66 Riviera Keys

[wildwilf]

Can someone tell me if the 66 Riviera had hex or square keys. mine came with hex but when I had keys cut the only blank that would fit was square.

If hex can you tell me the # of the blank

 

Thanks Wilf

[rocketraider]

66 and 67 were transition years for GM keys. The octagon-head Briggs & Stratton style ignition and door key was used 1935-1966 and the rectangular head appeared in 1967. Same for the "pear head" trunk and glovebox keys.

 

These keys kept the same grooving profile for 30 years and there were a set number of codes, so keys from one car would often open and start another. Theft deterrent concerns brought about the different groove profiles used 67-later.

 

The rectangular and oval head key blanks have several different profiles: A, B, C, D for ignition and E, F, G, H for trunk depending on year. I have seen I and J blanks too. The blank code is stamped into the side of the blank.

 

The A and E (possibly B and F) blanks should fit a 1966 GM vehicle.

 

If you can find a local locksmith odds are they'll have the octagon and pear blanks. Some even have them with the GM logo.

 

You might check with Joe Padavano here on the forums. He has original style GM key cutting equipment and may have blanks. Jesser's Classic Keys is a good source too http://www.jessersclassickeys.com/

[NTX5467]

1967 was the first year of the "GM Mark of Excellence" logo.  The logo which was on the ignition key square head and ususally a decal on the driver's door shell, near the lock mechanism in plain sight.

 

The B&S keys had a thicker cross-section than the later, thinner "GM" keys.  BUT they still used the same letter blank designations.  So no problem to cut a later key for use in a B&S era lock cylinder.

 

In the later "H" blanks for door keys, Buick had one which was not square, but had an additional wide end on it.  In the parts book, specific to 1990s Buick models only.  Obviously, it was easier to hold and turn for "older hands"?  But the KEY thing is that the correct blank code is used, no matter the year of the vehicle.

 

I always let other work associates cut keys.  One guy was very meticulous about how he rebuilt lock cylinders and such.  I wanted no part of that!  UNTIL . . . I bought a 1968 Buick service manual and read the section of how to read the cut depths on the keys, to duplicate them.  THEN . . . it all made sense.  I soon learned to cut keys accurately.  We still had some of the old B&S blanks in various designations, so when it was for an older car, I used them, which made the customers happy.  Otherwise, I used the square blanks which they could copy onto an earlier blank if desired.

 

I lived though the transition (with the existing grinder/duplicator) to the modern 10-cut keys.  When the side-cut keys happened, we bought them pre-cut from GM.  Later, we got a NC cutter for them.  Even with them, there are 5 "cut depths".

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited September 15, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

Yep 66 and 67 had octagon ignition keys. Readily available on ebay.

[Pat Curran]

GM also put the “Mark of Excellence” metal decal on the passenger door in the same location as the drivers door.  It would be a one year only initiative.

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, JZRIV said:

Yep 66 and 67 had octagon ignition keys.

Are you sure about '67 (ref. NTX's comments above)?  Could it be a 'transition year' thing, where the GM keys were phased-in over 1967 production?

 

1 hour ago, Pat Curran said:

GM also put the “Mark of Excellence” metal decal on the passenger door in the same location as the drivers door.  It would be a one year only initiative.

All '67s  (or, at least all Rivieras)?

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by EmTee (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

19 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Are you sure about '67 (ref. NTX's comments above)?  Could it be a 'transition year' thing, where the GM keys were phased-in over 1967 production?

 

All '67s  (or, at least all Rivieras)?

 

GM ran a special ad campaign announcing the new Mark of Excellence initiative and they would proudly put the Mark of Excellence sticker inside the doors of every GM vehicle.  
My family bought a new 67 Caprice coupe and a new 67 Impala SS convertible and both vehicles had them.  A friend has an all original 67 Corvette that has them.  Another friend has a 67 GTO with them. 
Of course assembly line work being what it is and the occasional supply issues, I’m sure some vehicles came through without them.

