1922 Buick new top begins

[Mark Kikta]

While by top bow sockets are out for a small welding repair, I started testing some epoxy filling material for use in filling holes and cracks in my top bows.

 

I made a test board with 3 sets of small and large cuts as well as nail holes for each. I had 3 test samples to compare.  All we’re using the West System epoxy resin and hardener with three different fillers. 
 

The first sample was mixed with the West System fairing filler(#407) and it is brown in color.  The next system was mixed with Top-Flight microballons filler which is what I always used with my RC planes to make epoxy more sandable.  Then finally the third sample was mixed with Q-cells from pigdogsurfshop which  is used for surfboard repair.

 

In the end, after the proper curing period,  all three samples held tacks pretty well and none cracked when tacks were nailed into it.  I believe however that the tacks in the west System #407 may have been a bit easier to remove but not by much.  My testing showed that the Q-cells held the tacks a bit better than the others.  The microballons was very close to the results shown by the Q-cells and was also white in color.
 

So my intention is to use Q-cells mixed with West System epoxy to fill the cracks and holes in my bows going forward.

[Hubert_25-25]

Mark, 

    That looks like a good test.  I like what you have done making big holes, scratches, and small tack holes to check for the filler effectiveness.  Filling the small holes is nice where you do not need to install all the tooth picks.  Q cells are great for breathing new life into a wood bow that is still structurally sound but just needs a rejuvinated surface for putting tacks into.  I had also tried using some other products, but found them too hard to drive the tacks into.  The Q cells are really a nice wood filler substitute.   

 

One other comment about the sockets.  After the welding repair, you have to make the decision to paint or powder coat the sockets.  

1) There are metal fillers that you can powder coat over the top of.  "All Metal" is the one I used.  Sometimes you have surface pitting that needs to be leveled. 

2) Some of the sockets (if not most) have a wood dowel inside them.  These have a tendency to fall out if you do powder coating as the booth is 400 degrees for x minutes, so let the powder coater know to not leave these in the hot box any longer than they need to be if you do powder coat them.  That wood inside the sockets has a tendency to shrink as the moisture is driven out.

The advantage to powder coating is that it can get into tighter spots than painting and it is a very durable finish.

Hugh

[dibarlaw]

Mark:

I had hoped to get some close up photos for you. These photos were from his Facebook ad. Last week this very original 1923-55 turned up for sale in VA.

I had told him I was interested at his price and were scheduled to see it on Saturday. We were 45 minutes away when I contacted him and he said it was sold and he was not going to be home. I believe the top to be original or redone very early in its life. I can not verify since I was not able to see it in person

 

Correct rear window for the Sport Touring. Early 1923 (pre 1,000,000) since tail light is not centered to carrier.

Your rear window should be the oval Johnston (incorrect for my car.) 

    Notice the "Spanish Grain " inprint on the leather.

Edited May 8 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

There is a fellow out in California who does top socket repair and fabrication.  His name is John Boorinakis.  I have his contact information and when I find it I will post it on here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[dibarlaw]

My experience with John was that he kept putting me off for several years untill I looked elswhere. That is when Mel Draper in Ohio made up my sockets and bows.

  

Mark looks to have a very minor repair that can be done locally.

[AussieBuick]

DR Google also suggests that QCells are easily sanded; makes the ideal filler to glue in fin boxes and legrope plugs and is suitable for repairing “dings” in surfboards.

[Mark Kikta]

 

Here is my oval window that was in my top that was original.  It seems to be in pretty good shape.

As far as my top bows go, I took the front bow out so I could fix the rust spot on the front socket.  I don't seem to have any other rust spots so I don't intend to remove any further bows.

I plan to sand blast the sockets and prime and paint with black single stage auto paint.

 

[Mark Kikta]

Larry,

 

I saw that car and looked closely at the photos.  It seemed to be a nice shape original.  Sorry you missed out.

[Mark Kikta]

Received my sockets back from the repair shop and the rusted portion on the front socket has been repaired nicely. My plan is to now fill the holes on the bows and do any bow repair before I sand blast the sockets for paint.  The smaller tack holes were filled with the toothpick method.  I'll fill the larger holes and wood damaged areas with the West System combined with Q-cells.

 

Most of the larger hole damage and wood repair needed on the rear bow is all focused where the two rear straps were attached to the bow as shown in the last two photos.

 

I'm assessing the front bow next to decide if I will fix it up or have a new bow made.

