1940 Century 61C phaeton - Hemmings auction

[JBP]

A friend sent me a link to a Hemmings collection car that was sold on the auction portion of that website a week ago - a 1940 Century convertible sedan. 
 

Found the approach to "reviving" the car a bit weird; clearly there wasn't much of an attachment to it, and it was seemingly rushed out the door with some basic items not addressed (clutch issues, heater and radio "unknown status" - the car was right there, and was driven for a few hundred miles before being sold, but these weren't tried? Come on...).

 

Had a look at the auction results page, and saw the bids and comments from some people who seemed as puzzled as I was by some of it (including @Marty Roth). 

Understand that time was an issue, for whatever reason, but they had time to film a promo, write a few blogs to flog the car, and drive it. Perhaps just me, but thought Hemmings would step up a bit more for one of their own cars, marketed on their own site. 
 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/find-of-the-day-1940-buick-century-sport-phaeton/

[drhach]

I followed the story and watched those YouTube videos. I found it a little disappointing how they did it too. 

[Matt Harwood]

I am consistently and eternally disappointed with almost every single old car I drive. Almost nobody does a good job anymore. Nobody seems to care and everyone puts up with sub-standard results, either because they don't know any better or because they don't feel like spending the money. Virtually all old cars are crap. Just got out of a $200,000 car today, which left me stranded in the middle of a busy intersection this afternoon during a test drive--no warning, it just decided to not have any gears anymore. Showed a different car to an inspector and the battery was dead even though we had just driven the car 20 minutes earlier. Started a high-end custom build to move it around the shop and the engine sputtered and popped despite being fuel injected and stank the place up and barely stayed running. Just a few more piles of crap that I have to fix because someone else didn't do their job. I'm disappointed but not surprised.

 

Old cars are always crap. Expecting these guys with this Buick to somehow not build a piece of crap is not reasonable. In fact, building a car on TV should only be a warning that it is even crappier than normal. You're a fool if you buy an old car and expect it to not be full of problems.

 

I don't know why I can't keep my expectations low so that I'm not constantly disappointed, but every single time these stupid cars sucker me in and get me excited just before crapping their pants. They always do.

[edinmass]

I drive more pre war cars on a monthly basis than 99.9 percent of the people in the  car collector world. I’m guessing 80 percent are “un drivable” by my definition. That’s performance and safety………..19 percent are “sub par” and one percent are good. There are about 20 collectors whose cars I have total faith in and will just take the keys and drive 1000 miles. The rest of them I don’t trust to go around the block. Properly sorted and maintained cars are 100 percent reliable from the mid teens onward. I never carry tools in my cars unless the trip is more than 500 miles. Last year we did 1200 miles in five days on a big pre war high performance car and I never opened the hood. I could see the oil float through the hood doors. If I even think a car has a problem I simply won’t drive it. It’s easy to fix a car in the garage that has A/C and proper tools and equipment. Fixing thing on the side of the road SUCKS!

 

Do it right, do it once, and then forget about it. 

[JBP]

@Matt Harwood and @edinmass both make good points, and you're both in a situation where your "hobby" is also your business. 
 

Having followed Matt's "American Horror Story: Lincoln K"  thread(s) and seeing Ed's posts from the high-end shows and venues (along with posts from many other restorers/hobbyists/collectors on here) are spurs for me to learn more and do better as a car caretaker. It was just a bit deflating to see a rare model like that Century handled in the manner it was by a group which was started to boost the hobby and help preserve some of these cars. 
 

(But I also admit my prejudice; if it had been a make I don't really follow or care much about, it's likely I wouldn't have posted)

 

Ed: I was emailing with a friend at the Huntington and he said there was an incident a week ago where Security had to remove a man from the ornamental gardens, as he was caught attempting to shape one of the bonsai trees into the Pierce-Arrow Archer. 
 

Just sayin'. 

[drhach]

I guess I should restate that i was disappointed in how Hemming's did it. I suppose I expected more from them as an organization. It's one thing when a person or a group don't know any better. But their negligence seemed so willful. 

