Scott Lambert Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) I recently inherited a 1909 Lambert Automobile which belonged to my father Jack Lambert who restored the car. It has not been driven in twenty-eight years. I am looking for suggestions on what to do with car. It has to be moved from its current location by May 6th. Edited April 11, 2023 by Scott Lambert typo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Scott, congratulations but you need to spell out to the folks on here what you mean by "what to do with car". No one would know if you are meaning getting the car running, selling, keeping, etc. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 And where are you located? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) That was a rather famous car along with the fellow that drove it. Hope you plan to keep it. Bob Edited April 11, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Scott, I looked up Lambert in the Encyclopedia of Motorcars and along with the Lambert history, there is a picture of a Lambert. The picture looks like it was taken inside the HERSHEY stadium, at one of the early HERSHEY meets. The car has a New York license plate affixed to the front spreader bar and looks like the date of the plate is 1958. With the rarity of Lambert's, I wonder if this could be the same car as the one we are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lambert Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 The car is located in Amherst, NY in the garage attached to my late parents house. My father loved this car and travelling around the country with it. I would like to sell it to someone who has the same passion or antique automobiles. I am not sure if it is the same car in the photo inside the Hershey stadium. Dad's car had NYS plates and the plate name was LAMBERT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) Like this one, perhaps? Gorgeous car!! Edited April 11, 2023 by lump (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 The picture in the Encyclopedia is in black and white, so it's hard to come up with a color, but the plate is not "LAMBERT" but 4E-728. Now, the license plate in the picture is dated 1958, so that was before NYSDMV allowed personal plates. It's hard to imagine two 1909 lamberts from New York as rare as they are, it might be the same car. Do you know how many Lambert's were in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Scott can you post some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lambert Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 The car is located in Amherst, NY in the garage attached to my late parents house. My father loved this car and travelling around the country with it. I would like to sell it to someone who has the same passion or antique automobiles. I am not sure if it is the same car in the photo inside the Hershey stadium. Dad's car had NYS plates and the plate name was LAMBERT. Yes, that is Dad's car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) Scott, I think the best place to advertise it for sale is the website (and/or magazine) of the Horseless Carriage Club of America. That large club is the friendly home for anyone who appreciates pre-1916 cars. Many obscure makes can be found here. Here is a link to their website and the for-sale ads there: https://hcca.org/Classifieds/classifieds.php It's often better to get a car operating well before selling, but I would not recommend that in your case: Knowledge of early cars isn't common, and you can't trust its mechanics to the average Joe's Garage. A dedicated early-car fan would be happy to buy it as it is, and take the time and care to get it running; and many such fans have that specialized knowledge. Don't sell it in a fire-sale to the first low-baller. Price it reasonably. If you have to have it removed from its current location, find another location where it will be safe until it's sold. It could be winched into a trailer for transport if it's not running. Edited April 11, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) If your father has spare parts to the Lambert, be sure to include them in the sale--and mention that when you advertise it. Parts like those are likely unobtainable elsewhere, and they will be appreciated very much by the next careful owner. Also, all records--receipts, business cards, notes, manuals, sales literature, etc.--that your father may have should also be passed along. People like to know the history of their car and its restoration, and they may be very helpful for the next owner when working on the car. Edited April 11, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lambert Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 Thank you! This is great advice and I will follow it. There are spare parts and a tool box and everything, including some awards and the trailer will be included in the sale. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) If you can take several pictures of the Lambert's current condition, we might be able to suggest a realistic value for it. Exterior pictures from a few angles; interior; and engine compartment, will help us help you further. And, for ethical reasons, no one who appraises a car must ever be allowed to buy it. That would be a conflict of interest. "Widow Smith, I think your 1912 Packard is worth $10,000. I'll buy it!" But, with all the opinions and expertise here, you shouldn't need an appraiser for selling it. Edited April 11, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Scott, you can also advertise the car on this site for free. AACA has a large brass car family and several rare brass cars have changed hands through this site. John Lambert won his First Junior in Waterloo, IA in 1962. According to the class it was in that would make it a 2-cylinder and a Model A1 which is a 20 HP car. I think this could be a relatively easy car to estimate its value based upon comparables of similar rare, low horsepower cars that have recently sold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 20 horsepower is a big 2cyl car. 1&2 cyl cars tend to be on tours of their own and this lambert would be one of the big cars. A large 2cyl, friction drive, Indiana built brass era car checks all the boxes for me, but I am not in a position to pursue. Two brass era cars is already too many for me in the child raising years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 When early automobile hobbyists casually discuss "friction drive" automobiles, the two marques that first jump into mind are Cartercar and Metz. Among the early car crowd, those are the two best known. However, there were actually dozens of others! In the early days technology, friction drive was a simple economical and easy to manufacture without the cost of expensive gears! A significant percentage of high wheel buggy type automobiles were in fact friction drive, as well as the Orient automobiles (forerunners to the Metz!). The Sears and the Schacht were friction drive, and a few high wheeler types offered an option or differing models with some friction drive and others not (usually a planetary type). The Lambert, however, was a major (by measures comparable to the era!) producer of friction drive automobiles! And they built a large variety of models and styles from those same high wheeler farm types through small light "conventional" style runabouts, right on up to even a quite large high horsepower touring car! A few years ago (what, four or five years ago now?), there was an estate sale that included at least five Lambert automobiles including one of those big touring cars! Most were mostly unrestored and needed quite a bit of restoration work. I knew someone that was doing some restoration work on the big touring car (for the new owner, although I was never told who the new owner was), but never heard where any of the others went. The rest of the cars I have no idea where they went. Including two from the old William Harrah collections, I have personally seen four or five Lamberts myself. Very nice cars for their original price range! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Trucker Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) FYI and reference, here's a 1913 Lambert 66C offered about a year ago. No price or history listed. More Lambert automobile info: https://www.google.com/search?q=lambert&rlz=1CAEAQE_enUS748US748&oq=lambert&aqs=chrome..69i59j69i57j0i433i512j0i131i433i512j46i175i199i433i512j46i131i175i199i433i650j69i60l2.16374j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Edited April 11, 2023 by Crusty Trucker (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Scott Lambert said: Thank you! This is great advice and I will follow it. There are spare parts and a tool box and everything, including some awards and the trailer will be included in the sale. Scott, at the risk of going off topic, I well remember your father. A real gentleman. He , along with John Caperton, Tom Smith and John Stinger and others acted as my mentors when I first started touring. A great bunch of men, well remembered. Zeke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modela28 Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 Here is an unrestored 1908 Lambert. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 That is the big (said to be 40hp?) touring car! Here is an era photograph of one, harvested from somewhere on the net years ago. Sorry my photos program doesn't record proper acknowledgements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 Scott, Welcome … I hope you keep The Family Legacy alive Have someone familiar with the car disengage the drive - then try to gently rock the vehicle forward & backward to see if it rolls freely See if it will easily turn but don’t force the steering mechanism If the tires hold air - try to inflate them slowly with a low pressure pump Get an accurate measurement from grade to the tallest point on the car Make sure everything in the garage is collected & packaged for moving Save Everything - Discard Nothing Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 I had nice friendly a visit today with the seller of the Lambert . I am 50 miles from the car and was interested until I heard the price of $50,000. I still like but I don't understand the price. Maybe Im out of touch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, mikewest said: I had nice friendly a visit today with the seller of the Lambert . I am 50 miles from the car and was interested until I heard the price of $50,000. I still like but I don't understand the price. Maybe Im out of touch.... I think it would have to be a fairly fresh restoration (or a very well maintained older one) and running and driving to command a number like that, but if it were correct, shiny, and ready to enjoy that would be about the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, gossp said: I think it would have to be a fairly fresh restoration (or a very well maintained older one) and running and driving to command a number like that, but if it were correct, shiny, and ready to enjoy that would be about the number. It was restored in 1958 and hasn't run in 28 years. Its a 2 cylinder , friction