As an added note, I just looked it up.  Wikipedia claims the decals first appeared in late 1966 although I have never seen a 1966 with them.  1967’s would be in production by that time.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Pat Curran
Update content (see edit history)

[EmTee]

12 minutes ago, Pat Curran said:

Wikipedia claims the decals first appeared in late 1966 although I have never seen a 1966 with them.  1967’s would be in production by that time.

I agree, those were likely '67 models produced during calendar year 1966.

[wildwilf]

thanks for all the replies.

he best I can figure the b10 and b11 blanks are for a '66 but they don't fit my lock

I have come to the conclusion the cylinder was changed some time in the last 50 or so years. 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by wildwilf (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

B10 and B11 are the correct blanks for '66. As has been stated, in '67, the number of blanks increased to increase the number of possible key combinations to repress theft.

 

Tom Mooney

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, wildwilf said:

I have come to the conclusion the cylinder was changed some time in the last 50 or so years. 

Is this the ignition switch only or also the door lock cylinders?

 

Trying to remember which keys my dad's 68 ElCamino used. I swear I believe it had the octagon head key.

[EmTee]

I recall my father's '68 Chevy pickup using the octagon key, but maybe trucks lagged in the changeover...

[cquisuila]

the truth !!!😉

in the OWNER'S MANUAL RIVIERA 1967 !!

[rocketraider]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:48 AM, wildwilf said:

thanks for all the replies.

he best I can figure the b10 and b11 blanks are for a '66 but they don't fit my lock

I have come to the conclusion the cylinder was changed some time in the last 50 or so years. 

Possibly with a generic parts store lock cylinder? Those usually came with their own keys.

 

Does the ignition key work in the door locks? If it won't open the doors it's almost certainly been changed.

 

[cquisuila]

the octogonal original key opens doors and starts engine

[Frank DuVal]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:01 AM, rocketraider said:

On 9/16/2023 at 8:48 AM, wildwilf said:

I have come to the conclusion the cylinder was changed some time in the last 50 or so years. 

Is this the ignition switch only or also the door lock cylinders?

 

Trying to remember which keys my dad's 68 ElCamino used. I swear I believe it had the octagon head key.

 

 

OK, the B-10, B-11 octagon and pear head key blanks fit 1935 to 1966 GM vehicles.

 

In 1967, B&S started the A and B keyways, with the B-40 and B-41 blanks. These WERE octagon and pear head, just like the earlier key blanks, they just had an A or B just below the head to let you know they were different than the previous 31 years.

 

Then in 1968, B&S continued with different keyways, now using C and D blanks. BUT! the heads were still octagon and pear. These would be known in the aftermarket as B-42 and B-43.

 

What changed for 1969? Remember? That's right, except for Corvair, all the other GM vehicles got steering column locks. That octagon head blank was now tiny to use, so B&S made the E and H (no F or G blanks were made, too easy to mistake for E and C?) blanks rectangular and oval, larger then the old octagon and pear heads. These are still the B-44 and B-45 blanks in the aftermarket.

 

Follow so far? 

 

AB, CD are small head keys as produced by B&S in 1967 and 1968.

 

EH are large head keys made in 1969 to fit steering column locks.

 

But, you say, when I get A B C D blanks today they are large heads. Right!

 

Since B&S continued with new keyways for the 1970 model year, with the J and K keyways using large heads (B-46, B-47), but repeated the A and B keyways for 1971, C and D for 1972, starting to see the pattern? That's right. When B&S made the A, B, C and D blanks in 1971 and later, they had to be large heads for the steering column locks, so these blanks became the B-48, B-49 and the C&D large head became the B-50 and B-51. From then on the aftermarket no longer supplied the B-40, B-41, B-42 or B-43 blanks, since the B-48 to B-51 blanks would do the job, just look different. Even B&S stopped producing these small head A,B,C,D blanks at some point.

 

 

On 9/15/2023 at 6:21 PM, NTX5467 said:

1967 was the first year of the "GM Mark of Excellence" logo.  The logo which was on the ignition key square head and ususally a decal on the driver's door shell, near the lock mechanism in plain sight.

