Auto Upholstery Shops, a thing of the past?

[marcapra]

I'm getting to the point on my 48 DeSoto where I will need the services of an upholsterer.  Since LeBarron Bonney went out of business a few years ago, I wonder if that is a signal of things to come.  SMS I think is still in business selling material, but what about labor.  Are upholstery shops getting to be scarce?  Can someone recommend a upholstery guy who is experienced in old cars in the southern Califorina area?  

[rocketraider]

With the active Lowrider scene there it shouldn't be a problem finding a competent upholsterer. Their taste may run a little different but a good cut and stitch person can duplicate factory as easily as full custom.

[3makes]

I'm glad you think so.

[EmTee]

I was going to say that of all places in the US, I would think SoCal would have a fair number of independent upholstery shops.  Check out a nearby Cars-n-Coffee and talk to the owner of any cars that you see with good looking interiors.  Hopefully that will generate some leads...

[Bryan G]

The market has changed; I was just thinking of shops I've worked with. 

#1-Still in business, will work on anything, but pricey. Quoted me $5000 to do the seats on my $4500 car, plus materials. Must be busy.

#2-Hung up their hat during Covid, never opened back up.

#3-Has a backlog of custom work, that pays $$$$$. No time for junk like mine.

#4-Friendly, cheap, but a total hack who got run out of town for not paying his rent.

#5-Keeps a large crew busy doing late model insurance work. I think they still do some older stuff but it can't be cheap.

 

I keep forgetting that this isn't 1993 anymore, and you can't get a seat redone for $315. I bought an old heavy-duty sewing machine. Maybe I'll learn to use it someday.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

In the movies they went down to Mexico

[Studemax]

There are multiple busy shops here in Wichita doing restorations, hot rods, and boats. They aren't going anywhere.

[marcapra]

7 hours ago, Dave Mellor NJ said:

In the movies they went down to Mexico

Yes, back in the 80s, my brother drove his 65 Dodge Dart to Tijuana, Mexico, and he said the various "talleres" were all aggressively fighting for his business.  I remember at our local WPC club, a member suggested doing an old car tour of Baja California.  One older member who owned a 41 Plymouth convertible said he would never take his joy across the border.  I agree with that view even more now.  If you took your old car south of the border, you would be lucky if the policia didn't conviscate it.  A couple of years ago, a friend of mine referred me to an old retired upholstery guy who still did some work on the side.  I hope I can find his name and number.  My DeSoto needs one seat reupholstered, a headliner, door panels, and side panels.  

[John348]

Dealing with the years of Chevrolet I am into, it is unavoidable but not to cross paths with many of the Lowrider guys from California, and they never expressed a problem with "trim" shops. 

 

Is it a question that nobody does it, or that nobody does it for the price you are willing to pay? I could reach out ask the few guys I keep in contact with for some contacts. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by John348 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

If you are young with half a brain and good with your hands you can make a fortune in Upholstery.    All the guys I know are retired and the one young guy who apprenticed with one of them is being flown around the country by billionaires to do their work.    This is not atypical to all the trades that support our hobby.

[60FlatTop]

32 minutes ago, John348 said:

Is it a question that nobody does it, or that nobody does it for the price you are willing to pay?

I am with you on that comment. I think I first made that observation around 1963 and it resurfaces frequently.

 

There are three good shops near me where I know I could get a single seat done in the next two weeks. If I provide the fabric and bring in the piece they will do a seat bottom for $500, usually an extra $150-200 to replace the foam. They make straight seams.

 

A headliner or panels I would try myself.  If they ended up redoing my crappy work we'd have a good laugh as I paid.

 

I actually got one "patch job" done and she hinted that I claim I did it myself.

[jp1gt]

I used to help my dad do 100 pt cars in Poway CA. He had a big wheel, not a motor to run the sewing machine to make the stitches perfect. Unfortunately I was interested in muscle cars at the time and did not pay enough attention to details. From the cars I helped him with I could not afford his prices. I am in SoCal looking for a decent, not perfect upholstery/conv top job also.

