1914 and 1917 Locomobiles for sale at Nebraska auction, June 20, 2023

[alsfarms]

The picture posted above on July 1 shows an engine picture of the unrestored Locomobile sold in the auction. Look at the firewall.  What is missing that was held on with four bolts?

Al

[ak]

I believe Dr. Freud wrote about this.

[rydersclassics]

Did someone have a Stewart vacuum fuel pump mounted there?

 

Not sure what Freud would make of this interpretation.

  

[alsfarms]

Hmmmmm

I was not very close to Sigmund, so I am not sure what he would make of the four holes on the firewall......and me either!

🙂

[BR320]

I have followed the conversation with interest regarding the Locomobiles in the Kearney Museum.  I purchased the 1914 Blue 48 (engine number 7852) which I call my FrankenLoco.  I found the custom body very interesting, and it had the engine I wanted.  It looks like the body work was done a long time ago as it appears to be gas welded.  I winched it into the trailer and took it to my shop.  It had been setup for long term storage as all the fluids were drained.  Before I replaced the fluids, I dropped the oil pan to inspect the lower end. To my surprise it was brand new inside.  If it was run at all after the rebuild it must have been for a short time.  I put the fluids all back in including the transmission and rear dif.   The battery position on the switch did not provide spark but the magneto did.  I pressurized the tank, and it fired right up.  I have many old cars but nothing quite this old. I was concerned about the oil being around 2 psi at idle so I pulled the pump apart and refit the endplay on the gears.  I now have 3 psi at idle and about 6 at 1800rpm. I plan on driving it on tours and around town every so often, so I am trying to make it as dependable as possible.

These are manly cars to drive. The only thing I have that is as challenging to drive is a 32 V16 Cadillac Town car.  You definitely use your shoulders to steer the beasts.

I do have many questions on these old cars as literature is nonexistent.  I am looking for a wiring diagram for the magneto that is legible. I am not sure the battery side is wired up correctly.

I am also looking for an original voltmeter so I can remove the IHC ammeter that does not work anyway. 

The dash is going to be reworked to get the meters and switches in view and easier to reach and I plan on adding turn signals and brighter brake lights to make it a little more visible from the rear.  It's a really big car but drivers still rear end large trucks where I live so anything helps.

I know it's not a totally original Loco but I am trying to keep it as original as possible with the improvements that are needed.

Any help is greatly appreciated. 

[alsfarms]

IIt is nice to hear of your good fortune from a mechanical standpoint on your new Locomobile. Please share a few photos either here or on the Locomobile 48 and 38 gathering place and share more of your experiences as you go. Plenty of Locomobile enthusiasts to help and share information. 

Al

[alsfarms]

You should be able to get copies of the information you desire here. Are you thinking your Blue Locomobile is a 1914 48?

Al

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Dear new Loco owner, does this help?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

or does this fit your car?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

It would be great to know the car number (the plate on the dash) and what brand and type of magneto is installed, and a close-up photo of your Bosch coil in the dash. Then we can probably help more.

[BR320]

Thanks for the fast response.  I am new to Locomobile's so I will have many questions.  I will post pictures of the switch and magneto this week.  I think the first wiring diagram posted is the one I need and will look into it this afternoon. 

The data plate for the car is missing, no surprise and I have not been able to determine the age of the chassis.  I am assuming that the car started off as a 1914 touring chassis and was converted.  Are there any stamped chassis numbers that would help to identify the age of the chassis.  It does have the 4-speed transmission with an air compressor if that helps.

Again, thanks for the help.

[alsfarms]

Some things help to determine chassis and engine vintage. Contour of the front axle, ignition type, carburetor, rear axle,right or left hand drive, lights. Have you been able to track history from the previous owner or restorer?

Al

[BR320]

The collection that the car came out of was put into a museum setting about 12 years ago from what I was told by the person that was moving the cars out.  I believe the owner/restorer has since passed away.  The current collection owner knew nothing about the car nor was there any files to look at.  It's the same sad story I see more often than I would like to.  The person that did the work and enjoyed the car did not document anything or if they did the next generation tossed it when they were cleaning out the file cabinets.  I will get more pictures of the chassis, carburation and rear axle tonight.  For me it's just a matter of curiosity to try to solve the puzzle of what the components are and if they are all from the same original car or multiple parts from several different chassis.

