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1914 and 1917 Locomobiles for sale at Nebraska auction, June 20, 2023


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Posted

Hmmm, I had not caught that. Straight off a I-H "M" farm tractor. I am appreciate the gauge even though it is out of place on the Locomobile. What money does this group think the Blue Roadster is going to bring as compared against the more authentic Mark Smith sedan?

Al

Posted

 

Apples and oranges to the Mark Smith sedan........I was bidding on the sedan, I won't be bidding on the floor sweepings.  

Posted
7 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Apples and oranges to the Mark Smith sedan........I was bidding on the sedan, I won't be bidding on the floor sweepings.  

It’s a bit of a shame because it’s on a good chassis. Ended up being a kind of high end rat rod.

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Posted


 

I don’t have a problem with floor sweepings or a rat rod, as long as it’s advertised and listed openly in the auction listing. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, edinmass said:


 

I don’t have a problem with floor sweepings or a rat rod, as long as it’s advertised and listed openly in the auction listing. 

The 1917 appears to be a real car. They have it as a 48 and it’s dash tag is a 38. Who’s running that show.

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, George K said:

The 1917 appears to be a real car. They have it as a 48 and it’s dash tag is a 38. Who’s running that show.


Me, and my pals……AJ & Tom. That’s me in the center with my diagnostic equipment for ignition systems.

 

 

 

167CF195-15CC-4132-94C2-D8688CCE1C5B.png

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Posted

Has anyone reached out to the auction company to get clarification on exactly what the touring car is?  Once again, buyer beware, but the Locomobile should NOT be misrepresented as being something it is not. Value and price is different between the 48 and 38.

Al

  • Like 1
Posted
14 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Has anyone reached out to the auction company to get clarification on exactly what the touring car is?  Once again, buyer beware, but the Locomobile should NOT be misrepresented as being something it is not. Value and price is different between the 48 and 38.

Al


Al, your question just reinforces my comments about the collection and auction. Just multiply it by 90 percent of the cars. Caveat emptor is the quote of the day.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
Dear all, I like to comment on the question of 38-48. When my friend Chris Batty who owns the yellow 1917-model 38 speedster type R-7 flew in to inspect and learn from my two model 48 Locos, we spent some time trying to figure out the difference between the engines. It is really hard without measuring certain dimensions! The 38 looks so similar, just slightly smaller:
1. length of crankcase from near the flywheel to the front of the timing cover: 94cm on the 38, 103.5cm on the 48.
2. width of the aluminum timing gear cover: 53cm on the 38, 61cm on the 48.
3. cylinder height, measured between the top of the crankcase and the upper side of the spark plug cap: 32.8cm on the 38, 35.4cm on my 48.
The exhaust pipe diameters are also slightly smaller on the 38.
Look at these cylinder block photos: The first photo is the Nebraska-tourer and the second is my model 1917 type M-7 (at that moment without spark plugs): On the 38 you find the distance between the valves caps smaller, the shape (radius) of the block near the water cover is different, the water cover boss (where the pipe is bolted on) is obviously different.
Hope this is of some help.

 

engine right side 2d.jpg

engine right side 2d frank.jpg

Edited by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Posted

Frank,

   Hi thanks. I was hoping there would be some visual difference to differentiate the 38 from 48 given displacement differences on the engines. I think this supports the NE car to be a 38 and probably somewhere the collection erroneously labelled it a 48. I was trying to check the wheelbase with my calipers using a couple of the profile views. Unfortunately I couldn't convincingly tell with some photo distortion at only a 3 inch difference in wheelbase. The 38 should have smaller front tires and I was trying to use that as a standard reference, multiplying x4 to get to 144 which is just over the 143 of the 48's wb versus 140 of the 38. I seemed to come up 5-6 inches short suggesting a 38 but not good enough to report here. The tires may have been incorrectly changed though and there's an older left rear tire on it. Anyhow I figured if the CIA can do exacting photo-analysis I should be able to too!😄

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  • 5 weeks later...
Posted
On 4/26/2023 at 9:14 AM, George K said:

Doubtful at best. Why would you need to create a bastardized radiator to accommodate the cowl. Upright spare tire suggests it was a touring or closed body originally. Steering column angle is cast into the steering box on Locomobiles. 987107E4-AB5A-4890-9E51-165BE839C00E.jpeg.6abc63062ee46f5fec3c51d4aea0fed7.jpegD25CB7AF-EEA2-4F8F-BE6D-A95F300D0FFE.jpeg.6c58051199d367b5c0723b036018b46e.jpegD97CDF27-DC6E-48DC-AAD9-5FF71AC16054.jpeg.c4f40f1f8970cd4998dc223746f10db2.jpegEE2F84A8-12F9-441F-9A23-0D46E9AF85D6.jpeg.a5112d500b80a7499a676cd62640bfee.jpegpRoadsters had a lower column angle. This car has the upright angle of a multi passenger car.