[alsancle]

I can say that for me, you can’t find a qualified upholsterer at any price.  I guess the loaded word is “qualified“.

[Guest]

Down in the FL keys when it comes to cushions/covers/etc for boats you will wait in line to be shocked at the price and walk away with it done but no other option.  A simple rectangle cushion or two will set you back many hundreds and you may wait months!

[Rusty_OToole]

This gets back to a discussion we had a few weeks ago. Someone asked about a young person who wished to get involved with working on old cars. I suggested she look into doing upholstery work. Less damaging to your health than bodywork, painting or mechanical work, and good demand and good pay. If you have your own shop you can make bank. I know this because I gave my brother the same advice and helped him set up his first shop.

 

I got some criticism at the time but this thread seems to confirm that I was right, at least about the supply vs demand, and the chance to make money.

[60FlatTop]

8 minutes ago, jp1gt said:

I am in SoCal looking for a decent, not perfect upholstery/conv top job also.

My comment about the upholsterer suggesting I claim I did the job myself comes right in line here. Every self appointed concours judge will ask who did that job into perpetuity.

 

You have to convince them you are truly sincere when you promise not to tell who did it.

[trimacar]

5 minutes ago, jp1gt said:

I used to help my dad do 100 pt cars in Poway CA. He had a big wheel, not a motor to run the sewing machine to make the stitches perfect. Unfortunately I was interested in muscle cars at the time and did not pay enough attention to details. From the cars I helped him with I could not afford his prices. I am in SoCal looking for a decent, not perfect upholstery/conv top job also.

I learned a lot from a master trimmer who sewed one stitch at a time, powered machine though.

 

He taught me about slowing machine (pulleys) which can now be done electronically.

 

He stated if every stitch perfect the job is perfect.

 

Yes on statement hard to find a trimmer who does things correctly.

 

The other issue is that upholstery is labor intensive,skilled labor is expensive, and it’s usually the last thing people do in a restoration (when there’s no money left!).

[Alex D.]

When I got a quote of 18 to 20K “TO START” and one year out for my 32 Cadillac, that would put me way over the top on what I could afford. I bought a Juki walking foot sewing machine and going to give it my best shot. So far, the headliner has turned out great and the rear quarters have been challenging. In the end it will not be a Pebble Beach or close to a hundred-point car, but I can proudly say that I did that, as in the rest of the car.   Built, not bought.

 

I may not know what I am doing, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t get it right.

[29 Chandler]

11 hours ago, EmTee said:

I was going to say that of all places in the US, I would think SoCal would have a fair number of independent upholstery shops.  Check out a nearby Cars-n-Coffee and talk to the owner of any cars that you see with good looking interiors.  Hopefully that will generate some leads...

We went to a shop that has been in business for decades now here in SoCal. Seems most of their clientele are from the low rider crowd. Lots of custom touches and nice work from what we saw. We went in their based upon a recommendation from a friend. Talked to them at length about making a top cover for our 1914 Chandler. I have pictures of what they looked like when new and brought my car down so they could take all the necessary measurements. In the end we got a quote of about $5k to make the cover. We are still looking for a shop...

[NewOldWood]

I've dealt with three upholsterers in the last three years, two of them well known and very expensive and one lesser known local shop. I wouldn't go back to any of them. In two cases I had to redo some of the work my self and the third required repair work by the paint guy. Well known chrome shop, discussed on the phone chroming some items and polishing some stainless parts. Hand delivered in two seperate piles and discussed again. They chromed everything. Another chrome shop ruined two pieces of custom made brass trim that I had to figure out how to reproduce. These are just recent examples, but it's not just a recent problem. In the future I have decided that I will not be dealing with any third parties. No painters, upholsterers, chrome shops, restorers of sub assemblies of any kind. I don't need the work and I dont want the headaches.

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

and it’s usually the last thing people do in a restoration

Not to get too far off topic but I lean toward the idea that the last thing on the agenda is legally putting the car in their own name through the Department of Motor Vehicles.

 

Just imagining how much money may be tied up in cars people don't legally own right at this moment.

