Locomobiles in Competition

[alsfarms]

That is some good progress! With this type of sport body design, are you now planning to run fenders and running boards? I like what I am seeing. You do have a good eye for design, perspective and proportion.

Al

Edited June 28, 2023 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[rydersclassics]

I appreciate your kind words. 

 

Haven't decided yet on fenders but been put on notice it will at least need some type of step plates to get Linda (5'1" tall) in the car.

She is looking forward to a ride to that first car show! Maybe a Lime Rock Park Vintage Fall Festival?

That's a ways off.... 

 

At some point I will play with these fenders to see how they look up front.

 

Maybe matching styled rears with open cast running boards no splash aprons? 

What do you think?

 

 

[George K]

1 hour ago, rydersclassics said:

I appreciate your kind words. 

 

Haven't decided yet on fenders but been put on notice it will at least need some type of step plates to get Linda (5'1" tall) in the car.

She is looking forward to a ride to that first car show! Maybe a Lime Rock Park Vintage Fall Festival?

That's a ways off.... 

 

At some point I will play with these fenders to see how they look up front.

 

Maybe matching styled rears with open cast running boards no splash aprons? 

What do you think?

 

 

Perfect. They would allow outside pipes.

[rydersclassics]

WOW!

 

What a great picture of a great car George.

 

Wonder what the wheel base was on this one.   

[George K]

22 minutes ago, rydersclassics said:

WOW!

 

What a great picture of a great car George.

 

Wonder what the wheel base was on this one.   

It’s Passey’s. He bought it from Art Austria ‘s auction circa 1971. Catalog description states 142”.wheelbase.

[prewarnut]

I like this version with the higher rear boat-tail. It gives a strong character line across the whole profile and possibly minimizes the spare tire slightly. To me the car is more bullet-like, powerful. The rear convex deck mimics the hood/cowl a little too.

[rydersclassics]

Does anyone know how the hood is modified for side exhaust on Passey's car? 

 

Slots or fixed lower portion held stationary and separate from top of side when opening hood, maybe?

Would love to see pictures.

Can't make out this detail in the pictures but would like to get close to correct first cut without guessing.

 

I have set cylinders and stock manifolds in place to verify clearances of steering box and firewall location.

Have sorted through hood parts and want to plan modifications to exhaust side panel for side pipes.      

[George K]

42 minutes ago, rydersclassics said:

Does anyone know how the hood is modified for side exhaust on Passey's car? 

 

Slots or fixed lower portion held stationary and separate from top of side when opening hood, maybe?

Would love to see pictures.

Can't make out this detail in the pictures but would like to get close to correct first cut without guessing.

 

I have set cylinders and stock manifolds in place to verify clearances of steering box and firewall location.

Have sorted through hood parts and want to plan modifications to exhaust side panel for side pipes.      

Maybe this could help. I like the intake and carburetor. Period speed equipment.

[George K]

This is from an ad. Rendering but detailed. Out the wrong side probably for the art department preference.

[rydersclassics]

Great stuff!

 

I copied the picture and zoomed in.

The hood slots look trimmed for reinforcement with a panel behind to close down the opening and complete the circle around each pipe.

Very helpful.

 

That Rayfield competition performance add with a July 1st 1915 date is cool and spot on for this project!.

Rather than 2 side drafts this may be the best setup after all. It should balance fuel distribution better on this split intake manifold. and tune easily

 

You come up with amazing information George, greatly appreciated.  

 

Just for fun, you don't happen have anything on early adaptable superchargers do you?

Pushing a little more air through that Rayfield could really wake this engine up given the stock 4.5 compression ratio. and large combustion chambers.

I doubt you could reach 6 to 1 with new pistons but the rods and crank shaft should handle that ok. 

 

My additional 1.75" setback gives me enough room for a drive or sprocket up front....    

Endless dreams.

 

Ok, I know, got to focus on lot's of work already.

[alsfarms]

Here is my question. I like wire wheels and elsewhere in the forums the discussion of wire wheels has been breached. From the pictures George posted above, it is my assumption that the shown wheel type must be Rudge. The graphic rendition of the hubcaps do not appear to be Buffalo.  By the  early to mid 20's, Buffalo #6's would likely be the "go to wire wheel" for the heavy automobiles such as Locomobile and Rolls-Royce.

Al

[rydersclassics]

Wheels Through Time car Youtube video.