drive car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 2cyl and friction drive are positives to me. My father had a couple Cartercars in years past and I am more than comfortable with the platform. My guess is the price is about double or more what it should be with how long it has been static. Still a very neat car. Did you happen to take any pics that aren’t from when the restoration was fresh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 If Scott is thinking of $50,000, I wonder where he got that advice. Scott, you should realize that ASKING prices these days are many times ludicrous, double the realistic value, or even more. I don't see that excess so much among the early cars, but SELLING prices are the real determinant. Please don't be misled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 That’s the asking price for Cadillacs and 2 cylinder Buicks of the same year Not that way out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 After sitting for 28 Years also getting it running would help in a sale. I'm sure the first thing it will need tires as they are old. There is a lot to take in account. If you want someone to look it over and get it running I may be game. PM me if so. My wife and I could look around Niagara Falls as I see you are close. I have a lot of experience working on early stuff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dandy Dave said: After sitting for 28 Years also getting it running would help in a sale. That's true, but I advised against it. Scott doesn't have the knowledge to work on a brass car. He would like to sell it fairly soon. Can his father's friends help him with expertise--and not trial and error--on a Lambert? Restoration shops may be booked up for many months, and the car may spend many months there, and Scott may pay thousands of dollars for their work. Maybe there aren't even brass-era restoration shops near him, and the car will have to be transported 200 miles to the right place. Dave, if you can help, that would be magnanimous! Otherwise, for his sake, I say sell it as it is, and let the next careful collector lavish the love it needs. Edited April 13, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) The OP joined to sell a car on short notice that was owned by his Father. The OP says the car has to be moved by May 6th (probably because the property either is being listed or has been sold). The OP apparently has put a valuation on the car of 50K. I would caution anyone against attempting to do any mechanical work on any vehicle that has sat for 28 years in order to get it in better condition to sell. What is best for this vehicle is not what the OP is attempting to facilitate by posting here. Jim Edited April 13, 2023 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) From what I have seen (oh so many times!) over the years in this hobby? Is that probably nine out of ten times, Any significant effort or COST to "better" a car for the purposes of selling it, wind up costing two to ten times more than any increase in the selling price! (A fool's errand?) Easily half the time, the work winds up being done by someone that knows NOTHING about antique vehicles or how to work on them! Nearly always those idiots end up doing more damage than anything good and charging many thousands of dollars for causing that damage! I have seen a dozen decent cars virtually destroyed by the mechanic or body man who was supposed to be helping the poor seller! (And the seller often paid more than the car was worth before it was ruined to wind up with something nobody would buy!) Dandy Dave is of course an exception to the rule! Edited April 13, 2023 by wayne sheldon (see edit history) 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Sorry. Stupid computer used a "magic swipe" and decided to post before I was nearly done! Dandy Dave is of course an exception to the rule! A great deal of knowledge and tremendous amount of skill working on these things. And an ethic to give good advice before committing to anything. There are several others that frequent this forum that would also be very good at bringing the car up to tour-ready! But the general rule still applies. The cost would far exceed any gain in selling value. Keeping the car and making it ready to drive and enjoy is one thing. Trying to sell it whether due to necessity or lack of interest is something else. As for value? I don't like evaluating other people's cars. However, in short, the Lambert is a rare and unusual automobile in an unusual area of the hobby (the friction drive!). But "rare and unusual" does NOT equal value in a dollars sense! There are many desirability issues that affect dollar value way more than how rare it is! In value, size does matter, a LOT! And a car's particular place in automotive history is also very important! How many races did the marque win? What especial feature were they famous for? What famous people owned them (generally speaking, not necessarily that specific car)? Another important factor is that people are herd animals. They like to "pal around" with their buddies that have a similar or same marque car! Go on some HCCA or CCCA tours. See the Maxwell owners hanging around together. The Reo crowd over there. The Pierce Arrow people are top of the heap and they know it( hey, I used to own one!