alsfarms Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 Your point is well taken. Riker called this particular Locomobile example what he thought/wanted to call it. The information you quoted keeps historical fact as straight as possible. I for one appreciate the good information posted on the Locomobile chat forums proven and supported by historical documents not a guess or modern opinion. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, rydersclassics said: I saw/read this a while back and found it very interesting. What do you all think? The genesis of Locomobile M roadsters essentially begins in 1913. This type lasted till 1915. when DeCausse arrives to head the Custom Department in late 1914 his designs incorporated what was called in the body builder world streamlining. Simply stated it’s the end of flat firewalls that hood terminated on a firewall that extended past the hood to create the cowl. No real cars are featured in Locomobile catalogs as early as 1913 only artists renderings. Prewarrnut posted the best information regarding the1913-1915 Gentleman’s Roadsters . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 The car Gooding is auctioning is the best example of the DeCausse 1916 design with streamline cowl roadster. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 P.S. Everything from the door post back was subject to the designers / customers wishes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 hours ago, George K said: If the catalog is dated 1915 is is a 1916 car. Again Riker knew what his car was and your semantics won’t change what he named it. He ran that company and no revisionist history will ever change that. Gunboat roadster. Ooops. I should quit earlier and go to bed. It is indeed listed not as a runabout roadster, but a raceabout roadster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, George K said: P.S. Everything from the door post back was subject to the designers / customers wishes. Former Mark J Smith Locomobile. Very special 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ak said: Ooops. I should quit earlier and go to bed. It is indeed listed not as a runabout roadster, but a raceabout roadster Edited June 22, 2023 by ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, ak said: Are copies of these documents extant? Edited June 22, 2023 by ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 4 hours ago, ak said: Ooops. I should quit earlier and go to bed. It is indeed listed not as a runabout roadster, but a raceabout roadster Are you quoting Riker senior, Riker junior or Riker junior's junior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, George K said: If the catalog is dated 1915 is is a 1916 car. Again Riker knew what his car was and your semantics won’t change what he named it. He ran that company and no revisionist history will ever change that. Gunboat roadster. Edited June 22, 2023 by ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ak said: Just to be clear, reporting only what is found printed or described in authentic factory publications of the period. The information reported is not the author's opinion. People are permitted to accept or reject what is printed, however the facts reported are not conjecture or "semantics", simply the reporting of the actual words printed in the factory publications. Also, please note the statements are not directed to or intended to explain, correct, or contradict what Riker (any one of the three of them) may have reported. Anyone may express any opinion or interpretation which he may desire, which is the license of the First Amendment. Edited June 22, 2023 by ak (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 43 minutes ago, ak said: Just to be clear, reporting only what is found printed or described in authentic factory publications of the period. The information reported is not the author's opinion. People are permitted to accept or reject what is printed, however the facts reported are not conjecture or "semantics", simply the reporting of the actual words printed in the factory publications. Also, please note the statements are not directed to or intended to explain, correct, or contradict what Riker (any one of the three of them) may have reported. Anyone may express any opinion or interpretation which he may desire, which is the license of the First Amendment. Amen. The first amendment gives every citizen the right to be wrong. All history is subject to interpretation but due diligence requires many sources to keep in context. I have made assumptions regarding automobile history and learned how wrong I was. Then I studied for forty years to have deeper understanding of the many forces involved in the story of automobiles. I wish the same to you. Interpret away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 23 hours ago, George K said: Amen. The first amendment gives every citizen the right to be wrong. All history is subject to interpretation but due diligence requires many sources to keep in context. I have made assumptions regarding automobile history and learned how wrong I was. Then I studied for forty years to have deeper understanding of the many forces involved in the story of automobiles. I wish the same to you. Interpret away. Right back at 'ya my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 So John, What is the rest of the story on the white racecar shown above? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 14 hours ago, alsfarms said: So John, What is the rest of the story on the white racecar shown above? Al Saw in in the forums and reposted here since our friend was looking at speedster bodies. The one pictured is a Studebaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/21/2023 at 9:38 PM, George K said: P.S. This is from A.L. Rikers personal papers. Not “special “ but Gunboat. George, do you have access to a copy of number 1 "Invoice for Locomobile converter for A.L. Riker, 1920"? If so, would you kindly share a copy? