Mark Smith auction April 7th, this Friday, who on this forum is going?

[md murray]

11 minutes ago, alsancle said:

First Bargain. Lot 12 Stutz hammered at 46k

dude . that's a bargain.  

[auburnseeker]

Someone please post prices, along with pics of the cars.  I've been vette shopping but probably should have went here instead.  

[alsancle]

Hammer price has all the numbers.

[cxgvd]

379,000 model k

[1937hd45]

 

Is this the former Frank Buck restored Packard that was later owned by Dan Sergent? 

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, cxgvd said:

379,000 model k

That may be $100,000 over the last one that sold. Once a garage mate with my 1912 Ford. 

[1937hd45]

Were there a lot of dealers buying, will thy get to double their money. Saw a lot of cars sell short. 

[oldcarfudd]

I guess this isn't the week I buy a Model K Ford.

[wayne sheldon]

4 minutes ago, oldcarfudd said:

I guess this isn't the week I buy a Model K Ford.

I am just glad that the model K Ford is finally getting some of the respect it deserves! Early automotive historians put the car down and misrepresented the reasons for its being produced. Then for nearly a half century, most historians simply parroted what the early historians got wrong! Finally, in the recent twenty years, a couple serious historians found the truth out by researching original news reports from the model K's days, and a handful of model K owners have made the effort to properly restore their cars! What they found were fine automobiles that actually sold well, gave excellent service relative to other cars of the era, and were a great value for the original cost (again relative to other cars of the era!).

Congratulations to the new owner whoever you are!

And I hope you get many years of wonderful touring in that incredible automobile!

[CarNucopia]

The price on the Austin Bantam looked reasonable. Was it a nice car?

[1937hd45]

Some stuff was just about given away, I should pick up a catalog just for the historical record. Hope the Model K and Mercury Speedster will be out and about. Bob 

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Some stuff was just about given away, I should pick up a catalog just for the historical record. Hope the Model K and Mercury Speedster will be out and about. Bob 

Bob, I really didn’t feel like anything was given away. You need to see the cars in person to understand the actual condition. Pictures tend to lie.

 

 

[alsancle]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:16 PM, trimacar said:

Not a discussion of the cars, nor the auction, so please keep those comments in check.

 

I plan to go as a good friend has offered room, and, if not total board, at least one steak dinner!

 

 I would not want to walk by you and not realize you're on these forums, we've interacted, and there you are.  I will have some sort of Pierce nametag on, and here's my picture.  

 

Let me know here if you plan to go, and please, if you see me, say hi!  I'm not good with names anymore so give me some slack! Maybe I'll take a notebook....

 

I'm the one on the right, the cabbage.  My brother is on the left, he's the carrot...

Had the pleasure of meeting Dave in person tonight for the first time. Also got to meet the wonderful gentleman and his lovely wife who were providing Dave with his steak dinner. Hint: not Ed.  Awesome fun time!  

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

wonderful gentleman and his lovely wife who were providing Dave with his steak dinner. Hint: not Ed.

🙂

Edited April 8, 2023 by Grimy
removed snarky comment (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Will most of the cars stay here or where there some buyers form overseas? 

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Chrysler Imperial sold for 1.6 million, a new record for a Chrysler built car

[Hemi Joel]

16 minutes ago, Dave Mellor NJ said:

Chrysler Imperial sold for 1.6 million, a new record for a Chrysler built car

Not if you count Plymouth and Dodge as Chrysler built. Plymouths have sold for $5 million plus.

 

But that Chrysler that sold today is absolutely gorgeous!

Edited April 8, 2023 by Hemi Joel (see edit history)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

That's true but that's what's going around the internet

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Dave Mellor NJ said:

That's true but that's what's going around the internet

There are Pre War and late model worlds. 

[TAKerry]

Dont want to get nosey since selling prices are listed but were any of you guys able to get what you were after?

[Antichrysler]

@TAKerry, I bid on several, and came away with the 1929 Stutz cabriolet (Lot 62). I was an online bidder, so we’ll see what I came away with. A friend of mine saw the car in person and said it had great bones and amazing documentation (owner had it shipped out of Paris in May, 1940 just before the Germans invaded). Anyway, it was fun to watch, even online. 

[trimacar]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

Had the pleasure of meeting Dave in person tonight for the first time. Also got to meet the wonderful gentleman and his lovely wife who were providing Dave with his steak dinner. Hint: not Ed.  Awesome fun time!  

It was great visiting with you and Ed! I, and we,  had a  great host and hostess for supper, steaks all around.  Auction was a hoot, with prices all over the place.