Thanks

[BR320]

Here are the pictures of the magneto and switch. The magneto is a Bosch Type ZR6.

[BR320]

And the photos of the front axle.

[BR320]

And photos of the headlights and carburetor.  Hope this helps with identification.

Thanks for the all the help.

[edinmass]

It's a shame the build history is lost to time so recently. Looks like they had a decent chassis to start with. With modern reproduction bodies it's hard to get a true feel for the lines of the car without standing in front of it. It's fifty times more difficult to get things correct than people realize. Most importantly you were aware of what you were buying. Too many auctions today suck in the new people who then get burned big.........and it makes for a poor representation of the hobby itself. Hope it turns out to be a good runner for you. Sure looks like it will be fun to drive. Ed

[edinmass]

BR320.........what's the engine number? It should be on the crankcase and front timing cover........also, what is the track of the front end. Measure it center to center. Thanks, Ed

 

 

A few detailed photos of the starter/generator and carb as well as other details please. 

 

[alsfarms]

I just noted a chassis detail from the early 48 vintage. This automobile mounts the headlamp fork on the inside of the frame rails and not on top like the later 48's. I am leaning towards this blue roadster being based on a correct early running gear....more or less.

Al

[alsfarms]

There is a nice video clip of this blue roadster can be found at You Tube. Search  Blue 1914 Locomobile Roadster Steffes. 

Al

[BR320]

It's been a hectic week but I finally got back to the Locomobile.  Ed, the tire track on the ground center to center is 55 inches.  The engine number stamped into the front housings is 7852 which I believe lines up with 1914 numbers. I have attached pictures of the stater and generator and will follow up with carb pictures when I take it off for inspection.  It runs well but the position for best performance of the choke lever changes each time you start it. Not sure what's causing that, but it needs to be looked into.  

I have a couple of questions. What is the oil capacity of the engine and also the transmission?  I have filled the engine to the port on the passenger side of the crankcase + 2 quarts.  Thats how I normally run old tractors.  On the transmission I could not locate a plug or valve on the side so I put in a gallon of 140 weight gear oil. I might change to 600 weight but the car shifts really smooth with the 140.  Thoughts? 

[ak]

Great car. 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

You should not overfill the engine. 2 quarts doesn't harm, of course. Here is the May 1915 instruction:

 

The transmission has no valve or plug on the side but two threaded holes in the bottom: One is the drain plug, the other is the overflow-pipe with a valve at the lower end. It works similar to the engine: open the valve, fill from top until it flows out from that pipe. Hope your car has this pipe and valve installed?

[ak]

Frank, in 1914 Locomobile had a wet clutch. 

The manual provides very specific instructions on the proper recipe and quantities of oil, being both 3 in 1 oil and Kerosene.

That being said, the parts book provides for a conversion kit to change wet clutch to dry clutch.  I suspect the conversion kit had a drain plug in it that would alert the mechanic to the fact that the clutch had been converted so that one would not introduce oil into the oil fill hole on a formerly wet clutch that had been converted to dry. 

John  

[ak]

Fill the transmission to the level of the standpipe visible when one removes the fill plug.  The fill plug is a large brass square plug on the left side of the car.  The standpipe is visible by looking into the fill plug toward the right side of the car.  It is directly north of the plug on the bottom of the transmission, near the place where you would suspect the fill hole would be north of it, that seems to have no purpose.  It is connected to a standpipe.  There is no external plug to determine "full".  

 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

15 minutes ago, ak said:

Frank, in 1914 Locomobile had a wet clutch. 

The manual provides very specific instructions on the proper recipe and quantities of oil, being both 3 in 1 oil and Kerosene.

That being said, the parts book provides for a conversion kit to change wet clutch to dry clutch.  I suspect the conversion kit had a drain plug in it that would alert the mechanic to the fact that the clutch had been converted so that one would not introduce oil into the oil fill hole on a formerly wet clutch that had been converted to dry. 

John  

You are absolutely correct, John, that is why I added the year of my manual: May 1915, for the 1916 season. I don't have a 1914 manual, hoping that the engine and transmission infos could help. Maybe the fluid filling quantities also changed?

In any case the new owner must analyze his car in detail, in order to understand: What is left original, what has been converted to a later Locomobile design, and what does not belong to Locomobile.