Check this out. What I called bastardized maybe in fact a 38 radiator. If so maybe both cars in the auction are 38’s? Have the ever showed any # for the roadster? Still a weird car but I want to show this as my review of the radiator maybe to harsh and incorrect.2F01449F-9695-4E6C-A82D-B64941854189.jpeg.14df71b60abeeeda2aecfe1c9cd3f6f4.jpeg

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Posted

This a very good thought on radiators. Especially considering the later 38's.  This one, if it is representative, has a very much more visible arch to the top tank of the radiator. I must admit, I am very illiterate when it comes to the 38 model.

Al

Posted

38 Locomobile cars are not something I have perused. But these two examples are the best of the unmolested 1916 38’s. Both share the this variant radiator. These models were the work of DeCausse who was at Locomobile in late 1914 to run the custom body studio designs. First one sold for 400k I think in 2019. 4EA56992-5F16-4445-A848-A2B437C2F258.jpeg.ff8375cfd039fa518345afb45e728180.jpeg9AECD59A-9766-4C68-961E-BE16C7DB1085.jpeg.a06e4684914710eb752762e9488f54f9.jpeg

71CAA1CD-9316-4456-B051-68C6EC5B66A0.jpeg

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Posted

George,

In the past when I was hunting for a radiator for my 1909 Model L Locomobile. I was offered and purchased, now what I thought was a 48, but it has the high arc and rounded top tank of these 38's. It was my plan to rework that radiator to the correct configuration of the Model L if I could not the find the correct unit. Well, I rumored among several Locomobile owners, low and behold, amazingly, one had a Model L radiator and was suddenly more than happy to trade but did not offer to sell to me. The power of a trade can not be understated! 

Al

Posted

Al,

There has always been a high value placed on non ferrous antique automobile parts. In particular radiators due to damage and cost of time and money to reproduce. Locomobile four cylinder are much rarer than the six cylinder version.

 

That said 1916 38 custom body Locomobile’s appear to have a unique radiator. Here’s a picture of a custom body 1916 48. It has the round DeCausse radiator but larger core.  Why does The Nebraska so called 1914 roadster have a 1916 variant 38 radiator? The 1917 Nebraska 38 shares the what appears to be the same version as the 1916 48.

 

Locomobile project cars are few and far between. The ones that are around have been for a least 40-50 years. Trading brass spare parts like you did is a more than one in a million chance.4CC71A70-6A75-48B3-813E-F7F1E85CB8E5.jpeg.2d1e75612adffcc9a4367a3d279a3400.jpegCC82AC2F-3B96-406C-B647-F913E81E2513.jpeg.9cbf13ace3259f90d17bdef832b695af.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
"1. length of crankcase from near the flywheel to the front of the timing cover: 94cm on the 38, 103.5cm on the 48.
2. width of the aluminum timing gear cover: 53cm on the 38, 61cm on the 48.
3. cylinder height, measured between the top of the crankcase and the upper side of the spark plug cap: 32.8cm on the 38, 35.4cm on my 48."
 
The above are measurements Frank posted on April 28th
 
Today I noticed the center to center measurements between the front and rear crankcase mounting holes are also different.
The model 38 being 31 7/8" and the Model 48 being 34"
 
This is a helpful measurement in that it's an easy way to check a chassis and determine what it is/was.
  
Based on this one measurement it turns out my air ride chassis must have been a Model 38 when new and a Model 48 engine isn't just a bolt in.   
 
Wish I new this a while ago!
 
Edited by rydersclassics (see edit history)
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Posted
5 hours ago, rydersclassics said:
"1. length of crankcase from near the flywheel to the front of the timing cover: 94cm on the 38, 103.5cm on the 48.
2. width of the aluminum timing gear cover: 53cm on the 38, 61cm on the 48.
3. cylinder height, measured between the top of the crankcase and the upper side of the spark plug cap: 32.8cm on the 38, 35.4cm on my 48."
 
The above are measurements Frank posted on April 28th
 
Today I noticed the center to center measurements between the front and rear crankcase mounting holes are also different.
The model 38 being 31 7/8" and the Model 48 being 34"
 
This is a helpful measurement in that it's an easy way to check a chassis and determine what it is/was.
  
Based on this one measurement it turns out my air ride chassis must have been a Model 38 when new and a Model 48 engine isn't just a bolt in.   
 
Wish I new this a while ago!
 

Off the cuff thought, doesn't the 48 have script "Locomobile" on the top water plates, 38 does not?

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Posted
On 6/10/2023 at 4:34 AM, ak said:

Off the cuff thought, doesn't the 48 have script "Locomobile" on the top water plates, 38 does not?

I think you are right, John! I didn't notice until now: Because there is much less space available on the 38's water cover castings, I've not found a Loco script on any of them.

IMG_0674 (2).jpg

1916_Locomobile_M38_CR_16_ifolue (2).jpg

73899959-770-0@2X (2).jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 6/24/2023 at 5:57 AM, prewarnut said:

It looks like the 38 Roadster sold for $86,500 and the tourer $59,000. at Steffes.