[Mark Kikta]

So I did some bow repair work on my rear bow today.  I finished cutting off all of the tooth picks and then I filled the areas where former tacks pulled out larger chucks of wood when they were removed. I used the West Systems with the Q-cells as I described earlier.  I was very pleased with the results. 

 

My front bow cracked when it slipped off of the worktable and you can see here that I did a repair on it.  I used Titebond wood glue and countersunk #6 bolts to repair it.  The repair seemed adequate and seemed quite strong, but in the end, I decided to just have a new bow made. I delivered my old front bow to Rick Kesselring at Oak Bows in Chambersburg, Pa. and should get me new one soon.

 

In the meantime, I had my sockets sandblasted and then I primed, sealed and painted them.  I used my lift arms to hold them in the air so I could paint and sand all sides easily without having to move them around.  I painted them with Acrylic Enamel with a hardener.  I think they came out very nice and I'm pleased with the results. Can't wait to get the new bow fitted and installed.

[Mark Kikta]

So, while I am waiting for my new front bow to be made, I thought I would analyze how to wrap bows 2,3 and 4 with Bowdrill.  All of my Bowdrill and Stayfast has arrived from the Haartz Corp.  Eric Haartz was most helpful in ordering what I needed.

 

Looking at the first three photos you can see how the wrapped material was applied to my Buick originally.  It was clearly sewn together. Looking at bows 2 and 3 you can see my toothpicks in all of the tack holes.  The only tacks used in these bows were at the pad attachment locations.  There are no tack holes across the center portions of these bows to hold the wrap in place.  I saw on a Model T forum that Ford did not use tacks to hold the wrap in place because if any of them backed out even just a bit, a hole would be quickly worn in the top material. That makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't know if I have the talent to hand sew the bowdrill in place on those bows.  I am going to research this a bit more to assess my options before proceeding.

 

I'm open for comments/suggestions.

[Mark Kikta]

I also decided to take my rear window apart to clean it up and have the glass replaced with laminated glass. Luckily before I did anything further, I labeled each side of the glue joints in case the wood frame came apart. 

 

Sure enough that is exactly what happened.  When I removed the screws holding the Pot Metal bezel to the wood frame, it came apart at all joints.  The glue had failed at every joint.  I quickly mixed some epoxy and I re-glued all joints with epoxy and I used the metal bezel and screws to hold the frame in the correct shape until the epoxy cured.

 

While I'm waiting for the new glass, I can try to polish the Pot Metal bezel.  I see no evidence of it ever being nickel plated.

I've wet-sanded the pot metal with some 320 and 400 and it feels quite smooth.  I'm off to see what I can find at the auto parts store to try to polish the bezel a bit.

[Hubert_25-25]

On the bowdrill, I would think they stitched a tube.  Measure the circumference of the bow.  Divide this number in 2.  Fold the fabric in half and make the stitch at this distance.  Then pull one end all the way thru this "tube" and that puts the seam on the inside.  Also bowdrill is cut on a bias which is important for being able to make it fit.   Hugh  

[EmTee]

3 hours ago, Mark Kikta said:

I'm off to see what I can find at the auto parts store to try to polish the bezel a bit.

I've had good luck with this on most metals, plated or not:

 

[Mark Kikta]

Well I spent the better part of the afternoon on this.  I wet sanded first with 300, 400, 600, and 2000 grit sandpaper.  Then I tried never dull and mothers wheel polish.  After that I used some sticks of red rouge polish followed by green stick polish to finish the job using a buffing wheel on my drill.  I clear coated with two coats of clear lacquer in the end.

 

It’s not perfect but a lot better than it was.

[John Bloom]

Looks very nice!

 

 

[dibarlaw]

Mark:

 I spoke to Rick this morning. He has held up in doing any bending this week with the heat and humidity. When he starts the steam box it gets to be over 140 degrees in the area.

 He said he will do bending next week.

[Mark Kikta]

Thank you, Larry.  He also called me a bit ago to tell me the same.

[Hubert_25-25]

Mark, 

    From our discussion, this is how I rewrote the description of how to attach the bowdrill to the bows.   

Best method is to use 3/8” double sided tape on the top of the bow.  Set the long side of the bowdrill on it.  Wrap the bow and fold the trailing edge underneath with the fold over above the double sided tape.  Temporarily hold with tacks or thumb tacks.  Hand stitch this with a cinch every inch.  Remove the tacks.      