[BR320]

I have all the fluids filled and have been driving the car.  Everything works as it should with the exception of the generator.  Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a two-brush generator with three output poles labeled G, N and P?

The generator ohms out but I believe the previous mechanic removed the cutout relay and replaced it with a solid-state regulator.  I am still tracking that one down.

It looks like I have the original wet clutch and when I had the oil pan off, I found several number stampings.  I believe the block was cast on 8-22-13. 

Thanks for all of your responses as they have been valuable towards getting this car back on the road. 

[alsfarms]

Can you post a video of your Locomobile running?

Al

Edited October 16, 2023 by alsfarms
spelling (see edit history)

[BR320]

Here is a brief video of the engine running.  Notice I still have the generator off, but I believe I am getting closer to getting it functional. I had to shrink the video to get it on the platform, but the quality is still OK.

 

https://etldallas.sharefile.com/d-s4f7f621d3dbc40dc9e53cfe76e8dfdba

[alsfarms]

Nice video clip. More of us need to video plus still images. Your Locomobile is certainly very clean under the hood!  As you venture out on the road, how does your clutch and transmission sound and behave?

Al

[BR320]

Clutch, transmission are very quiet for the style, not really noisy.  The brakes work well but a little scary with only rear wheel effort. The transmission shifts surprisingly well for a sliding gear setup. The only thing that makes it difficult to drive is the gas pedal being located between the clutch and brake pedal.  I have seen this setup on other old cars but never driven one. It takes some practice to drive with your left foot on the accelerator.  This may get changed in the future but for now I am leaving it alone as it looks like it came from the factory with this setup.

I just finished LED brake and turn signals on it as it had nothing except headlights and one taillight.  Hoping to find some more period correct lights for the rear to replace the modern ones I had to use.   

[alsfarms]

If you browse around you should be able to locate a pair of octagonal either cowl lamps or taillamps that could be repurposed as taillights. Have you put enough run time to determine the internal condition of the radiator?

Al

[John Bloom]

7 hours ago, BR320 said:

Here is a brief video of the engine running.  Notice I still have the generator off, but I believe I am getting closer to getting it functional. I had to shrink the video to get it on the platform, but the quality is still OK.

 

https://etldallas.sharefile.com/d-s4f7f621d3dbc40dc9e53cfe76e8dfdba

She sounds just great.  

[BR320]

I have run the engine both static and driving for about one hour without turning it off.  The thermal heat gun shows the water to leaving the block to be around 145f to 165f with an ambient of 95f.  The flow the radiator looks good.  I just got my new ignition switch in and hope I can get enough parts from the two to make one operational on the battery side.

[BR320]

Just got back from the Glidden Tour.  I took the Locomobile instead of a Packard and had a great time.  We drove it about 500 miles and the car performed well.  I had a problem with the magneto Tuesday night when failed at the hotel. I took it apart and discovered a lot of oil in the point section and behind the armature which had shorted out the mica/bakelight insulator in the points block.  I must have over oiled it, or it was overoiled in the past.  Regardless I put a 6-volt coil and condenser on it using the battery side points and the engine ran well.  I considered it a successful shakedown run as it used no oil and the transmission stopped leaking from the front seal.

I am looking for a few items after this tour.  

Another magneto ether rebuilt or as a core. Needs to be the dual coil setup as well as any parts such as points, condenser, rotor and cap.

One extra rim. I have 36X5 tires.

At least one but preferably four wheel cores to be rebuilt or a set of good ones.  My front right is creaking and working at the hub. It looks like the wood has shrunk with age or it was run with a loose flange at some point, the other three are fine.

Thanks

[Loco 90]

Congratulations on your successful maiden voyage. Please keep us posted. Ben

[alsfarms]

How about posting a few pictures of the Glidden Tour?

Al

[jrbartlett]

I was on the Glidden and followed the blue Loco several times. It was consistently running 50-55 MPH with absolutely no smoke. It made the entire tour with some tweaking in the evenings. It was a great debut for a newly owned car. 

[alsfarms]

Hello James, What were you driving on the Glidden Tour this year?

Al

[jrbartlett]

'29 Packard Super 8 roadster. I cruised at 50 -- it will cruise faster, but is comfortable at that speed. 20-inch wheels and 4.06-to-1 rear end ratio.