 

What one has to remember when looking at prices is that all of these were non running vehicles, so it’s a crap shoot on mechanical condition.

 

Engine rebuilds get very expensive.  One Lincoln sold “cheap” after it was announced it had a cracked block, for example.

[Antichrysler]

Update to my 1929 Stutz purchase at the Mark Smith auction.   Gooding emailed me the provenance papers for the car.  From 1931 until 1966, it was owned by Norman C. Chambers, who was identified as a Caterpillar sales manager, with no other information about him. I found his address from an attached mechanical drawing of the fuel float sender he ordered for the Stutz in the 40s.  His address was 40 E. 54th St.  A simple Google search of that address and name revealed that Norman C. Chambers was a Titanic survivor. He was 27 at the time.  He was awake when the Titanic hit the iceberg, and as a mechanical engineer, he later provided testimony to the Senate that he observed that the ship’s crew did not know how to work the watertight bulkheads. Other information in the Wiki account reveals that Chambers sailed from Germany in 1938 on the President Harding, which is the same account Chambers makes in the papers that come with the Stutz. Another interesting piece is his note from May 7, 1940, that he and the car “left Paris.” Just in time, I guess. Anyway, although Chambers’s name shows up in the Gooding provenance, his rather interesting link to history did not. My guess is that if this car had been identified by Gooding as the long-time property of a Titanic survivor, it might have drawn more interest—although it’s hard to say.  In any case, this old Stutz holds quite a bit of history. 

 

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-survivor/norman-campbell-chambers.html

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Antichrysler
Adding photos and fix error. (see edit history)

[trimacar]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:59 PM, alsancle said:

Ok, so I may get beat up about this.

 

Stood next to each of those cars.  In my opinion, less impressive in person.  Yes, photos make them look great, but there were numerous other cars in auction I’d rather take home.

 

And yes, out of my league anyway. And no, I didn’t take anything home, but there were some fair buys there, balanced by the crazy stuff, such as the Brewster at over half a million….

[1937hd45]

That is a great looking Stutz, welcome to the AACA Forun Antichrysler. Thank you for sharing the cars history, it must have been a special car to the owner that got it home it time to save it from the Germans. Good luck on your search for the Winfield Carburetor. 

 

Bob 

Edited April 8, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Antichrysler]

@1937hd45 Bob, thanks!  That’s one heck of a nice looking Winfield. I’m sure somebody “borrowed” the one from the Stutz some years ago. I’m attaching here a letter in the Stutz provenance file from A.K. Miller — notorious eccentric — who comments on the excessive use of Winfields. 

[Hemi Joel]

That Stutz is amazing, so it's it's history. You were wise to buy it. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Hemi Joel
Correcting autocorrect (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

My wife and I went to the A.K. Miller auction all we got was a great auction catalog and some great memories and photos. The now green Roadster that Jay Leno has looks great now so do the Supercharged Coupe and the tan Roadster. Thanks for sharing more paperwork, every piece makes the car more special. Bob 

[trimacar]

3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

That is a great looking Stutz, welcome to the AACA Forun Antichrysler. Thank you for sharing the cars history, it must have been a special car to the owner that got it home it time to save it from the Germans. Good luck on your search for the Winfield Carburetor. 

 

Bob 

Here's my take on the auction.  There were some great cars there, really nice heavy iron.  With only a few exceptions, cars were original and, while it's hard to say "never touched", they were excellent original cars.

 

These were solid, not rusted through, complete cars.  Yes, it would take a bankroll to restore, but I looked at each one as OK, get it running as is, what a car to enjoy.  The KB Lincoln phaeton was a contender in this category, stand by it, very impressive.  Plan B, needs an engine rebuild.  Now we're into some interesting areas.  I know what quality engine work costs, and other than the "stars" of the show (c'mon, a million and half for a car PLUS buyer's premium, you're really concerned about spending more money??), I think some of the prices reflected that very thing.  I have a decent early car, not run in years, and it's in the few thousands to get it roadworthy, engine, tires, and so forth, and that's on a GOOD day.  A Stutz which has been upgraded (and don't get me wrong, that's a NICE car and solid as the day is long), and a few thousand pays for taking it apart.  

 

Plan C?  I was sitting behind a fellow who bought a car, I leaned forward and said nice buy, he looked at me and said "I'll sell it to you right now for X", about 5K above all in price! (remember, 12% buyers premium, man THAT will sneak up on you as you bid and forget about it!)

