1914 and 1917 Locomobiles for sale at Nebraska auction, June 20, 2023

[edinmass]

So they admit in the description that they’re cheap and don’t like to put money in their cars. If you owned 200 cars and you were only upside down in one, what’s that say about the quality in the curation of the collection??

 

also, the only car he chose to totally restore was a re-bodied pile of manure.  So much for intelligence.  

Edited April 19, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mechanician]

But it’s the only one with aluminum round bar pedal pads, a rare and significant development!

[George K]

Those smooth pedals are really nice with wet shoes. Bet your ankle gets hit pretty hard. Must of been an option.

[alsfarms]

I like the small size that works real well with big feet. Reminds me of Henry Ford's Model T.

 

[prewarnut]

3 hours ago, mechanician said:

But it’s the only one with aluminum round bar pedal pads, a rare and significant development!

At least they didn't drill them for weight reduction.😄

[Ittenbacher Frank]

On 4/19/2023 at 10:55 PM, mechanician said:

But it’s the only one with aluminum round bar pedal pads, a rare and significant development!

their green Loco got square shape aluminum pedal pads...

[rydersclassics]

Do you think the used an early core and extended the top tank to match a cowl?  

 

early

late

[George K]

late because big cap.

[George K]

If you compare both 1915 and 1917 hood open shots you can see the hood is not a Locomobile hood on the 1915. The 1917 is original.

[George K]

This is from a 1915 Locomobile parts book on the Bridgeport Library. This is what a correct 1915 Locomobile hood consists of.

[ak]

The Locomobile chassis was very expensive.  As I understand it, it was commonplace for owners to send their car back to the factory to be re-bodied, to resemble the latest model styling or to change the entire configuration.  The six cylinder T head engines and chassis were essentially unchanged from 1911 to the end of production.  All body wiring was connected to the chassis by quick-disconnect connectors which would enable easy body swapping between seasons.  

[alsfarms]

That is an interesting observation. I wonder what percentage of Locomobile automobiles actually would have been updated in that described manner? I do know of certainty that the upscale fire truck, that is the firetruck equal to Locomobile, American-LaFrance was much more likely to be refitted by the factory in the same manner you have described. I have a 6 cylinder American-LaFrance rig ordered by a Utah township in 1912 and delivered in 1913. In the early 1940's it was sent back to the factory to be updated. It went back as a short wheelbase hose car and came back as a long wheelbase city service aerial ladder truck. I am acquiring enough of the right pieces to restore it back as a hose car as it is too long to find storage in my shop!  I would like to learn more, from a historical perspective, on factory refitted Locomobiles.

Al

[JV Puleo]

I don't doubt it was done but I do doubt it was common. If it were, we'd see a lot more early...i.e. brass cars with 1920s body work. These were extremely prestigious cars...in a class with the RR Silver Ghost. They were sold into a market that could afford, and likely prided itself on having the latest and best very few of whom were any kind of "car enthusiast." They were popular for making into trucks so it's more likely that quite a few of the open Loco's or the bare chassis had some sort of truck conversion.

[Walt G]

Austin Clark had a 1907 Locomobile express truck. I bought it from him. It was a passenger car that had been converted to an open express truck ( no cab , just a flat seat) when it was about 15 years old by the Derham Body Company for the Ardmore Garage of Ardmore, Pa. to use as a service truck for them to go get tires etc. The fenders, lamps were changed to something more modern  . Austin kept it as the express truck style and I started to bring it back to the original lamp and fender configuration . I made new fenders, bought and restored all the proper lamps, made and installed a new dashboard, had the radiator shell repaired ( had a big dent in the  top water tank.  I then had heart trouble and was told to do any further ' heavy work ' was not allowed , so sold the truck /car to a fellow here on long island and the last I saw it , it had been through several owners and had a town car body on it.

[alsfarms]

Walt, I am sure many folks have seen earlier pictures of the 1907 Locomobile "truck" as owned by A. Clark. It would be nice to see this Locomobile in it's current body configuration and status. I have forgotten, is this automobile a Model H or a Model I?

Al

[JV Puleo]

Further to the above...Locomobile did take older cars back as trade-ins. These were overhauled and may were rebodied as delivery trucks or fire apparatus. They went so far as to advertise this service, at least in the 1912 "Locomobile Book" which is, effectively, a hard-cover sales catalog. If any of these have survived I very much doubt they still have their commercial body. Probably the roadster in this sale was one and was later "improved" with a body taken off another car.

[Walt G]

Model I, the larger 4 cylinder machine.

I have no idea who owns the car now. I owned it over 40 years ago.

Last I saw it , it was for sale at Hershey in the field where I believe the stadium now sits.

I spent a lot of hours bringing back and restoring the lamps, fenders, firewall. A friend was the one that removed the shell and straightened the dent or made a new top tank face for it.

[alsfarms]

My how time flies....

Al

[George K]

10 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

Further to the above...Locomobile did take older cars back as trade-ins. These were overhauled and may were rebodied as delivery trucks or fire apparatus. They went so far as to advertise this service, at least in the 1912 "Locomobile Book" which is, effectively, a hard-cover sales catalog. If any of these have survived I very much doubt they still have their commercial body. Probably the roadster in this sale was one and was later "improved" with a body taken off another car.

Doubtful at best. Why would you need to create a bastardized radiator to accommodate the cowl. Upright spare tire suggests it was a touring or closed body originally. Steering column angle is cast into the steering box on Locomobiles. pRoadsters had a lower column angle. This car has the upright angle of a multi passenger car.