If the Locomobile script on the water domes are 48. That roadster was a 48 with a 1916 38 radiator. That was my point.AA2C7C74-617E-40B6-9EE8-2483FA1E8A20.jpeg.1a4f4ea5eb0d139c1795219b758f1f88.jpeg61F6C4AB-258E-40A3-935A-F842764A4BFB.jpeg.381f82c53598aff1588df9d268ec3bd4.jpeg

Posted

George,

My mistake. The conversation was awhile ago so I must have forgotten what was what on the car. I'm sure the new owner will sort out  he mismatched parts.🙄

The photo identification of the two different head styles was great though for future reference.

Posted

If the touring car is a runner it was a fair deal. A photo is worth a thousand words……and lies. Hopefully all the cars went to good homes and will be driven instead of garage art. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, harley earl said:

Goodings loco @ peble beach,

 

You guys are a tough crowd here  lol  What can you tell me about this 38 roadster ?

Fantastic real car that is going to bring a large amount of money.

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Posted
On 4/27/2023 at 3:58 PM, edinmass said:


Me, and my pals……AJ & Tom. That’s me in the center with my diagnostic equipment for ignition systems.

 

 

 

167CF195-15CC-4132-94C2-D8688CCE1C5B.png

Haaaaaaaaa

 

Posted
On 6/24/2023 at 6:57 AM, prewarnut said:

It looks like the 38 Roadster sold for $86,500 and the tourer $59,000. at Steffes.

Tell me that makes sense!  Can't make it up.  Seeing is believing. 

Posted
On 6/24/2023 at 6:57 AM, prewarnut said:

It looks like the 38 Roadster sold for $86,500 and the tourer $59,000. at Steffes.

Tell me that makes sense!  Can't make it up.  Seeing is believing. 

Posted

Just for reference. 

The 1912 six or model "M" (48) was 4.5 X 4.5 X 6. 429 CID (advertised 70 actual HP)

The 1913 little six or model "R" 38 was 4.25 X 5 X 6. 425 CID (advertised 63 actual HP)

I have heard tell that some consider the 38 a red headed stepchild, what is the reasoning?

Ignorance, that is all. 

 

Posted
4 hours ago, ak said:

Just for reference. 

The 1912 six or model "M" (48) was 4.5 X 4.5 X 6. 429 CID (advertised 70 actual HP)

The 1913 little six or model "R" 38 was 4.25 X 5 X 6. 425 CID (advertised 63 actual HP)

I have heard tell that some consider the 38 a red headed stepchild, what is the reasoning?

Ignorance, that is all. 

 


Actual numbers become irrelevant to many collectors who only the best……..personally a small Loco or Pierce are just fine, but they don’t check all the boxes…….and thus they suffer weather they deserve to, or not.

 

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, edinmass said:


Actual numbers become irrelevant to many collectors who only the best……..personally a small Loco or Pierce are just fine, but they don’t check all the boxes…….and thus they suffer weather they deserve to, or not.

 

 

I expect the one that Gooding has  to do very well. Even though it’s a 38.

Posted


Im told the motor is stuck from the plugs being left out for twenty five years. And I got an update on the Loco sedan from the Smith auction. Call me tomorrow.

Posted
On 6/30/2023 at 9:29 PM, edinmass said:


Im told the motor is stuck from the plugs being left out for twenty five years. And I got an update on the Loco sedan from the Smith auction. Call me tomorrow.

So what. I see they lost one.519F4AA0-A7EB-468C-8198-61233EFAF6C6.png.c5599b938c89af69b769b027544f04c9.png

Posted
On 6/30/2023 at 9:49 PM, edinmass said:


Actual numbers become irrelevant to many collectors who only the best……..personally a small Loco or Pierce are just fine, but they don’t check all the boxes…….and thus they suffer weather they deserve to, or not.

 

 

A 425 CID brass car with 62 hp a "small" Locomobile, c'mon man!   

Posted

What is now the result from that Nebraska auction? Where did the Locos go to? What is really the condition of these two cars? Clean the fuel tank, install new batteries, and go? Or nicely painted museums corpse? Hopefully the new owners will tell us something. You are welcome!

Posted
On 7/3/2023 at 11:13 AM, ak said:

A 425 CID brass car with 62 hp a "small" Locomobile, c'mon man!   


Reality is what it is………. 425 is a small engine in the world big cars.

Posted
1 hour ago, edinmass said:


Reality is what it is………. 425 is a small engine in the world big cars.

1916 Indianapolis 500 cubic inch restriction was 300 cubic inches. Previous restriction was 450 cubic inch.  Just saying.

Posted
1 hour ago, George K said:

1916 Indianapolis 500 cubic inch restriction was 300 cubic inches. Previous restriction was 450 cubic inch.  Just saying.

 

Understood……..the times were changing, as were engine designs. I’m still partial to the 825 CID production cars…..👍
 

 

IMG_1241.png

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Posted
2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Understood……..the times were changing, as were engine designs. I’m still partial to the 825 CID production cars…..👍
 

 

IMG_1241.png

Me too.6E98E457-96CF-47E7-BA7D-F565BC978B06.jpeg.761cb1a210450185a7d9809de06417ec.jpegE4331438-0312-44B0-B543-B4086311125E.jpeg.48bc305748f84c38179f6fc41acd1b7b.jpeg

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