! I was looking for something to add to 600W to slow down inevitable leaks from old seals that I'm getting too old to replace! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31367/using-polyurea-grease 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Thank you @Bloo. Doesn't seem right for my intended purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 600W is the last oil that I would buy. The label says 1,000 miles between oil changes. That's inadequate by todays standards . Even though a person is likely never to go another 1,000 miles in their antique car. M533 from Snyders is a better choice and a modern equivalent for the steering gear/rear axle/transmission. In addition, my 1925 Buick transmission does not shift well on 600W. I use a blend of 60% Lucas 80/90 synthetic gear oil and 40% Lucas HD oil stabilizer. A recommendation from the Ford Model A club. Available locally and I find shifting improved with it. Definitely keep the rear axle fluid level 1" below the fluid filling plug as the 600W bottle says. I am used to filling these until fluid runs out, but that is too much and the oil can find it's way into rear brakes. Hugh Edited February 13 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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