 

 

 

 

[George K]

SRB was the licensee of Rudge Whitworth. At some point Marlin Rockwell was involved.

[George K]

[rydersclassics]

Is anyone tripping over an early centrifugal blower like the Chadwick or Renault designs?

 

If Chadwick made 260 cars the blowers couldn't all have been scrapped.  

[alsfarms]

Steve,

If you are not real stuck on an era correct blower, you could dress up one of the more modern Eaton type blowers to do the same thing and have something close to the look you are after. I very much like the design and style of the "Blower Bentley" supercharger.

George, do you know what what spline or hub sized Rudge wire wheel hardware was used on Locomobile?

Al

[George K]

3 hours ago, rydersclassics said:

Is anyone tripping over an early centrifugal blower like the Chadwick or Renault designs?

 

If Chadwick made 260 cars the blowers couldn't all have been scrapped.  

Try it normally aspirated and if you can out drive the engine then consider the huffer. I have some experience and could maybe shed some light on it.

[rydersclassics]

Yes normally aspirated is where we are at for now.

 

I have plenty of work to do at the moment and appreciate the pitfalls of boost.

 

Would love to learn more from your (everyone's) experiences, it's so much less time consuming and expensive than the school of hard knocks as usual.  

We all get carried away sometimes.  

 

 

 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Steve, if I would have the freedom of designing my car as you have (luckily I don't have that need, I simply follow Mr. Rikers sales specs), I would look for a mechanically driven blower as used on two-stroke Diesels, in particular the Rootes-type as used on Detroit Diesels. Rootes blowers were also used on cars very early. These two-stroke Diesel engines must use blowers, they cannot run without external charging. There are many different blower types and sizes available, for sure one will fit the Loco 8.6 liter displacement with direct coupling to the front of the crankshaft (you will not have a chance to change pulleys for adjusting the charge rate). Testing and adjusting that engine will be an interesting challenge!

[ak]

19 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Here is my question. I like wire wheels and elsewhere in the forums the discussion of wire wheels has been breached. From the pictures George posted above, it is my assumption that the shown wheel type must be Rudge. The graphic rendition of the hubcaps do not appear to be Buffalo.  By the  early to mid 20's, Buffalo #6's would likely be the "go to wire wheel" for the heavy automobiles such as Locomobile and Rolls-Royce.

Al

100 MM Rudge

[ak]

On 7/2/2023 at 10:32 AM, rydersclassics said:

Does anyone know how the hood is modified for side exhaust on Passey's car? 

 

Slots or fixed lower portion held stationary and separate from top of side when opening hood, maybe?

Would love to see pictures.

Can't make out this detail in the pictures but would like to get close to correct first cut without guessing.

 

I have set cylinders and stock manifolds in place to verify clearances of steering box and firewall location.

Have sorted through hood parts and want to plan modifications to exhaust side panel for side pipes.      

Wow, tell me about that intake manifold!  Did you pattern and cast that to accommodate what appears to be a Rayfield carbie?  Impressive thing indeed.  If so can I borrow the pattern?

[rydersclassics]

Yes John It's a Rayfield and no I didn't pattern and cast the intake so here is what I can offer in case anyone can tell us more about it. 

 

It is an interesting thing so I cleaned it up a bit hoping to find more information. Oddly the only mark on either piece is the work top and a small mark beneath I can't identify as anything. No casting numbers, part numbers, or dates. The two flange carb mount has those four flats that had a purpose like mounting a shield?

The bolts had some grinding and the flat washers were crudely cut off to make work. Nothing looks production overall.

 

Wish it could talk.

     

Edited July 4, 2023 by rydersclassics (see edit history)

[ak]

37 minutes ago, rydersclassics said:

Yes John It's a Rayfield and no I didn't pattern and cast the intake so here is what I can offer in case anyone can tell us more about it. 

 

It is an interesting thing so I cleaned it up a bit hoping to find more information. Oddly the only mark on either piece is the work top and a small mark beneath I can't identify as anything. No casting numbers, part numbers, or dates. The two flange carb mount has those four flats that had a purpose like mounting a shield?

The bolts had some grinding and the flat washers were crudely cut off to make work. Nothing looks production overall.

 

Wish it could talk.

     

That is spectacular! So much work to design and implement successfully.