[Rusty_OToole]

Flat top you are so right. When I get a car the first thing I do is register it in my name. This saves a lot of hassles in the future, and you never know what changes may be made to tighten up registration.  The only time I wouldn't bother is if it is an out and out junker with no chance of ever being put on the road.

[plymouthcranbrook]

13 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Not to get too far off topic but I lean toward the idea that the last thing on the agenda is legally putting the car in their own name through the Department of Motor Vehicles.

 

Just imagining how much money may be tied up in cars people don't legally own right at this moment.

A mistake I made with my 52 Plymouth.  I waited almost 10 years to do the change on mine as I was told after I bought it that getting plates later could be a problem here in Il. When I did do it a couple of helpful DMV employees made it painless but they suggested not to do that again.

 

And regarding the upholstery issue, the more I read threads like this the less annoyed by the somewhat shabby condition of my Plymouths interior I become and the more comfortable the cushion I sit on is.

[DonMicheletti]

The old saying, "Time is money" holds true here. Upholstering takes time to do correctly.

Think. What pay would you like to do the work as your primary source of income plus paying for space, utilities, etc?

It isnt 1980 any more, and the hobby has become expensive.

I am in Northern California and there are good upholstery shops (plural), but they are definitely not inexpensive.

[46 woodie]

The thing about LeBaron-Bonney is that they fabricated interiors for Model A and V-8 Ford's, that were fairly accurate and fairly economical. They were done in a way that someone like me could do a reasonable job at doing an interior and having the car pass judging with good results. I have done 5 LeBarron-Bonney interiors and all came out very nice. To do a Model A or V-8 now requires the owner to do the research on the original interior and work in conjunction with the upholstery shop, all the things that LB did in a kit. I have found that some people in my area just tell the upholsterer "make it look original", but if you want your car judged, that won't work. That being said, I cannot believe the quotes some people are getting ($10,000 or more) for a Model A Coupe interior.

[AzBob]

4 minutes ago, 46 woodie said:

The thing about LeBaron-Bonney is that they fabricated interiors for Model A and V-8 Ford's, that were fairly accurate and fairly economical. They were done in a way that someone like me could do a reasonable job at doing an interior and having the car pass judging with good results. I have done 5 LeBarron-Bonney interiors and all came out very nice. To do a Model A or V-8 now requires the owner to do the research on the original interior and work in conjunction with the upholstery shop, all the things that LB did in a kit. I have found that some people in my area just tell the upholsterer "make it look original", but if you want your car judged, that won't work. That being said, I cannot believe the quotes some people are getting ($10,000 or more) for a Model A Coupe interior.

 

For Model A and Model T upholstery, there is Classtique Upholstery. Model A  https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/

Mike of Classtique usually has a booth at most of the popular swap meets.

 

Model A Coupe interior upholstery prices.

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

I always worked with the interior shop. In the building/restoration process you will at some point have the car fully assembled, bolted together to check for fit. I would always schedule the car to go to the upholstery shop at this point. Car fits, in bare metal. And it is the perfect time for an interior guy/gal to mock up an interior. No dancing around finished cars. No worry about chips or scratches. Door panel, kick panels and anything else can be pre made. Backing or mounting points for center consoles and other things can be welded in. Have all of the pieces pre made, only needing to be wrapped when the car comes back to them finished. Saves a lot of time and headaches. This is more on the custom end. But it really worked great. Just a matter of scheduling with people. Set the pre made pieces aside. Lots of reasons it is difficult to find quality shops in any trade. I wonder why? Owning a small business is not what it used to be. More then happy to share experiences with owning a business in Idaho. So others can try to avoid what I was put through. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

[TTR]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:01 AM, rocketraider said:

With the active Lowrider scene there it shouldn't be a problem finding a competent upholsterer. Their taste may run a little different but a good cut and stitch person can duplicate factory as easily as full custom.

I take it you don’t have much firsthand experience with restorations, since your comment is like claiming any body & paint person/shop is fully capable of painting a vintage car to OEM quality or any mechanic/repair shop can rebuild any prewar car mechanical component/system.

