Body work HELP! - 2nd gen Camaro

[Eli81]

Hey guys,

I have a situation with my 2nd gen Camaro: I found a guy (not naming any names and not throwing anyone under the bus) about 3 months ago through a friend who was willing to replace a rotted rocker panel and a few blemishes in the paint. We agreed on a price and time frame. It was initially set at 2 weeks and $2500. 

Upon inspection of the car he found a few spots on the other rocker panel that needed repair, a small rust spot on on one of the fenders, and a few places on the subframe that needed reinforcing with steel. I asked him how much longer if would take to accomplish these additional tasks, and his reply was another week and $1000 more. 

I agreed. 

As of today my car has been held up at his shop for 8 weeks. That's over 4 weeks past the rough deadline that I was given. As of 4 weeks ago I have been given a myriad of reasons why it's taking so long, almost all of which are personal (sickness, birthdays, garage flooding, personal car trouble, vacations, etc). On 5-6 different occasions I've been told the car will be done that week, and I'm given another excuse. The deadline keeps pushing back. This is a classic case of mismanaged expectations, resources, and time. If I had known it was going to take this long, I would have NEVER agreed to this. I would have found someone else, and paid twice as much money to get this done. 

I have been VERY patient and understanding, but I am at my whits end. Now my patience is being mocked, as I'm being told I need to have more of it. I've worked in an ER for the past 5 years, including all the way through the pandemic. No one can tell me I'm not patient. 

My question is: What can I do? What recourse do I have?

I honestly just want the car back. I can find someone else to finish. This has happened to me more times than I want to admit on other cars. I've had cars dumped in ditches, and even smashed with sledgehammers. All because I simply want a job done in the time frame THEY set. I'm an extremely easy guy to work with, but this is absurd. 

Thoughts on how I should proceed? I'm getting very concerned and stressed over this situation. Thanks in advance. 

[Akstraw]

A tough position.  Many of us have been there.  On one hand, you can sue, but the lack of documentation and the laborious process make that option unattractive.  In the end, only the lawyers will be happy, as they will be the only ones to make money.  The other extreme:  Go and pick up your car.  Tomorrow.  Tell the shop to write you up for what they have in it, and bring it home.  I did this once, and it got the shop supervisor’s attention.  He begged me to let him finish the job.  Probably luck on my part, but maybe he didn’t want the bad word-of-mouth advertising.  Ultimately, if they wanted to do the work, they’d have done it.  So what does that tell you?  Then again, if you bring it home, then you just have to find another shop, and likely play the same game all over again.  Good luck whichever way you go.  I feel your pain.  I have found that the most reliable recourse is to learn to do the work yourself.

[1937hd45]

How do you get the black background and white type, nice feature. 

[gossp]

Pre- Covid all car projects were expected to be twice as much time and money than expected. 
 

post Covid I think 3 or 4 times the cost and time estimate is to be expected. 

[TAKerry]

Fellow second gen f body owner. First, a shop taking 8 weeks to do repairs to both quarters does not seem out of line. The work itself should not take that long but anytime something goes into a shop the wait starts. I will assume you only have word of mouth. I would say by all means keep the attorneys out of the equation. That will only open a giant can of worms (and my wife works for one!).  My advice would be to hook up your trailer, or a friends, rented etc. and go there first thing in the morning to gather your car and any loose parts he may have. I would take a little cash and be prepared to pay the man for any work he has done to date, assuming it was done correctly. I would not get into what you think is good and what he thinks is good. Sometimes it may be worth a couple of bucks just to not to have to see the guy again. I would stick to my guns and not leave without the car. Dont fall for the im sorry it took so long, we will get it finished this week etc. You are lucky if you have another shop ready to do the job. I understand your frustration and now you know what is meant by paint jail! Dont feel too bad, I am on 28 months now waiting on the shop to finish my motor! 16 months waiting on a simple dash piece to be refinished! Talk about patience, I should be a doctor,lol.

[yachtflame]

I took one of my cars to a shop in Unity, NH. My profession had me out of the country for most of the year, so I gave my car to this “known” restorer with a list of things needing to be accomplished in the time I was gone. Gave a deposit covering 40 hrs of work and it was agreed that when the 40 hrs were completed, photos and receipts would be shown. Then the next deposit would be sent. This seemed to work for several months but started slowing down. When I got back, I found less done then told. The fellow was working of a ‘68 Vette complaining that the owner owed him a large amount of money. When I offered to help push the Vette out of the shop so we could push my car in, he refused. Said that he already had my money so my car could wait!

 I went home, got my trailer and went back to the shop. The restorer called the police claiming I owed him money and couldn’t have the car till it was paid. Luckily I’d brought all the copies of checks, his receipts and labor accountings showing I was still $2000 ahead of the work done. The Trooper couldn’t help with getting the money back but required the fellow to load my car or “go to the station”.

  Another hard lesson to learn but I now visit weekly all work being done and hand over checks only once I’ve seen the work.

[28 Chrysler]

Well I am still waiting for a radiator shell that was being replated  at a chrome shop in the pacific NW (2009).  After a year phone calls and emails would go unanswered. 

