Non PC cars of the past

[PWN]

I give you the Studebaker Scotsman! 29 mpg! Ain't nothing cheap about that!

 

Being of Scottish origin (the original NeSmith [Naesmyth in 1500s] came to the US from Edinburgh in the early 1790s) I resemble this smirch and am kinda proud of it.

 

The Scotsman is an automobile series that was produced by the Studebaker Packard Corporation of South Bend, Indiana, during model years 1957 and 1958, and a low-priced series of pickup trucks in 1958 and 1959. The name was based on the reputation of Scottish frugality, the cars being built for function and minimalism.^[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker_Scotsman

 

https://blog.consumerguide.com/favorite-car-ads-1958-studebaker-scotsman/

So, to hit that compelling base price, here’s what did not come as standard on the 1958 Studebaker Scotsman:

• Radio
• Arm rests
• Passenger-side sun visor
• Cigarette lighter
• Dome light
• Power brakes
• Sound insulations
• Chrome
• Contemporary powertrain

Worse, most of these items were not available even as options.

Photo Feature: 1954 Studebaker Commander DeLuxe Conestoga

Studebaker Sweepstakes Six engine

Of all of these “omissions,” I am most offended by the Chrome. Instead, the Scotsman featured silver-painted accents, including a stamped single-piece grille. Look at the ad, however, and you’ll see light reflecting off the grille trim of the 2-door model. That detail is less an omission, and more like actual fraud.

The Studebaker “Sweepstake Six,” standard in the Scotsman models, featured dated flat-head design and was good for just 101 horsepower. The engine did enjoy a reputation for reliability, however, and was easy on the gas, something Scotsman buyers probably appreciated. A V8 engine was available for extra cost.

As things worked out, the Scotsman line lasted for just two models years, with a substantial base-price increase for 1959 to $1925. Roughly 30,000 Scotsman models were sold over the lineup’s two-year stint, not a bad showing, but it’s unlikely Studebaker made much money on the budget-priced vehicles.

The Scotsman pickup was replaced by the Studebaker Champ for 1960. The new truck enjoyed continued value pricing, a thing which truck buyers—then mostly farmers and commercial operators—were likely drawn to. Also, as trucks of the era were famously bereft of features, advertising the Champ was likely less a sin of omission.

*We apologize for our role in perpetuating this stereotype. Besides, if my dad is any indication, it’s the Germans that are the real misers.

Listen to the Consumer Guide Car Stuff Podcast

[PWN]

Only men become affluent? Probably true for the time.

 

Even a women can drive it? Dang!

 

This is an add for my Chandler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R W Burgess]

11 minutes ago, PWN said:

Only men become affluent? Probably true for the time.

 

Even a women can drive it? Dang!

 

This is an add for my Chandler.

 

 

 

*

*

White walled tires!!!!  Who would have believed that???

[TerryB]

Chandler ads prominently had women drivers featured in them.  I framed this one.

 

[Gary_Ash]

Studebaker may have stopped using the Scotsman name, but they kept making the stripped models, mostly for fleet use.  I have a 1963 Wagonaire Standard that is a Scotsman equivalent, six cylinder (112 hp), 3 speed, no overdrive.  What didn't you get in a Standard?:

 

no passenger side sun visor

no glove box door or lock, just a flip-up lid

no clock and chrome bezel deleted

no carpets, only rubber floor mats

no exterior trim

arm rests deleted

no sliding roof in Wagonaire (sliding roof optional extra)

 

[JamesR]

The other politically incorrect Studebaker was the Dictator of the 1930's. As I've said before to old car fans..."Be careful when you tell people you like Dictators from the 1930's!" 😄

 

At one time the word "Dictator" wasn't quite as sinister as it is today. Nowadays, it's synonymous with "tyrant", but it meant something different back in the early days of the Roman Republic, and I think that's the vibe that Studebaker was trying to capture when they named their car. In the early 20th century, ordinary people were more connected to classical art and history, so they probably understood the context.

Edited June 9, 2023 by JamesR (see edit history)

[bryankazmer]

13 minutes ago, JamesR said:

The other politically incorrect Studebaker was the Dictator of the 1930's. As I've said before to old car fans..."Be careful when you tell people you like Dictators from the 1930's!" 😄

 

At one time the word "Dictator" wasn't quite as sinister as it is today. Nowadays, it's synonymous with "tyrant", but it meant something different back in the early days of the Roman Republic, and I think that's vibe that Studebaker was trying to capture when they named their car.

At least before the time of Sulla and Julius Caesar, "Dictator" was a person brought in during time of crisis to save the day, then voluntarily surrender their power.  Cincinnatus and Fabius were dictators.