 

I have probably dozen+ upholstery shops within couple of stone throws from mine + countless more within 30 minute drive and while most of them seem to have a steady flow of antique/classic/custom/hot rod/etc cars getting interior jobs done by them, I wouldn’t have them make handle grips for a used wheel barrow.

 

While there are likely thousands or more upholstery shops here in SoCal and I’ve looked into all “highly regarded” ones in past 10+ years with the cost not being a concern, last major interior “restoration” I needed to get done, I had to send the dash, door panels, center console and seats to Europe to get them done “correctly” and with correct materials. Rest, with exception of cabin & trunk carpet binding, I did myself.

 

But basically, like anything else in life, it comes down to expectations and mine (& my clients) are likely much higher than 99.9% other enthusiasts (my PB Roadster hot rod interior not necessarily withstanding, but that too is a different approach/story)

Edited July 16, 2023 by TTR (see edit history)

[chistech]

I started in this hobby just under ten years ago. Living in Massachusetts I was just an hour and a half from Lebaron and Bonney. I purchased a 31 Chevy as a basket case but it was complete with a new LB interior kit. After doing all the mechanical work and finding virtually no one willing to install the interior kit, I tackled it myself after being convinced to do so y a few fellow chevy owners on the VCCA forum. I was very impressed with the materials of the kit and with the supplied instructions. I originally knew nothing about installing interiors in these old cars but learned pretty quickly as I am a mechanical minded person. 
     The headliner and all panels went in perfectly but was hesitant to attempt my seat cushions and seat frame. I found an upholstery show willing to do it and he did a very nice job on the front seat frame and cushion/backrest. He did complain though that he didn’t like the material and that it was a tough job then said he didn’t have time to do the rear seat. I paid him $500 to do the front three pieces and went looking for another shop to do the rear. I found another old time shop willing to do the rear and that cost me $300. While both seats are good with the front being better than the rear, there are things I noticed, by looking at photos of other antique cars, that could have been done better. Things like padding the cushions better including the lower front edge so it doesn’t “cave” in from being pulled tight and the tops of the backrest ant each pleat being nice and rounded rather than being pulled down flat then tacked. 
     I then had a VCCA friend ask me to do his car and I decided to do the LB interior completely by myself. From headliner to seats I completely installed the kit. I concentrated on the areas mentioned above to make the seats more comfortable plus much more pleasing to the eye as far as the shape of the cushions when stuffed then tacked. It was then I realized I can do this and do it as well as a reputable upholstery shop. I started doing more cars by word of mouth and soon ended up being a “recommended “ LB installation shop. I was even asked by LB to be an early chevy tech advisor for their customers with questions. 
    I probably installed the last, or one of the last interior kits they produced in my own ‘32 Oldsmobile DCR. This includes the convertible roof that I had never done. The DCR is a convertible coupe or cabriolet model and the roof is quite involved, especially for a novice. Using the supplied instructions and doing my research I installed my interior and roof. I used original techniques for the installation and the some modern ones. I used a staple gun for some of the original tacking but still used tacks for some things like attaching the heavy support webbing to the bows. Instead of using glue or spray adhesive on the corner pads, I used the old school hand stitching that was originally done as I don’t always trust glue. I did use SS staples on the roof also to prevent rusting of any kind. I even developed my own way of padding the mid bow to make my roof lay flatter than it would have originally. I spoke with a retired trimmer that I sent pictures of my padding technique to who at one time had worked with LB and he said that he was impressed with how nice the roof looked. I will say with patience and plenty of research, an interior can be installed correctly and properly. My Olds has won many awards and many people have commented on the interior and roof installation. Of course this was installing kit and not doing any sewing other that hand work.