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, drhach said:

I guess I should restate that i was disappointed in how Hemming's did it. I suppose I expected more from them as an organization. It's one thing when a person or a group don't know any better. But their negligence seemed so willful. 

If you thought the auction was disappointing, you should’ve experienced showing a car at their “Concours”.

[Brian_Heil]

Had a delightful day yesterday touring with 3 local car buddies.  The weather was too nice to stay home. Got an email the evening before of the planned outing. 
 

111 total mile jaunt with lunch in Gregory, Michigan and of course ice cream down the road in Hell, Michigan.  Gotta have ice cream in Hell. By the way, my late mother was correct, the road to Hell is paved. 
 

To be able to have an antique car ready and waiting with only a check of the fluids and tires the night before is a wonderful thing.  The other cars ran just as well. 

[EmTee]

10 minutes ago, Brian_Heil said:

By the way, my late mother was correct, the road to Hell is paved. 

Are they still using 'good intentions'? 

[neil morse]

2 hours ago, Brian_Heil said:

By the way, my late mother was correct, the road to Hell is paved. 

😅 Thank you, that really got a laugh out of me!

[deac]

In my travels with old cars it takes time, not days or weeks but months, to really know what you have just bought. I don't care what the seller told about how great the car is, always assume the seller is lying!  Quick little videos like one in this thread do not show the reality of doing the work on these cars. I have reached a point that when I have done the needed repairs and maintenance and I have lived with the car for many months I can't sell them because there is just too much that I have put into them.   

[edinmass]

Recently I test drove a big pre war car, and recommended some service work to be done at the owners choice of shops. The shop said the car was fine……….it was not. And no where near close. Simply put……the shop has no clue, and they are doing about 20 frame off restorations currently.

[Matt Harwood]

21 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Recently I test drove a big pre war car, and recommended some service work to be done at the owners choice of shops. The shop said the car was fine……….it was not. And no where near close. Simply put……the shop has no clue, and they are doing about 20 frame off restorations currently.

 

Given this information, and the fact that most cars aren't right, and most people don't seem to care, I keep wondering--am I the one with unreasonable expectations for what an old car can be? 

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

...I keep wondering--am I the one with unreasonable expectations for what an old car can be? 

No, I think the explanation is most people have no idea what to expect.  Unless they grew up in a family with one, they have no frame of reference.  Some people simply presume that since the car isn't fuel injected and has points & a condenser, it must drive like a tractor.  So, the expectation is too low...

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

What is TRUTH

? 

 

 I just, about six weeks ago,  completed a 4500+ mile round trip  in what some of you would not go around the block in.  Was it right?  For ME, yes.  Problem free? Nope.  Wouldn't  have it any other way. 

  Some of you folks worry too much. Some spend more on tweaking, tuning, "dialing in" a car to  "tour" with than I have spent on my car the entire time [ from 2008 ] I have ENJOYED it .  

 

 To each his own.  Your way is RIGHT for you, my way is right for me.

 

  Ben

[Dr B]

On 9/3/2023 at 4:24 PM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Given this information, and the fact that most cars aren't right, and most people don't seem to care, I keep wondering--am I the one with unreasonable expectations for what an old car can be? 

No, I do not believe you have unreasonable expectations. This is as true for old cars as for everything else in life.  I believe it is reasonable to want things "right". But as you know better than many, now a day (or maybe always) that takes effort because we are usually presented with "barely acceptable" at best.  It takes real effort to make sure the thing is "right".  I have spent way too much time banging my head to make sure the thing (whatever it is) is right. My wife says "he's on another crusade". What's right is right. I won't believe otherwise.

 

Robert

Edited September 6 by Dr B (see edit history)

[Daves1940Buick56S]

It took me almost 5 years to get my 1940 56S to where I wanted it. I knew going in that my lower purchase price was going to mean having to do a lot of work. I don't think my expectations were too high - I just wanted it to be a reliable driver that likely wont strand me, and I achieved that. Starts up instantly even in winter. All stock engine with the sole exception of putting on a WCD carb. Still 6v with a points ignition.