[bryankazmer]

Dodge got grief for the Demon.

[JamesR]

Yes, Cinncinnatus was a considered a paragon of civic virtue for many centuries, mostly because of how he fulfilled his role/duties as a dictator.

Edited June 9, 2023 by JamesR (see edit history)

[PWN]

31 minutes ago, R W Burgess said:

*

*

White walled tires!!!!  Who would have believed that???

Is that unusual for the period?

I bought some WWs although I think the black may look better. But I wanted to emulated the add.

[R W Burgess]

8 minutes ago, PWN said:

Is that unusual for the period?

I bought some WWs although I think the black may look better. But I wanted to emulated the add.

You did fine PWN. I just always hear that "they look better with BW"! So, I'm saying, "See you could them them in White!" Ha ha.

[60FlatTop]

My friend, Keck, who was recently featured in Hemmings with his maintained and well traveled '35 Dictator has owned the cheapest of the cheap for nearly 30 years and has been refreshing it enough to make a couple of cautious trips around the country block.

I stopped a few days ago and got this shot. Like my place, the doors were open, lights on, and no one home.

It is a 1951 Champion 6 cylinder Overdrive business coupe, bottom of the line.

 

Frugal is a word that always makes me smile. My first thought is "and how many restaurant condiment packages are you carrying in your pockets?"

 

He should be over within the next couple of weeks to get started on buffing up that original paint. Maybe I will start collecting items for his frugal glove compartment.

[wayne sheldon]

Whitewalls in the 1910s and some of the 1920s were different than what they became in the late 1920s and remained ever since. In the late 1920s, whitewalls became a "touch of flash", or some sort of ostentatious exhibitionism, fads that came and went only to return again, sometimes only a few years later.

For the most part, whitewalls in the 1910s were simply a part of how tires were made. A natural progression from crude handmade tires using mostly natural materials that wound up an off-white shade. Pre1910 tires were weak, blowouts were common, and tires often came loose and simply left the wheel. As efforts to make tires better moved forward, improved materials were used and manufacturing also improved. Along with the competition to make better tires, the outbreak of war in Europe caused material shortages worldwide. This in turn pushed the development of alternate materials both to alleviate shortages and improve reliability. That "natural progression" at this point resulted in the wear area of the tire, the tread, to be made out of tougher and darker materials, and the casing to remain the softer and lighter colored materials. And the "whitewall" tire was borne.

The contrast between the darker tread and the lighter sidewalls of those earlier tires was not so distinctive. Coupled with the dirty roads of the day making the darker tread appear lighter while at the same time making the lighter sidewall appear darker, and the tires really do not show themselves as being whitewalls in most era photographs. But they are there.

As someone that has looked very closely at several thousand era photographs, searching for minor details, I have seen hundreds of era photos that do show the early whitewall tires. Often, one has to look closely to see the whitewall. Once in awhile, one finds a photo where the whitewalls show well.

 

Enough thread drift! Back to more political incorrectness!

 

And, by the way, my ancestry is also part Scottish! Proudly frugal to a fault.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[PWN]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

My friend, Keck, who was recently featured in Hemmings with his maintained and well traveled '35 Dictator has owned the cheapest of the cheap for nearly 30 years and has been refreshing it enough to make a couple of cautious trips around the country block.

I stopped a few days ago and got this shot. Like my place, the doors were open, lights on, and no one home.

It is a 1951 Champion 6 cylinder Overdrive business coupe, bottom of the line.

 

Frugal is a word that always makes me smile. My first thought is "and how many restaurant condiment packages are you carrying in your pockets?"

 

He should be over within the next couple of weeks to get started on buffing up that original paint. Maybe I will start collecting items for his frugal glove compartment.

Thats a neat looking car...I think a case of moonshine under a tarp would be very fitting. 

 

Blasphemy I know, but the 6os Volvo sedans have a similar look.

Edited June 9, 2023 by PWN (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

Chevrolet Confederate

[oldcarfudd]

9 minutes ago, CarNucopia said:

Chevrolet Confederate

Uh, oh!  I hear the sound of swords being drawn from scabbards!

[58L-Y8]

PWN stated:
"As things worked out, the Scotsman line lasted for just two models years, with a substantial base-price increase for 1959 to $1925. Roughly 30,000 Scotsman models were sold over the lineup’s two-year stint, not a bad showing, but it’s unlikely Studebaker made much money on the budget-priced vehicles."

 

The often-maligned 1957-'58 Studebaker Scotsman played a far more critical role in the survival of Studebaker-Packard Corporation in those financially distressed years than is generally understood.  The Scotsman pick-up truck was the only 1959 model to carry the nameplate and trim level, the cars all replaced with Larks.