😁)! Packard, Cadillac, Studebaker, or Nash. They all tend to buddy with like marques. The model T and model A Fords are the most common antique cars one can find! And they are very popular, often selling for more money than much better cars of the same era. Got a Lambert? Anywhere you go you will probably be the only one. There are a lot of people, including ME, that are fascinated by the unusual cars. Over the years, I have owned a Fuller, and a Sayers, among several not really common cars. And a lot of people do appreciate the odd marques. They will be welcomed in many clubs and most non-marque-specific tours. But most people when it comes time to buy a car want something a friend has. And THAT does affect its dollar value. Good luck! And I wish I could afford it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/12/2023 at 7:52 PM, mikewest said: I had nice friendly a visit today with the seller of the Lambert . I am 50 miles from the car and was interested until I heard the price of $50,000. I still like but I don't understand the price. Maybe Im out of touch.... Mike, Scott asked for help because he didn't know what it was worth today. His informatio from his father was at least 28 years old and ,aybe even from 1958 whrn the car was fresh, plus it was the proud fathers opinion which is always inflated. I hope you were helpful but not mean or rude. Maybe he'll get more information and call you back. I wrote a true story for Tom Cotter's book "The Cobra in the Barn", about a 32 Ford Roadster Pickup in the barn that took the buyer 50 years to buy.. Somethims it takes quite a while for the seller to know what we know. Sometimes they never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said: Mike, Scott asked for help because he didn't know what it was worth today. His informatio from his father was at least 28 years old and ,aybe even from 1958 whrn the car was fresh, plus it was the proud fathers opinion which is always inflated. I hope you were helpful but not mean or rude. Maybe he'll get more information and call you back. I wrote a true story for Tom Cotter's book "The Cobra in the Barn", about a 32 Ford Roadster Pickup in the barn that took the buyer 50 years to buy.. Somethims it takes quite a while for the seller to know what we know. Sometimes they never know. Paul, why the he'll would I be mean? I thanked him and said it was more than I would pay. I'm not a mean person,. But 50k is beyond a pipe dream 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Those of us that pay attention to all the stuff have a hard enough time figuring out values and we argue constantly. I can’t even imagine how hard it must be for someone who inherits a car and has no idea what it might be worth. I think gently helping sellers with valuations is valuable and I know that if I was on the other side I would welcome any thoughtful advice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Scott, one suggestion if I may. You mention that the car needs to be moved by May 6th, don't let that dictate your sale of the car. I would try to find a "loner" or rental garage, to take the pressure off your removal date. I don't think your $50,000 sale price is too far out of line, but a car like yours will take time to sell. As others have suggested, you will need to contact several different club's and people and that all takes time. It's quite possible that the car might realize more than $50K if you take your time with the sale. It sounds like your Dad had a lot of friends and once word gets out that the car is available, you never know who might be a potential buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, 46 woodie said: I don't think your $50,000 sale price is too far out of line, but a car like yours will take time to sell. On the Horseless Carriage Club website, I have seen realistically priced cars sell in just a few days. I'm not an expert on Lamberts or 2-cylinder cars, but asking $30,000 and accepting $25,000 for a non-running car might result in a sale. I've seen over-priced cars sit for 4 years or more for sale, and who knows how far the price finally had to come down. If Scott had work done at a restoration shop, he might not get the car in for 6-12 months; the car might be there several more months; the cost out of his pocket might be $10,000; and, after waiting all that time, who knows whether he would even recoup the cost? I recommend: Sell it to a good home for a reasonable price. Edited April 15, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: On the Horseless Carriage Club website, I have seen realistically priced cars sell in just a few days. I'm not an expert on Lamberts or 2-cylinder cars, but asking $30,000 and accepting $25,000 for a non-running car might result in a sale. I agree. A car that's not been on the road for a while takes some cash to recommission, and a seller has to figure that in the sale price. As has been mentioned, rare doesn't mean valuable, it just means rare. This is a neat car but the values mentioned above are closer to reality, in my opinion. I recently bought a car at a "bargain" price. I need a set of tires, 33x4, the ones on the car are 60 years old. A set of four tires, with tubes, is $1500 to $2500, depending on who you buy them from (33x4 now right at $300 a tire from one company, another brand is right at $500 a tire). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted April 15, 2023 Share Posted April 15, 2023 There's sometimes the temptation to set a high price and think, "There will be someone who desperately wants it. I just have to wait for that person to come along." But that is contrary to the laws of economics. At a certain price level, the quantity demanded is ZERO. And it remains zero. People have many other options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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