 

So, take the prices with a tablespoon of salt, one had to be there to understand conditons.  Some cars were presentable as is if running (in some cases the 60 thousand dollar question), some were, well, may need to restore.

 

I can't tell you how much fun it was to be there, though.

[billorn]

3 minutes ago, trimacar said:

Plan C?  I was sitting behind a fellow who bought a car, I leaned forward and said nice buy, he looked at me and said "I'll sell it to you right now for X", about 5K above all in price! (remember, 12% buyers premium, man THAT will sneak up on you as you bid and forget about it!)

Was it the guy who reluctantly bid $2000 on the Pierce trailer and ended up stuck with it?

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, billorn said:

Was it the guy who reluctantly bid $2000 on the Pierce trailer and ended up stuck with it?

The auctioneer was very clear that they better take that trailer with them. Paying the money and leaving. It was not an option.

[alsancle]

I 100% hundred percent agree with Dave’s (trimacar) comments three posts above. 
 

Some of these cars you could call dead original, and many were just what I would call unrestored. But there were lots of cool things that you really needed to touch in person to understand the good and the bad. 
 

I see a forum Member bought the DV 32 Stutz. Definitely a very cool thing. And if he’s able to get it running without having to do that engine then I will consider that well bought.

 

A very few things I think, fall into the cheap category. If I have time I will try to list the ones I thought were a bargain. But your judgment is clouded by all the other high numbers.

Edited April 8, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Yes on the Pierce trailer, but actually a bargain as Ed pointed out to me (as bidding was closing) appeared to have original Pierce wood stove, worth easily 5K plus.  I missed that, now sorry I did.  One and done bid.

 

[trimacar]

I think both Pierce cars, even with premium, were very fair buys.  Teens were great for Pierce, and the touring, supposedly built December 1915 (think HCCA), whew, in another universe I’d have bought it ( as in 20 years younger)…

[edinmass]

29 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I think both Pierce cars, even with premium, were very fair buys.  Teens were great for Pierce, and the touring, supposedly built December 1915 (think HCCA), whew, in another universe I’d have bought it ( as in 20 years younger)…

I think they were ALL the money, poor storage, and lots of time and money to get them back to running. I bid on both, but didn’t want to be in them for the numbers they went for……..probably half was ok, if you wanted them. Ever buy a head gasket for one? You would pass out, if you found one.

 

 

 

[Antichrysler]

@alsancle I was the one who bought the 29 Stutz cab.  I wasn’t there in person and didn’t see the car but I’m hoping the photos were not too deceptive.  My impression is that the steal of the day was the 19 Stutz (lot 12) that sold for 46K.  Again, I didn’t see the car in person, but I see no reason for it selling at half of low estimate. One of my friends was bidding on that and is still kicking himself for not chasing it a bit more. 

[1937hd45]

14 minutes ago, Antichrysler said:

@alsancle I was the one who bought the 29 Stutz cab.  I wasn’t there in person and didn’t see the car but I’m hoping the photos were not too deceptive.  My impression is that the steal of the day was the 19 Stutz (lot 12) that sold for 46K.  Again, I didn’t see the car in person, but I see no reason for it selling at half of low estimate. One of my friends was bidding on that and is still kicking himself for not chasing it a bit more. 

Does the paperwork on your Stutz state who worked on it while in the NYC area? 

[alsancle]

53 minutes ago, Antichrysler said:

@alsancle I was the one who bought the 29 Stutz cab.  I wasn’t there in person and didn’t see the car but I’m hoping the photos were not too deceptive.  My impression is that the steal of the day was the 19 Stutz (lot 12) that sold for 46K.  Again, I didn’t see the car in person, but I see no reason for it selling at half of low estimate. One of my friends was bidding on that and is still kicking himself for not chasing it a bit more. 

 

[Antichrysler]

@1937hd45 I don’t have all of the paperwork yet — just select pages that were Dropboxed. It looks to me like he did most of the repairs himself.  He had it from 1931-66.  He was living in Europe during most of the 30s, probably with no dealer support, and it looks like he spent a fair amount of his days puttering around with the car (which I guess you do as a 1930s heir). I mean — who else has time to sit around 1938 Berlin having your window frame and hubcaps rechromed while Hitler is busy getting ready to invade Poland? I also like that the guy helping him work on the Stutz was named Harry.

 

Here are a couple of pages of his notes: 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Antichrysler
Added (see edit history)

[charlespetty]

On 4/6/2023 at 6:39 PM, 1937hd45 said:

Nice overall look, who is the coachbuilder? 

Schutte coachbuilder.