Since I learned to drive on 1960s bangers I was prepared for manual steering and brakes, bias ply tires, low relative power, and a floaty ride. It also helped that I "fixed up" a clapped out 1953 41D when I was 19.

Edited September 6 by Daves1940Buick56S (see edit history)

[kgreen]

Experiencing the moment now as I am taking weeks to get my brakes correct.  Install, uninstall, repeat.  I'm having trouble getting the shoes to fit the drum; might be the fault of Chinese repop shoes.  It took an hour to install the oil presssure line from the gage to the engine the other night making sure the routing was correct and that I didn't kink the line.  Took a full day to wire the trunk using original connectors and routing the wire properly.  It helps that I am not facing a self imposed deadline, but if I took shortcuts I could finish my project much earlier than it appears to be the case at this point.  In flight school they called it "get there itus" suggesting that ignoring the process could be fatal.

[nat]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:10 PM, edinmass said:

I never carry tools in my cars unless the trip is more than 500 miles.

     I keep tools in my cars in case someone with a modern contraption needs roadside help.

On 9/1/2023 at 11:03 PM, neil morse said:

By the way, my late mother was correct, the road to Hell is paved. 

      And the road to heaven is always under construction.

[trimacar]

As to setting up a car correctly, it can be done, and early cars made reliable AS THEY WERE WHEN NEW.

 

If a car was hard to start in the showroom, how many would have sold? As mentioned, people use the excuse “oh, they were always like that” instead of fixing the problem.

 

A local metal working friend of mine bought a ratty Model T touring a few years ago.  Keeping body ratty, he had a T expert restore the running gear.

 

He then proceeded to drive it from Virginia to California, and back, with virtually no issues.  Again, that’s what these old cars could do when new.  How many antique car owners now are afraid to venture more than a few miles from home……

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, trimacar said:

As to setting up a car correctly, it can be done, and early cars made reliable AS THEY WERE WHEN NEW.

 

If a car was hard to start in the showroom, how many would have sold? As mentioned, people use the excuse “oh, they were always like that” instead of fixing the problem.

 

A local metal working friend of mine bought a ratty Model T touring a few years ago.  Keeping body ratty, he had a T expert restore the running gear.

 

He then proceeded to drive it from Virginia to California, and back, with virtually no issues.  Again, that’s what these old cars could do when new.  How many antique car owners now are afraid to venture more than a few miles from home……

 

This.   I have a young friend (in his 20s) that drives his Model T from Michigan to Hershey every fall.   

 

If you don't drive them, push them, break them and fix them you will always be afraid to leave your driveway.  

[drhach]

I read a great book a few years ago. It's called "Daisy's diaries". It's a travelogue by a guy who decided to tour the English countryside on a vintage motorcycle. The abiding theme is that the more he maintains it and gets it in spec according to the manufacturer's design, the more reliable the bike becomes. It's really an interesting evolution of reliability. It definitely flies in the fce of the notion that old vehicles are not trustworthy.

[28Buick]

Not Hemmings, but BAT. What about the 1927 Master Six auction that ended yesterday?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1927-buick-master-six-sedan-3/

[60FlatTop]

The last time I carried a load of tools ans spare parts with me was in 1977. I was 28 years old and my wife and I drove my '71 Ford LTD convertible out to Strongsville, Ohio for the Buick Nationals. After visiting the show, subscribing to Skinned Knuckles Magazine through a vendor, and buying all the back issues of SK we headed for Dearborn, Michigan for the Ford Museum.

I realized I carried all that stuff because other people recommended doing it. Many of them strongly recommended never being an arm's length away from a fire extinguisher. I think that fire extinguisher idea was probably a good one, not so much because of the cars but the kind of things old men do.

 

Anyway, I never carried tools again. Today I would just poke the key in any of my cars and head cross country.

 

You know, I live about 1,000 feet from our village library. I stop in and check with the director once in a while. He tells me circulation of fiction books far exceeds non-fiction. That makes me feel like I have an edge on things.