[Mark Kikta]

I think you could use tacks to hold the fold on the curves because the pads will be nailed on top of that part.

[Mark Kikta]

While waiting for my new front bow, I’ve finished cleaning up my rear window frame. I brushed penetrating epoxy to preserve the wool frame and polished the pot metal bezel.  Also included a picture of the tacking strip material originally used by Buick to hold the glass and back curtain liner in place on the wood frame.

Also today I unwrapped all of my material. The bow drill will be the first material I use and the stayfast was wrapped on top, so Kathy and I transferred the stayfast to another tube.   Getting close to make some real progress after I get my new bow and fit it to the sockets. 

Edited July 31 by Mark Kikta (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

While I'm still waiting for my new front bow to show up, I thought I should work on some logistics.

 

I only have 3 of these long Hidem end tips.  One was missing on my car.  I'm trying to make a fourth one.  I'm getting close.  If I can get one made that I like, I plan to have them plated.  The new ones sold today are shorter and not as classy when installed in my opinion. 

 

Also, I made a rack to hold my top fabric next to my work bench.  This will keep it from getting wrinkles on the ends and store it so it won't get dirty.   

[Hubert_25-25]

Buick painted those hidem spears and used black DOT snaps.  Photos are period and Alan Wohl's original 1925 model 45.    Hugh

 

 

 

[Mark Kikta]

My ends looked like they were painted on the outside but were clearly plated on the inside.  Guess they painted the plated ends??

Edited August 6 by Mark Kikta (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

You can see it was plated

Edited August 6 by Mark Kikta (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Mark:

 Since you are going with a Burbank like cloth color, the plated ends would not make much contrast.

 Leif's 1925-25 car with original Burbank cloth detailing.

 A green binding to be close to the dark green body color and matching snaps. The rear hidem ends are black and the front ones are nickle plated. I believe that was a later addition by him.

 

 

 

[Leif Holmberg]

Can`t remember what happend with the hiddems in front,but here is a picture from 1970,looks black.Perhaps one was lost and I put the new stainless steel hiddems ?

 

[Mark Kikta]

Today was a fun day.  I drove to Chambersburg, Pa to pick up my new front bow from Rick Kesselring at Oak Bows Inc.  He did a great job matching my old front bow.  I met up with Larry Di’Barry there where we chatted with Rick for a while in the morning and then Larry, his wife and I went out to lunch.  It was a fun day!

 

Now I have to round the four corners and fit the bow into the socket before I can cover it with fabric to get started.

[Leif Holmberg]

When seeing those top bows I always thinking of how importent it is to put a rope on those old top bows as in my picture. Just wonder how many old  "folding tops"that had been damage just becuse no rope from side to side,I`m thinking of 1910-1920 top bows.

 

Edited August 9 by Leif Holmberg (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

Yesterday I fitted my new front bow to my irons.  

 

First, I used my original bow to mark how this new bow should fit to the front sockets/irons and where I should cut the ends off to match. Then I laid the new bow on my worktable covered with paper.  I traced the new bow on the paper and marked an approximate center on the bow and paper.  Then I flipped the bow over and lined it up with the lines on the paper and marked the bow at the mark on the paper.  The difference between the two marks on my bow is now my exact center. I used my band saw to cut the ends off of the new bow and got to work fitting to the sockets.

 

Used my band saw to make my first rough cut and then used my router to round out the corners.  I cut a groove down the center on the inside to match up to the metal fold that is on the inside of the sockets and used my belt sander to start rounding and shaping the ends to fit.  At one point I even spray painted the wood and pressed it into the socket to see where the high points were.  Lastly, I used the sanding wheel of my dremel tool to get the nice fit right up to the socket.

 

After I got the ends to fit to my satisfaction, I used the router to round the edges of the bow to match my old bow. Three of the four edges were the same, but the top front edge was a bit more rounded which is where the top will lay over the bow and be tacked to the front side.

 

After completing the woodwork, I took the bow out to the car where I marked the bow for the attaching brackets and then drilled and attached the brackets to ensure a good fit to the top of the windshield. My next step is to attach the bow to the irons and then do a complete fit of my bows and irons before I start covering this bow with stayfast.

 

[Terry Wiegand]

Mark, you do beautiful work.  I have a question for you.  Since you do not have the top sockets attached to the body, how did you know where to locate the brackets that set down on top of the windshield posts?  I might be missing something here but I think others might be wondering the same thing.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Mark Kikta]

Terry,

 

I used the old bow to mark the general locations of the brackets.  I drilled one hole and installed one bolt loosely.  Then took the bow to the windshield and fit/ marked and drilled the other holes.  Fits like a glove now.  Then took the bow and installed it in the sockets.