      So now this brings me to my new dilemma. No more LB but I’ve still got GM cars being sent to me for restoration including another Oldsmobile DCR. The owner would like me to completely finish the car so that means an interior and roof are needed. I’m thinking my own car will supply the patterns and the seats are fairly easy as they’re just flat leather or vinyl. The panels are just flat with the doors requiring a single row of stitching around the perimeter. I’m fortunate to live in an area that teams with seamstresses as New England was a central location of the industry at one time and there’s still companies making hand sewn items. One of my customers makes fine linens and towels with over forty sewing machine stations. I’m friends with the maintenance manager who is also an expert sewing machine technician and he told me he can easily supply me with a walking foot type machine. So I will probably be investing in a machine and start doing upholstery fabrication on my customers cars. I wanted to avoid getting into another aspect of or hobby but outside vendors, or lack of good ones are forcing me to do so. While my work won’t be cheap, my pricing is fair, it will be up to my standards,  and I do keep my standards high. Nothing goes out my door that I wouldn’t want for myself and people who have me do work for them know that. 
     I have always recommended to people to try to do what they can and many I know have succeeded from wood to interiors. The one thing I don’t tolerate is people who complain that the price is too much when they haven’t done the work or don’t do quality work. 

[dodge28]

Trimmers are hard to find now . So to are dynamo rewinders. They are all retired. On my 1928 Dodge Senior  I removed the covers and horse hair padding, all in good shape . The reason for doing this was to de rust and repair the wood frame. I took the front seat to this trimmer who advertises partial work. He kept the seat and material for a year , did nothing. So I took my stuff back. Bought a book on how to do automotive trim( several out there) and a Kobe(self oiling) Industrial sewing machine and a motor , the speed can be dialed. I got mohair from the person who bought out Le Baron. I made lots of mistakes, ripped it a part and tried again. but I was consistent and persistent. I sewed the headliner myself ( herring bone stitch) so the thread will not show underneath. I had previously sent the head liner to a company north west and paid with Visa. Then they will not answer my calls. So I cancelled my Visa. They returned the old headliner sample back. No person is too old to learn. The sewing machine dealer is helpful getting you the correct tools for the job. 

[Walt G]

Please keep up the comments about your experiences - we are all learning a lot from what you have had to endure to restore a "used car"  ( yes that is in reality what we spend $ on - Used Cars)

[m-mman]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:25 PM, marcapra said:

Can someone recommend a upholstery guy who is experienced in old cars in the southern Califorina area?  

Yes.  Jacks auto upholstery in Tarzana.  Old time upholsterer, one man type shop.  Go there, meet him and make a future reservation now.  
 

www.Jack’s auto interiors.com.  

[chistech]

17 minutes ago, dodge28 said:

Trimmers are hard to find now . So to are dynamo rewinders. They are all retired. On my 1928 Dodge Senior  I removed the covers and horse hair padding, all in good shape . The reason for doing this was to de rust and repair the wood frame. I took the front seat to this trimmer who advertises partial work. He kept the seat and material for a year , did nothing. So I took my stuff back. Bought a book on how to do automotive trim( several out there) and a Kobe(self oiling) Industrial sewing machine and a motor , the speed can be dialed. I got mohair from the person who bought out Le Baron. I made lots of mistakes, ripped it a part and tried again. but I was consistent and persistent. I sewed the headliner myself ( herring bone stitch) so the thread will not show underneath. I had previously sent the head liner to a company north west and paid with Visa. Then they will not answer my calls. So I cancelled my Visa. They returned the old headliner sample back. No person is too old to learn. The sewing machine dealer is helpful getting you the correct tools for the job. 

Who bought out Lebaron and Bonney? That is the million dollar question.

[John348]

35 minutes ago, chistech said:

Who bought out Lebaron and Bonney? That is the million dollar question.

I thought SMS did, or they purchased the patterns? LB also purchased Hampton Coach many years ago who specialized in pre 1954 Chevrolet interiors, at least 30 years ago

[Buffalowed Bill]

Any kind to response to this thread is going to be antidotal. It's going to depend on a persons location, willingness to travel, quality of work required and the time someone is willing to wait.

 

I have an upholster that I trusted implicitly to do quality work. He has gone virtually 100% to street rod, custom projects. I've always believed he was a friend. This thread makes me wonder if he would do another restoration quality job for me? 