 

The B&S keys had a thicker cross-section than the later, thinner "GM" keys.  BUT they still used the same letter blank designations.  So no problem to cut a later key for use in a B&S era lock cylinder.

No, 67 keys (A and B keyway) were the small heads as I stated above as supplied with the car.

 

I have not seen any difference in "thickness" of B&S keys of the same keyway. Sure, the aftermarket blanks were sometimes thinner. B&S era? They are still OEM suppliers to GM, now known as Strattec. They are also OEM suppliers (Tier 1) to many other car companies.

 

On 9/15/2023 at 12:25 PM, rocketraider said:

66 and 67 were transition years for GM keys. The octagon-head Briggs & Stratton style ignition and door key was used 1935-1966 and the rectangular head appeared in 1967. Same for the "pear head" trunk and glovebox keys.

 

These keys kept the same grooving profile for 30 years and there were a set number of codes, so keys from one car would often open and start another. Theft deterrent concerns brought about the different groove profiles used 67-later.

 

The rectangular and oval head key blanks have several different profiles: A, B, C, D for ignition and E, F, G, H for trunk depending on year. I have seen I and J blanks too. The blank code is stamped into the side of the blank.

 

The A and E (possibly B and F) blanks should fit a 1966 GM vehicle.

 

If you can find a local locksmith odds are they'll have the octagon and pear blanks. Some even have them with the GM logo.

Glenn, some corrections: 

 

66 B&S parts books only list the Groove 15 ( aka B-10, B-11) as fitting all 1966 GM vehicles except Cadillac, which went to the Groove 50 and 51 (not B-50 and 51 blanks, but the B&S Groove designation that would become the A and B blank (aka the B-40 and B-41 aftermarket blank) in April of 1966. So Cadillac means you are right about 1966 being a transition year, but only for Cadillac.

 

You are right about theft being the reason for changing groove profiles.

 

A, C, E, and J are the ignition (and doors in the beginning of this run of letters) and the B, D, H and K are the trunk (and glove box, later on these include the doors) blanks.

 

No letter blank should fit a 1966 Buick's original locks*. All are Groove 15 aka B-10 B-11 small octagonal or pear head.

 

I have the blanks and can cut keys by code. Both aftermarket (Ilsco or such and B&S aka Strattec blanks). PM me for details if you need keys or cylinders' code changed. 

 

*Now, for some reason some aftermarket companies made locks to fit pre 67 GM cars and used the letter blanks to do it! The case I see all the time is an early Corvair (1960 to 1964) with an ignition cylinder having an A groove! You can buy these right now form one of the Corvair parts suppliers. Why in the Sam hill.......😡 Not like there was ever an ignition lock shaped like this during the A,B C etc. run of blanks.  Maybe the 66 Buick in question had some aftermarket cylinder installed earlier in it's life.

 

Wilf, this isn't a steering column lock, right? Then insert key, turn CCW until it stops (ACC position probably) insert paper clip in hole and continue turning CCW. The cylinder will come out in your hand. Read the code on the side of the cylinder. Is it 4 numbers starting with an 8 or 9? Or is it a combination of letters and numbers? Write it down either way in case you need it later, and put the cylinder back in and turn CW to LOCK. If you leave the cylinder out, the car will be in ACC and run the battery down after a while (overnight).

 

Tired of typing.....😁

 

[1965rivgs]

5 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

 

OK, the B-10, B-11 octagon and pear head key blanks fit 1935 to 1966 GM vehicles.

 

In 1967, B&S started the A and B keyways, with the B-40 and B-41 blanks. These WERE octagon and pear head, just like the earlier key blanks, they just had an A or B just below the head to let you know they were different than the previous 31 years.

 

Then in 1968, B&S continued with different keyways, now using C and D blanks. BUT! the heads were still octagon and pear. These would be known in the aftermarket as B-42 and B-43.