 

mark

[Mark Kikta]

I completed covering this new front bow with my Stayfast fabric yesterday.  I cut 2 pieces of fabric 7 x 16 inches on the bias and covered the round portions of the bow and covered the center straight section with the 47 x 6" strip of fabric. I used staples to attach all pieces and stapled all on the top of the bow.  All staples(stainless steel) will be covered with the Visor piece that I will need to make which gives the front window it's seal to the top and or the top pads yet to be made.  All ends were folded over to create a nice edge and the ends that folded over the metal sockets were sewn together to keep them tight.

Edited August 13 by Mark Kikta (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

After completing my front bow, I got my roll of bowdrill out to cut the material needed to cover bows 1-4.  I cut my patterns out of heavy brown paper first making each one 8 inches longer than the bow and 11 inches wide.   Then I laid the bowdrill out and laid the paper patterns on the bias (45-degree angle) and drew out each piece. I cut all three pieces out and laid them on the table to begin the covering process. 

 

Previously Kathy and I placed the bows on the car and were able to mark the top side of the number 2 and 3 bow with magic marker in an effort to ensure all of my staples etc. were on the top of each bow so they were not so visible when competed.

 

I used spray glue first to start the covering process placing the first edge on the glued part of each bow. After the first edge is glued in place, I wrapped the bow and held the material in place using push pins and then trimmed the excess as I went along every foot or so.  I used staples to attach the folded bowdrill where the pads are tacked to each bow on each end. Across the remainder of each bow (Bows 2-3 only) I sewed the bowdrill together so that the staples would not wear on the underside of the top material in the future.

 

For the rear bow I covered it with bowdrill and used staples all along the length since all top material will be tacked in place all across the top of this bow.

 

So, all bows are now complete with the covering process and now I'm on the making the front visor assembly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14 by Mark Kikta (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

Now that I have finished covering my bows, it time to make the front visor assy which is used to keep wind and water from blowing over the front windshield.  Here you can see how the visor assembly is attached to the front bow and the second picture shows what the visor assembly actually looks like when removed and flipped over to see how the flap is attached.  The flap has one snap at its center which snaps to a single snap in the center top of the windshield.  In the third picture you can see that the flap is made of top covering wrapped around a piece of 3/16" panel board to give it some stiffness.

 

I cut the two pieces of top material to make the visor assembly and a piece of polystyrene to sew in between the layers of material. Then I sewed all 3 pieces together along one edge.

 

Then I cut the piece of panel board I needed to make the flap and the top material required to cover that piece of panel board.  I used spray upholstery glue to firmly attach the material to both side of the panel board.  After wrapping the board on all sides and ends, I sewed it all together.  I sewed the material to the carboard on both ends and one side.  On the other side the material is folded so as to leave a bit of excess and that excess is all sewed together.  That excess is the portion that will be sewn to the visor assembly and let the flap actually "Flap" so it and be snapped to the front of the windshield when the top is up.

 

After completing all of the sewing, I installed the visor assembly to the front bow.  Now after I get these bows installed on  the car, I can mark where the snap should be and install the snap to the flap.

 

 

[Terry Wiegand]

Mark,

It is really interesting how the top on our D-45 is so very similar to yours and yet there is no snap in the center of that flap like what will be in yours.  Oh Well.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Mark Kikta]

Today we just installed my top bows to check out the fit and begin getting it all level.  Very pleased with how the visor assembly fits.  

[dibarlaw]

Mark:

 When you were here I believe I showed you how the steel plate was used to do the visor/seal on my cars.

Photos of Leif's car with the original top.

 What I have on my car now is pretty much how you are doing yours with a flap in the front.

[Mark Kikta]

Yea except mine is designed to hang straight down and press against the front side of the window frame where yours seems lay up against the underside of the front bow and press against the top of the window frame to seal.  That's one less thing to coordinate when you are putting the top up and trying to get that flap in front of the frame.

[Mark Kikta]

Today I spent several hours getting all bows in position and aligned.  I measured them all within 1/8 inch.  Rear bow is exactly even with rear body at 24 inches high. I put two straps on each bow to get them even.  You can see I used wood braces and cable with turnbuckles to make the rear bow stay exactly in place.