The following are excerpted from 'Special Interest Autos' June 1984, #81, pages 26-27: 

"The 1957 Scotsman, which was first known as the Champion Scotsman, did not start arriving at Studebaker-Packard dealers until June 1957.  In the short period from its introduction to the end of the 1957 model year production on August 14, 1957, Studebaker-Packard assembled 9,348 Scotsmans. Not a great figure by GM standards, but at S-P it represented 17 percent of the company's total 1957 Studebaker sedan and wagon production.  During the time it was offered, close to 50 percent of all Studebaker sedan and wagon customers were buying Scotsmans!"

For a company struggling for survival, the Scotsman was proving to be one bright spot in generally slow sales for the rest of their model offerings. The idea of basic, no-frills, low-priced transportation finding increasing sales appeal confirmed the decision to begin development of what would become the Lark.  Further in the SIA#81 article, page29:

"During 1958 model year, S-P sold 20,872 Scotsmans. This figure includes Utility Sedans and Panel-Wagons, but not Econ-O-Milers (taxis) and Marshalls. (police-dept-equipped).  Although again not a large figure, it was significant for Studebaker-Packard.  The 1958 Scotsman station wagon with sale of 7,680, was S-P's bestselling 1958 model.  Total Scotsman sales accounted for 46.3 percent of all 1958 Studebaker sedan and wagon sales.  Total sales still lagged behind 1957, and the red ink continued to flow, but without the Scotsman, it would have been much worse."

While its likely S-P made minimal unit profits on the Scotsmans, what its sales enabled were the continuing operations as an automaker during a precarious year of month-to-month financial juggling to fund ongoing operations and the tooling necessary for the Lark.  Without the Scotsman, it is likely S-P would have collapsed before the Lark made it to market.
 

Edited June 10, 2023 by 58L-Y8
syntax corrected and addendum comments (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Can we add the Apperson Big Dick to the list?

 

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, oldcarfudd said:

Uh, oh!  I hear the sound of swords being drawn from scabbards!

🙂😈 

If me ancestors hadn't been bankrupted by Reconstruction and the Depression I'm sure they'd have had a Chevrolet Confederate.

[Rusty_OToole]

In the 1920s Franklin did a series of ads on a western or pioneer theme. One of them showed a prospector panning for gold with the caption "opening a new vein of public favor". In these safety conscious days I can't see a car company talking about opening a vein in their ads.

[Rusty_OToole]

Then there was the Dodge La Femme. I don't know what's with Dodge and Studebaker but they seem to be leading the parade here.

 

[Peter J.Heizmann]

39 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

🙂😈 

If me ancestors hadn't been bankrupted by Reconstruction and the Depression I'm sure they'd have had a Chevrolet Confederate.

…and the Yanks would drive Triumphs.

[Akstraw]

Speaking of not PC, how about the short-lived KRIT automobile, which chose the soon-to-be-despised swastika as their emblem.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Akstraw
Grammar (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

For two thousand years, the swastika was a symbol of good luck and/or prosperity. Recognized as such by several major cultures and religions around the world. It took one maniacal despot about five years to change its image, maybe forever?

Around 1910 when the Krit was being manufactured? Who could have known?

[1935Packard]

Pretty much no car was "pc" by modern standards if we include the advertising, as the advertisers of their day were appealing to particular subsets of the public that had money and the ability to spend it on a car.  An example that comes to mind is this copy from a 1935 Packard Twelve advertisement.  Hard to imagine an appeal today to old money WASP culture... 

 

[Grimy]

2 minutes ago, 1935Packard said:

Pretty much no car was "pc" by modern standards if we include the advertising, as the advertisers of their day were appealing to particular subsets of the public that had money and the ability to spend it on a car.  An example that comes to mind is this copy from a 1935 Packard Twelve advertisement.  Hard to imagine an appeal today to old money WASP culture... 

 

And the 1929 Pierce-Arrow ad headlined and themed "The Pierce-Arrow Sort of People..."  sorry I don't immediately have a digital copy to post.

[PWN]

8 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

For two thousand years, the swastika was a symbol of good luck and/or prosperity. Recognized as such by several major cultures and religions around the world. It took one maniacal despot about five years to change its image, maybe forever?

Around 1910 when the Krit was being manufactured? Who could have known?

I think the Navaho used it extensively. 

 

By the way, my wife owned a jeep Cherokee chief, non PC today. 

[rocketraider]

2 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Pretty much no car was "pc" by modern standards if we include the advertising, as the advertisers of their day were appealing to particular subsets of the public that had money and the ability to spend it on a car.  An example that comes to mind is this copy from a 1935 Packard Twelve advertisement.  Hard to imagine an appeal today to old money WASP culture... 