 

What changed for 1969? Remember? That's right, except for Corvair, all the other GM vehicles got steering column locks. That octagon head blank was now tiny to use, so B&S made the E and H (no F or G blanks were made, too easy to mistake for E and C?) blanks rectangular and oval, larger then the old octagon and pear heads. These are still the B-44 and B-45 blanks in the aftermarket.

 

Follow so far? 

 

AB, CD are small head keys as produced by B&S in 1967 and 1968.

 

EH are large head keys made in 1969 to fit steering column locks.

 

But, you say, when I get A B C D blanks today they are large heads. Right!

 

Since B&S continued with new keyways for the 1970 model year, with the J and K keyways using large heads (B-46, B-47), but repeated the A and B keyways for 1971, C and D for 1972, starting to see the pattern? That's right. When B&S made the A, B, C and D blanks in 1971 and later, they had to be large heads for the steering column locks, so these blanks became the B-48, B-49 and the C&D large head became the B-50 and B-51. From then on the aftermarket no longer supplied the B-40, B-41, B-42 or B-43 blanks, since the B-48 to B-51 blanks would do the job, just look different. Even B&S stopped producing these small head A,B,C,D blanks at some point.

 

 

No, 67 keys (A and B keyway) were the small heads as I stated above as supplied with the car.

 

I have not seen any difference in "thickness" of B&S keys of the same keyway. Sure, the aftermarket blanks were sometimes thinner. B&S era? They are still OEM suppliers to GM, now known as Strattec. They are also OEM suppliers (Tier 1) to many other car companies.

 

Glenn, some corrections: 

 

66 B&S parts books only list the Groove 15 ( aka B-10, B-11) as fitting all 1966 GM vehicles except Cadillac, which went to the Groove 50 and 51 (not B-50 and 51 blanks, but the B&S Groove designation that would become the A and B blank (aka the B-40 and B-41 aftermarket blank) in April of 1966. So Cadillac means you are right about 1966 being a transition year, but only for Cadillac.

 

You are right about theft being the reason for changing groove profiles.

 

A, C, E, and J are the ignition (and doors in the beginning of this run of letters) and the B, D, H and K are the trunk (and glove box, later on these include the doors) blanks.

 

No letter blank should fit a 1966 Buick's original locks*. All are Groove 15 aka B-10 B-11 small octagonal or pear head.

 

I have the blanks and can cut keys by code. Both aftermarket (Ilsco or such and B&S aka Strattec blanks). PM me for details if you need keys or cylinders' code changed. 

 

*Now, for some reason some aftermarket companies made locks to fit pre 67 GM cars and used the letter blanks to do it! The case I see all the time is an early Corvair (1960 to 1964) with an ignition cylinder having an A groove! You can buy these right now form one of the Corvair parts suppliers. Why in the Sam hill.......😡 Not like there was ever an ignition lock shaped like this during the A,B C etc. run of blanks.  Maybe the 66 Buick in question had some aftermarket cylinder installed earlier in it's life.

 

Wilf, this isn't a steering column lock, right? Then insert key, turn CCW until it stops (ACC position probably) insert paper clip in hole and continue turning CCW. The cylinder will come out in your hand. Read the code on the side of the cylinder. Is it 4 numbers starting with an 8 or 9? Or is it a combination of letters and numbers? Write it down either way in case you need it later, and put the cylinder back in and turn CW to LOCK. If you leave the cylinder out, the car will be in ACC and run the battery down after a while (overnight).

 

Tired of typing.....😁

 

  Great summation and thanks for sharing your knowledge. In my experience, you are "spot on".

  It is my experience that Strattec is no longer making one of the original shaped octagonal/round key blanks...true?

Thanks again,

Tom Mooney

[EmTee]

6 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Tired of typing.....😁

Thanks for that summary!  I think it makes sense that the rectangular head appeared with introduction of the column lock in 1969.  Like I said, I definitely recall my father's '68 Chevy pickup had the octagon key, like our '66 Catalina.  The '70 Catalina we had definitely had the rectangular key.  I guess I should get the keys for my '67 Riviera remade using the correct blanks...