 

If Paul wouldn't or couldn't do that last concourse job for me, I think that I have a local network of friends in the restoration business who could point me in the right direction. I'm pretty sure that I could come up with what I would need though.

[TAKerry]

The upholstery for my car comes in a 'pre made kit'. Seats still need to be taken to the frame, then the new covers hog ringed on, BUT the 'covers' are pre made. I thought the nearly $2k price for the seats alone was ridiculous but after reading through this I feel lucky? Will do so myself this time around. I did the back seat on my 77 car and ran out of time. Found an old friend to do the fronts for me. He was retired from Chrysler where he worked in the upholster department. Didnt charge me a thing, but I did slip him a few bucks.

[rocketraider]

4 hours ago, TTR said:

I take it you don’t have much firsthand experience with restorations, since your comment is like claiming any body & paint person/shop is fully capable of painting a vintage car to OEM quality or any mechanic/repair shop can rebuild any prewar car mechanical component/system.

 

I have probably dozen+ upholstery shops within couple of stone throws from mine + countless more within 30 minute drive and while most of them seem to have a steady flow of antique/classic/custom/hot rod/etc cars getting interior jobs done by them, I wouldn’t have them make handle grips for a used wheel barrow.

 

While there are likely thousands or more upholstery shops here in SoCal and I’ve looked into all “highly regarded” ones in past 10+ years with the cost not being a concern, last major interior “restoration” I needed to get done, I had to send the dash, door panels, center console and seats to Europe to get them done “correctly” and with correct materials. Rest, with exception of cabin & trunk carpet binding, I did myself.

 

But basically, like anything else in life, it comes down to expectations and mine (& my clients) are likely much higher than 99.9% other enthusiasts (my PB Roadster hot rod interior not necessarily withstanding, but that too is a different approach/story)

You're right. I have absolutely less than zero experience in car restoration. The four Oldsmobiles got their 950+ out of 1000 points OCA awards with zero input, research or hands on work and effort by me.

 

I'm starting to think that, even as an AACA Life Member and tireless promoter of the group to new old car owners, I am no longer a good fit. Not snobbish enough...

[Digger914]

20 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

The upholstery for my car comes in a 'pre made kit'. Seats still need to be taken to the frame, then the new covers hog ringed on, BUT the 'covers' are pre made. I thought the nearly $2k price for the seats alone was ridiculous but after reading through this I feel lucky? Will do so myself this time around. I did the back seat on my 77 car and ran out of time. Found an old friend to do the fronts for me. He was retired from Chrysler where he worked in the upholster department. Didnt charge me a thing, but I did slip him a few bucks.

Nothing made by man is perfect and things can happen when stretching upholstery, before you go spending a couple of grand for new skins find out if repair materials are available. Seams can split, fabric can tear and you can always slice your hand on a sharp edge and matching dye can be important because cleaning blood can pull color from your nice new covers. I've gotten a couple of pre-made cover sets with varied degrees of satisfaction and no matter how good it looks, you don't know what you got until you've had it for a while. Spending 10 to 20% more than the lowest price for the identical product from a supplier that takes care of problems could prevent the kind of problem that I had with a company named auto seat replacement.

 

Asking about potential suppliers here is better than reading online reviews. Also learning a bit about auto upholstery will help you overcome most of the small problems that always seem to come with the job.

 

 

[Tom Boehm]

Let's just take a step back and relax. This is an informative thread with good insights.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

The upholstery for my car comes in a 'pre made kit'. Seats still need to be taken to the frame, then the new covers hog ringed on, BUT the 'covers' are pre made. I thought the nearly $2k price for the seats alone was ridiculous but after reading through this I feel lucky? Will do so myself this time around. I did the back seat on my 77 car and ran out of time. Found an old friend to do the fronts for me. He was retired from Chrysler where he worked in the upholster department. Didnt charge me a thing, but I did slip him a few bucks.

 

I assume the TA guys can give you good feedback on which kit is the best?    20 years ago I used a kit for one of my mustangs and it came out great.  I did have a professional upholstery guy do the installation though.