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydersclassics Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Thanks for posting those 2 additional pictures George they are a big help. Been spending time & materially in an effort to find a good line and create that step-through, Special, Custom, Gunboat, Boattail Race-About, Speedster interpretation based on Riker's Gunboat.... Its crude but got to start somewhere. It was my hope to get further along with my mock up before sharing but the weather this morning is slowing me down. Always open to any and all suggestions, critiques, as I attempt to tap into the Akashic record and hope Riker and DeCausse would approve. If it comes together as I hope she gets named Yevette! On the other hand if I am not satisfied, it gets labeled "Sourball 6". or the "Kindling Special" and I go back to the safe space of a more traditional Speedster build where I began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, rydersclassics said: Thanks for posting those 2 additional pictures George they are a big help. Been spending time & materially in an effort to find a good line and create that step-through, Special, Custom, Gunboat, Boattail Race-About, Speedster interpretation based on Riker's Gunboat.... Its crude but got to start somewhere. It was my hope to get further along with my mock up before sharing but the weather this morning is slowing me down. Always open to any and all suggestions, critiques, as I attempt to tap into the Akashic record and hope Riker and DeCausse would approve. If it comes together as I hope she gets named Yevette! On the other hand if I am not satisfied, it gets labeled "Sourball 6". or the "Kindling Special" and I go back to the safe space of a more traditional Speedster build where I began. Just an idea. You need to follow your instincts. Your car. Your rules. I like the simplicity of the lines given Locomobile 48’s are luxury based. Good luck. I can see you earned the talents that only come from years of hard work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Couple of thoughts / observations in regards to addressing seating height. The drawing you posted deals with it by curbing the area surrounding the seats. Passey’s car deals with it by raising the tail. I dig the outside pipes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 They should’ve made outside pipes standard on all locomobiles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydersclassics Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Open pipes are in the long term plan regardless of final body style. I like Passy's car a lot and have been studying that picture and every drawing I can find. The seats in my pictures are tall unless I raise the top panel either by adding a curve and, or, raising the whole panel at the rear which I did try a couple of times. At present it feels like a shift away from Riker's car styling that I am most taken by. The next step at this point is to extend the cowl out over the dash and create that tunnel/cockpit affect then carry the cowl line straight down the A pillar. My first thought for the step through opening is 90 degrees in front, playing with the height of the horizontal line, then following the seat back line to the top panel. If I like it I may cut down the seat height or build seats from scratch. Thanks for your suggestions George. Edited June 24, 2023 by rydersclassics (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 This is certainly a special. I will admit to this group, I am not a big fan of the fender design that thick Locomobile shows. I imagine, back in the day, that the flat, angular fender likely had a certain appeal? Maybe they were much simpler to fabricate. Most of this type fender is seen on the Pershing Locomobiles. Just my thoughts...... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 Oh and one more "quip" from me. This Locomobile looks "tail heavy" to me with three spare tires hanging on the back. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, alsfarms said: Oh and one more "quip" from me. This Locomobile looks "tail heavy" to me with three spare tires hanging on the back. Al I would invite her (the machine) to stay as long as she'd like! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittenbacher Frank Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Steve, maybe these photos of the gunboats mentioned before, taken from different angles, can support your planning a bit more? Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittenbacher Frank Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 ...and something from an older magazine! Have fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 AK, I'm not sure if that is the canoe roadster (seating 4) but a little different in profile from their ad here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) Here is another version of the gunboat with the straighter fenders but of course not the same cabin, etc. From 1920 (note the price): Edited June 26, 2023 by prewarnut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, prewarnut said: Here is another version of the gunboat with the straighter fenders but of course not the same cabin, etc. From 1920 (note the price): The Locomobile Company published that illustration and their designation of the model being a four passenger rounded back end as a gunboat roadster in their custom body department catalog for 1917. The photographs of the boat tailed Locomobile depicted in this forum does not appear to be a "gunboat" by Locomobile published illustration. Edited June 26, 2023 by ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 From the same catalog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ak said: The Locomobile Company published that illustration and their designation of the model being a four passenger rounded back end as a gunboat roadster in their custom body department catalog for 1917. The photographs of the boat tailed Locomobile depicted in this forum does not appear to be a "gunboat" by Locomobile published illustration. Edited June 26, 2023 by ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, ak said: Only counts if they built one. You have a real picture of one or just a rendering in a catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 George, good point. I do like Passey's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 36 minutes ago, prewarnut said: George, good point. I do like Passey's. Here’s a rendering of the body style. Exhaust is on the wrong side. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydersclassics Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Thanks for the additional reafference picture Frank. Here are the latest pattern pictures as of this evening. After slimming down the center between the seat side panels I pinched the buckets an 1 1/2"' , everything fits a little better bur feel like I need to take 3"+- of the top of the backs. Inside cockpit width set at 41". The cowl dash tunnel feels good, the step though sides are working for me and the boattail is shaping up except the truck hatch frame size yet to be determined. Tomorrows another day! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, rydersclassics said: Thanks for the additional reafference picture Frank. Here are the latest pattern pictures as of this evening. After slimming down the center between the seat side panels I pinched the buckets an 1 1/2"' , everything fits a little better bur feel like I need to take 3"+- of the top of the backs. Inside cockpit width set at 41". The cowl dash tunnel feels good, the step though sides are working for me and the boattail is shaping up except the truck hatch frame size yet to be determined. Tomorrows another day! Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydersclassics Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Wrapped it in Ram Board to get a better visual. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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