[steelman]

EmTee, also remember GM trucks and vans didn’t get locks and switches on the column until 73. Still in the dash through 72.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for that information.  In my dealings with keys at the dealership, we bought GM keys and sold them under GM part numbers.  When I came online ln late 1976, we were fully into the rectangular head keys at that time.  We still had some residual B&S keys, though, plus the older hand cutters and code books.

 

I did not get involved with keys until I went to the front counter in about 1990s, yet having been around older vehicles, I knew of the B&S keys (which always seemed a bit strange compared to B&S lawn equipment).  I later discovered the same blank code on the earlier B&S keys as the later keys. in comparing them, that is when I noticed the B&S keys were thicker, but had the same grooves in them as the later keys.  Then, when we ran out of the desired B&S keys, I'd substitute the later square head keys for them, with the suggestion to file off the corners where they might hit the bezel around the ign cyl.  Everybody was happy to get a new key in the correct code, even if they might need to modify the head a bit to work in the ign cyl.  Then, should they encounter one of the vintage key vendors, they had a good pattern to deal with.

 

At some time in the 1990s or so, GM started to advertise that some cars could have "Valet keys" for certain cars.  The valet keys had a different large head and were thicker so they would only go into a cyl with a larger opening to accept them.  The same thickness as the old B&S keys, I noticed.  This was a marketing tool more than anything else as the valet key would only fit the ignition cyl.  Somewhere along the line, they were quietly discontinued and then the plastic "emergency use" keys were "the next big thing", for the next few years  . . . until people generally got affluent enough to call a locksmith or tow truck driver, when the keys broke off in a door lock cyl needing to be lubricated.

 

In dealing with keys, we always bought GM keys from GM parts.  That way, when a customer came in for a new key, they got a key exactly like the one they had lost/misplaced, rather than giving them something like they could get at Home Depot or similar.  To me, that made for a better experience.  I used the GM parts book to determine what was what, although we also had the other application book (with the "B" numbers in it.  I would look at as a shortcut or quick-reference guide for the keys we bought which didn't come from GM.  Many dealers bought from Curtis back then, who also supplied GM (and other brands) keys.  For a long time, after GM went to the "plastic head" keys, the Curtis/Stratec keys always looked like they were "over-cooked" in the molds when compared to the GM-sourced keys.  As a result, I bought the GM keys from GM as the GM-supplied keys looked like OEM rather than not.  As things progressed, my associates did not understand my OEM orientation, so the over-cooked-looking Stratecs came to be what we stocked.  BTAIM

 

It was the key guide which brought me to notice the "Buick H" door blank compared to the normal "Square H" blank used on non-Buicks.  Then the use of the carline logo on the blank heads, which increased the number of blanks massively, as to the heads and not the groove codes.

 

I had never put together then ears on the steering column lock cylinders and the square head keys.  I just went by what the parts book indicated and went from there.  Then noticing the same groove codes on the B&S and square head keys, plus the thicker B&S keys with the same groove codes.  The later, thinner square head keys could be used in the older, wider B&S cylinders, but not vice versa.  MIght have to file off the inner corners of the square head keys to use in the earlier cars, though.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[rocketraider]

Wonder is there somewhere this thread, and especially Frank's and Willis' information, can be stickied and indexed for quick access? Some awfully good GM key info here...

[Frank DuVal]

7 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

It is my experience that Strattec is no longer making one of the original shaped octagonal/round key blanks...true?

Strattec has not made the octagon and pear head A, B ,C and D blanks for years, probably since the mid 70s. They are still making the "original" aka B-10, B-11 blanks. I just bought some. Same part number. Octagon head B&S 32318, GM 3694624. Pear head B&S 32319, GM 7002238.

 

I have bought some of the small head A to D blanks on Ebay several years ago. They are still found there at amazing high prices (well, for key blanks 😁).

 

Yes, NTX, at some point maybe 80s 90s GM got other suppliers to make blanks. Then they went back to Strattec. And I agree the plastic overmolds on Ilsco do not look crisp like GM/Strattec blanks. I just order the pellet keys from Strattec jobbers.