[alsfarms]

I guess we will never know for sure the "what" and "why" of this blue roadster. Maybe, in the future, some one will choose to do a full on, cost not considered, restoration of a 1914 Locomobile and base it on this chassis. Wayne Coffman, god rest his soul, did such a thing on his beautiful 1914 Locomobile touring car. It can happen......

Al

[ak]

2 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Further to the above...Locomobile did take older cars back as trade-ins. These were overhauled and may were rebodied as delivery trucks or fire apparatus. They went so far as to advertise this service, at least in the 1912 "Locomobile Book" which is, effectively, a hard-cover sales catalog. If any of these have survived I very much doubt they still have their commercial body. Probably the roadster in this sale was one and was later "improved" with a body taken off another car.

Locomobile advertised "Exchange Cars" which were used Locomobiles completely rebuilt with new guarantees.  I have a copy of the Locomobile "Book of Exchange Cars"  which I ought to publish here. 

[alsfarms]

John, 

This is a good place post Locomobile Exchange Automobiles in order to learn more about how they were rebuilt and put back on the market.

Al

[Tavernstand1734]

First time posting here so pardon any ignorance!!  I have a question however after following this discussion for a few days now.  After seeing the auction site posting 100 photos the other day I noticed the Brass tag on the instrument panel for the Green 1917 Loco 48 which appears to indicate "Type 38-2" and "Series 3".  I know very little about Locomobiles so any education related to this nomenclature and other telltale differences between 38's and 48's would be appreciated!

 

[George K]

This is a good place to start. 

[George K]

1 hour ago, Tavernstand1734 said:

First time posting here so pardon any ignorance!!  I have a question however after following this discussion for a few days now.  After seeing the auction site posting 100 photos the other day I noticed the Brass tag on the instrument panel for the Green 1917 Loco 48 which appears to indicate "Type 38-2" and "Series 3".  I know very little about Locomobiles so any education related to this nomenclature and other telltale differences between 38's and 48's would be appreciated!

 

The 48/38 refers to engine displacement and hp. The tag is what the factory #’s and model are.

[Tavernstand1734]

A perfect start thank you!  What I am getting towards with the green 1917 "48" in Nebraska in this discussion is that it is either a 48 or a 38?  That is to say either the Museum & Auction Company need to sort out if the Factory tag is wrong (as it says "38-2") or if the tag is right and it needs to be described as as 38 instead?  By telltale I would mean to a somewhat trained eye, such things as on a 38 the Cylinder Jugs are X inches wide and on a 48 they are X+2 inches wide.. or the Cylinder Jugs reach a certain point on the firewall on the 38 compared to the 48...  By the above Specifications the wheel base of 140" compared to 143" would be a good indication but maybe not always the case?  Asking and not saying all this.

[George K]

Those pages are for 1916 Locomobiles. Generally correct for the next couple of years. Can you see the serial numbers on the plate? If so post and there are factory records that will tell. Most likely a 38. Is the car for sale titled? Looks like a fairly intact car.Good luck.

[prewarnut]

   The exchange program has never been in doubt. What is dubious is the bastardized hood with rounded part that is tapered more towards the radiator and doesn't quite match the radius profile of the cowl (at least as it appears in some of the photos).

 

   From the NY Sun 6/15/15:

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by prewarnut (see edit history)

[George K]

Just for comparison. 1914 real radiator vs. Nebraska radiator 

[alsfarms]

George,

Is the green 1914 Locomobile the ex Wayne Coffman car. I can't remember if his was light green or dark green.

Al

 

 

[Loco 90]

I thought this was an interesting advertisement. It talks about a 1930 Locomobile.

[edinmass]

 

Interesting that the 14 roadster has a photo posted with a RM Auction watermark........yet there is no history of it that I can find ever being in one of their auctions. Strange.....

[George K]

Tag on the 1917 green Locomobile in the Nebraska auction. From the Locomobile Society list it doesn’t line up with their #s. One would believe the dash plate and the car tells the truth. I believe the Locomobile Society might be off line. Or at least I can’t access it.

[George K]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

Interesting that the 14 roadster has a photo posted with a RM Auction watermark........yet there is no history of it that I can find ever being in one of their auctions. Strange.....

Which photo?

[alsfarms]

Photo posted 23 hours ago shows the Auction Watermark mentioned by Ed.

Al

[ak]

11 hours ago, alsfarms said:

George,

Is the green 1914 Locomobile the ex Wayne Coffman car. I can't remember if his was light green or dark green.

Al

 

 

John Gilette perhaps?

[George K]

8 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Photo posted 23 hours ago shows the Auction Watermark mentioned by Ed.

Al

This photo? If so it was only for reference of what a real 1914 dash looks like. It is of this car.

[George K]

Here’s the suspect 1914 in the Nebraska auction. Nice huh. I especially like the swing out hardware store brass hing for a hood prop.

[edinmass]

 

 

Ok.....my mistake.........thanks George! I was thinking that RM would never sell a car like the blue 14 roadster..............just not their business plan. They only sell stuff with proven provenance. I tell lots of people....look who is selling it...(auction house) as if it was really something good or special, the cars if going to auction usually end up at RM or Gooding...........anywhere else, its caveat emptor. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Someone did put some thought into the building of the blue roadster. I actually think the brass hinge modified to function as a hood prop is rather creative. If I were to complete my Wisconsin powered speedster, I would use that idea! I wonder what the wood box is used for? I suspect it is a very custom coil box. 

Al