 

 

2 hours ago, Grimy said:

And the 1929 Pierce-Arrow ad headlined and themed "The Pierce-Arrow Sort of People..."  sorry I don't immediately have a digital copy to post.

Well- that's where the money was and, both old money and nouveau-riche being very susceptible to snob appeal, it made perfect sense to put your ad dollars there in that time and by the standards of the day.

 

Tobacco (and other) advertising was the same way. Think Pall Mall's "wherever particular people congregate". Snobbery sells whether the product is PC or not.

 

What amuses me is that, of all things, pet food advertising is one of the absolute snobbiest things I see these days.

 

It must work.

[Frank DuVal]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:39 PM, PWN said:

So, to hit that compelling base price, here’s what did not come as standard on the 1958 Studebaker Scotsman:

Contemporary powertrain

???? It was a flat head six. Same as American Motors, Chrysler corporation, Willys....etc.....

[30DodgePanel]

Not sure if this one qualifies.

I haven't heard the term Tomboy used for years. 

 

My daughter was a Tomboy for her first six years of life until one day she was holding a bug asking me what they eat. As I was explaining to her what they ate my wife came out onto the patio and screamed like she was being attacked.

 

Needless to say my daughter is deathly afraid of bugs now and is no longer a Tomboy. I never seen it as a derogitory term but some claim it to be. 

 

[30DodgePanel]

22 hours ago, PWN said:

I think the Navaho used it extensively. 

 

First I want to say I love and admire all Jewish people, their history to Jerusalem and firmly believe God will restore them whole in the near future, but surely we can't blame those of Jewish heritage for never accepting it as a encouraging symbol ever again. However, the nazi swastika meaning is far different from the Fylfot and the original swastika symbol and meaning that most tribes used throughout history that date back to the Neolithic period which was far before an evil dictator attempted genecide (which he failed at, by the way). I have Scottish and Blackfoot lineage in my family. Both the Scots and Blackfeet used the symbol and as Wayne S pointed out, it was used for thousands of years by many other pre-Christian religions such as Hindus, Shintoists, Odinists and Druids. Why is that?

 

For those who want to understand more about the history of the Fylfot and it's origin I encourage you to read this book from 1884. Yes, way before the nazi's stole and counterfeited the symbol so there is no political or otherwise ignorant bias. Even the word swastika has a much older meaning than most realize however most who are too lazy to study associate it exclusively as a German word, that's simply not true. It's a shame we've allowed the worst leader in world history to conterfeit it and claim it as his own, but it's because we as a people have allowed it by burying our heads in the sand. 

 

 

Examples used in Blackfeet tribe and Fylfot from Scotland. Notice they face a different directions than the counterfeit? It was used in many configurations and there are reasons for that.

 

 

Here's a quote from a scientific vantage point discussing what they call "the archetype". 

"Some circles are even trying to unveil the universal movements that are key to understanding the asymmetrical creation as an attempt to reverse engineer the archetype. The archetype comprises the fundamental templates that penetrate all levels which can be found in the constants that physics uses, or the gods people pray to. Space, time and motion needs to be defined and agreed upon before we can answer who we are, where we are, and where we are going. Is space the final frontier or is it motion?"

 

Below is another example on a Greek coin from the 4th century and a plate from 5000BCE from Iraq

 

The evil nazi regime is gone and has been defeated folks! I say we take the symbol back for the sake of humanity and truth.

The K-R-I-T automobile was before the evil nazi regime and should be acknowledged as such.

Yes some white supremist groups have used it for ill intent, but we should not let that cloud the truth behind the symbol.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Not sure what this PC thing is that is being talked about. I have thick skin and cannot be bothered by words and names. 

[erichill]

Pontiac Chiefton might no fly today either.

[John348]

The Jordan Playboy

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by John348 (see edit history)

[John348]

I don't think "asking the man who owns one" would fly to well as a marketing campaign now.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by John348 (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Since the thread isn't going sideways I guess I will jump in with this one slogan  that caught my eye yesterday, see the top MG ad poster, "a man's car"... 

[rocketraider]

Oldsmobile got into it with Toronado advertising in 68.

 

What's funny is I found a series of 1969 Olds sales training videos on youtube a while back. These were showing Olds dealers how to market the line to women, with one specifically on marketing the Toronado to women.

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Back to MG for a glaring misstep I initially missed.  "Midget" at least state side, has been considered a derogatory term for a long time, an MG model designation forever...

[rocketraider]

OT but funny. A high school friend's name was Vance Midgett. Vance was 6'5" 200 lb basketball player and wore size 14 shoes... 

 

Boy got a lot of mileage out of his name on the basketball court.