 

Over the years (31 model year production run) the octagon/pear head keys carried different words/locations, the B&S logo (you know, the one on your lawnmower engine!), RP (Rochester Products), GM, etc changes. Some people want the exact head words to match their year. This is almost impossible now. Just accept a blank that fits the lock....🤣

 

3 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

the "Buick H" door blank compared to the normal "Square H" blank used on non-Buicks.

Ah, maybe not just Buick. This head design was available in the D and H groove blank. IIRC they were also found on the Chevrolet Lumina models for those years. I show Curtis versions of the D , aka B-67  and H  aka B-79. You can see they have "For GM Cars" instead of just a larger GM logo like the GM part numbers would have. Ah Ha! Just found the GM part numbers in the B&S 1991 parts book. D groove is 321622 and H groove is 321951. Listed for Buick Regals (both 2 and 4 door), Chevrolet Lumina, Oldsmobile Cutlass and Pontiac Grand Prix.

 

The valet keys I see are for the double sided series, not the single sided series we are discussing. They are missing a groove so they do not fit into the trunk lock. I've had 1997 and later Park Avenues come with the valet keys and I mounted these in a vise on a mill and cut the missing groove into them so I can use them as keys in every lock on my cars. Not that most any owner never locked the trunk so the inside switch wouldn't work to open the trunk anyway!😨 So why have a valet key for 99% of owners?

[RivNut]

https://ssl.corvair.com/user-cgi/catalog.cgi?show_page=89
 

Clark’s Corvair sells the original style key blanks.

[Frank DuVal]

Yes they do, I should have mentioned that.... dolt slap. 

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Strattec has not made the octagon and pear head A, B ,C and D blanks for years, probably since the mid 70s. They are still making the "original" aka B-10, B-11 blanks. I just bought some. Same part number. Octagon head B&S 32318, GM 3694624. Pear head B&S 32319, GM 7002238.

 

I have bought some of the small head A to D blanks on Ebay several years ago. They are still found there at amazing high prices (well, for key blanks 😁).

 

Yes, NTX, at some point maybe 80s 90s GM got other suppliers to make blanks. Then they went back to Strattec. And I agree the plastic overmolds on Ilsco do not look crisp like GM/Strattec blanks. I just order the pellet keys from Strattec jobbers.

 

Over the years (31 model year production run) the octagon/pear head keys carried different words/locations, the B&S logo (you know, the one on your lawnmower engine!), RP (Rochester Products), GM, etc changes. Some people want the exact head words to match their year. This is almost impossible now. Just accept a blank that fits the lock....🤣

 

Ah, maybe not just Buick. This head design was available in the D and H groove blank. IIRC they were also found on the Chevrolet Lumina models for those years. I show Curtis versions of the D , aka B-67  and H  aka B-79. You can see they have "For GM Cars" instead of just a larger GM logo like the GM part numbers would have. Ah Ha! Just found the GM part numbers in the B&S 1991 parts book. D groove is 321622 and H groove is 321951. Listed for Buick Regals (both 2 and 4 door), Chevrolet Lumina, Oldsmobile Cutlass and Pontiac Grand Prix.

 

The valet keys I see are for the double sided series, not the single sided series we are discussing. They are missing a groove so they do not fit into the trunk lock. I've had 1997 and later Park Avenues come with the valet keys and I mounted these in a vise on a mill and cut the missing groove into them so I can use them as keys in every lock on my cars. Not that most any owner never locked the trunk so the inside switch wouldn't work to open the trunk anyway!😨 So why have a valet key for 99% of owners?

  I was referring to the '35 through '66 blanks...thought the octagon head ignition/door blanks are no longer listed?

Tom

[Frank DuVal]

19 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

They are still making the "original" aka B-10, B-11 blanks. I just bought some. Same part number. Octagon head B&S 32318, GM 3694624. Pear head B&S 32319, GM 7002238.

Yes, the 1935 to 1966 blanks, part numbers above. Current production. Now, if you want the true 1935 to 1948 blanks, those are 82114 round and 82116 octagon head.