Fantastic

[George K]

1 hour ago, rydersclassics said:

Yes John It's a Rayfield and no I didn't pattern and cast the intake so here is what I can offer in case anyone can tell us more about it. 

 

It is an interesting thing so I cleaned it up a bit hoping to find more information. Oddly the only mark on either piece is the work top and a small mark beneath I can't identify as anything. No casting numbers, part numbers, or dates. The two flange carb mount has those four flats that had a purpose like mounting a shield?

The bolts had some grinding and the flat washers were crudely cut off to make work. Nothing looks production overall.

 

Wish it could talk.

     

That thing is slick. Bet it works well. That’s the correct Rayfield for your car. Speed equipment from the period.

[alsfarms]

That is a most interesting. What is the composition of the manifold? SS, mild or brass?  Someone put some good effort into that manifold! 

Al

[rydersclassics]

Cast aluminum.

 

[alsfarms]

That is nice. The patterns would be complex for these parts! I had a lower water manifold cast in yellow  bronze,for a Model M Wisconsin, that took a very complex pattern, similar to this one for the Locomobile.

Al

[rydersclassics]

I still wonder about the origin of this manifold.

 

Could it have been a prototype, of a military vehicle like a tank, a Riker truck, was the 2 port section from a 4 cylinder and repurposed????

 

For some reason the 4 flat area would be unnecessary extra work, there had to be a reason, a clue to the puzzle.

 

Who knows? 

 

Steve    

[George K]

The mitered transitions are unusual most manifolds have curved elbow transitions. Must be a transplant from a similar engine perhaps and industrial. Strangest feature to my eyes are the flanges as they appear to be very large and drilled off center although they don’t seem welded and and then drilled. Someone put a lot of thought and work to fit it on the engine. Not a unusual idea of manifolding but a good one.

[alsfarms]

Nice American-LaFrance engine. What model rig is it in? As I recall, this engine is the American-LaFrance equivalent to the Pierce-Arrow 66.

Al

[ak]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:05 PM, rydersclassics said:

Yes John It's a Rayfield and no I didn't pattern and cast the intake so here is what I can offer in case anyone can tell us more about it. 

 

It is an interesting thing so I cleaned it up a bit hoping to find more information. Oddly the only mark on either piece is the work top and a small mark beneath I can't identify as anything. No casting numbers, part numbers, or dates. The two flange carb mount has those four flats that had a purpose like mounting a shield?

The bolts had some grinding and the flat washers were crudely cut off to make work. Nothing looks production overall.

 

Wish it could talk.

     

The beauty of that manifold is that the lower center bolt does not need to pass through the vacuum chamber in the manifold. 

[alsfarms]

What is the latest development on your build?

Al

[rydersclassics]

Not much exciting.

 

Dismantling and repairing hood panels and watching paint dry on wheel and rim components.

 

Haven't taken many pictures of steps.    

 

 

[alsfarms]

Steve are you noticing any galvanic corrosion on the aluminum hood side panels, between the skin and the sheet metal inner structure? I am dealing with that very issue on the hood of my Locomobile that spent its life in the humid environment of the east coast.

Al

[rydersclassics]

Yes,

 

Not sure what kind of paint was used were the steel is riveted to the aluminum. It most likely lasted a lifetime but it seems best to separate the dissimilar metals, strip and paint with at least a good etching primer before reinstalling.

I have a variety of damage some very minor, other pieces less protected from weather have lower steel reinforcing edges that I will reproduce and replace.

 

You may notice in the above picture the front edge of one side panel eroded away for about two inches and the rest of the panel is very nice, (strange). Maybe left standing on end is a wet corner.

Fortunately there is a donor panel to use for this repair.

 

  

   

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by rydersclassics (see edit history)

[rydersclassics]

Hood corrosion on this aluminum hood side panel finished today. 

[alsfarms]

Nice work. It sure looks better to see the rot gone and smoothed out. Was that repair MIG or TIG?

Al

[alsfarms]

It appears that you were able to control the warpage due to the welding process.

Al

[rydersclassics]

Fortunately an acquaintance does laser welding. An amazing process leaving a 1/16" weld to finish without warpage.

It took a couple of hours for me to carefully  knock down the weld with a grinder then finish sand the panel.   

[alsfarms]

I have some hood panel repair to do also. I will research the Laser Welding process. I am very impressed that you are not dealing with panel warpage! The hood sure looks the right part. Good for you!

Al