[TAKerry]

Just now, 28 Chrysler said:

Well I am still waiting for a radiator shell that was being replated  at a chrome shop in the pacific NW (2009).  After a year phone calls and emails would go unanswered. 

Yikes, that sounds scary!  At least in my case my motor is only about 3 miles away and I am in touch on a weekly basis. The dash part on the other hand is a few states away to someone I only know through the 'net. It can be replaced somewhat easily though. I would imagine not so for your radiator shell!

[Gary_Ash]

11 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

How do you get the black background and white type, nice feature. 

No, just makes it difficult to read.

[28 Chrysler]

2 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

 The dash part on the other hand is a few states away to someone I only know through the 'net. It can be replaced somewhat easily though. I would imagine not so for your radiator shell!

I did find one that was an #8 out of 10 and cheaper the a lawyer.

[dodge28]

That is a terrible state to be in. I  had a similar situation with the seat upholstery of my 28 DB. I  supplied all the material, including the Mohair. The trimmer wanted to supply all the material so he could make some money,  he kept the seat springs and the material for a year. Without notice I dropped in and picked up my stuff.. I bought a book on how to sew upholstery and a new Kobe walking foot sewing machine. I am doing fine. I make mistakes but I rip it and correct it. 

[alsancle]

I guess my expectations for how long it takes to get stuff done seems to be a lot more pessimistic than everybody else.

 

If I were the original poster, I would remain patient. If he doesn’t have his car back in six months, and then maybe start to get upset. The prices quoted were very reasonable for the work. 
 

I think we all need to wake up to the fact that this is not 1980 anymore.

 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

I feel lucky on this as the only time I ever hired a restoration shop it was a fairly well know local shop that did a lot of high end work. This was in 2003 or so. The owner himself personally did the needed frame repair telling me it was silly to remove the body as others has required because on a driver the rule was safety and stability, not absolute perfection. It was not real cheap at $900 then but he also on his own fixed a couple of other issues that I had been struggling with. I was happy and the repair is still functional after all this time and miles.

[jpage]

Unfortunately, this is the trouble of hiring out without a written contract. The car owner and the shop owner have no "real" proof of what is expected or promised on any particular job and no real legal way to fight issues when they come up! Most shops will run and hide at any mention of a contract or specific time length of work and that's why I hesitate to hire out any auto work. I'm now looking for a paint shop and an upholstery shop, but when they hear my timelines and price points, all of a sudden they are too busy! I think many shops grab up work, use the down payments to feed cash flow, then let jobs set because they soon become too much to keep up with, this seems especially true of shops who do insurance work as their primary cash cow! I've had friends that waited years for jobs that would have only taken a few weeks if the shop guys would only take the time to work on them! Personally, I think all service type businesses should, by law, have to work with contracts; this would save a lot of folks a lot of grief! As a contractor, all my jobs, no matter how large or small, had written legal contracts; saved my but a couple of times!

[hursst]

If it makes you feel better, this is every shop in the country, all the time, based on my experience.  If someone says it will take 2 weeks, multiply it by 8.  I think the problem is that there are no workers, but these shops still need work.  They will lie to you to get your business, then they will have the .5 employees they have work on it, but it will take forever, because there are no other employees.  If you call them and ask what the problem is, they will lie to you even more.  I can name a few "reputable" businesses that are doing this to me right now.

[Frank DuVal]

Time management vs money management. That and family issues is why I closed the shop in the late 90s after 13 years running it. I was guilty of not seeing how long it took to get work done, and then not finding employees who wanted to work on rust instead of nice clean collision cars! If you tell an employee on commission he has 40 hours to replace that rocker and it takes 80 to do it right, well, you don't get it right!     Pay employees by the hour is better, but then you goof the estimate and then the shop looses, along with the customer. 

 

So getting a firm estimate of time or money is hard on rust work!😫 Crash manuals can tell how long to replace a 3/4 right front clip, but rust? No manual has that info.

 

Then there is scheduling. Again shop owners who think a job that takes 40 hours will be done in a week cause backlogs. It always takes longer, now the next car is behind schedule. BTDT!

 

All a customer can do is go by previous customer referrals/reviews. If the current shop has happy customers except for time management, that is a good sign. If they are unhappy, take heed.

[8E45E]

20 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

No, just makes it difficult to read.

So you would take a '62 Lark Deluxe with its black-on-white gauges over a '62 Regal/Cruiser/Daytona with its white-on-black gauges??🙂

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

18 hours ago, alsancle said:

I guess my expectations for how long it takes to get stuff done seems to be a lot more pessimistic than everybody else.

 

If I were the original poster, I would remain patient. If he doesn’t have his car back in six months, and then maybe start to get upset. The prices quoted were very reasonable for the work. 
 

I think we all need to wake up to the fact that this is not 1980 anymore.

 

 

This is the bottom line. From my experience the original quote of 8 weeks seemed like a dream. But I understand the OP's position if he is fed up then in all likelihood nothing will make him happy at this point, get the car and move on. Like jpage, all of my work is spelled out and monetized from the start. However IF I were restoring a car I would be hard pressed to put something in writing from my experience. One quarter panel may take 4 hrs to replace then the next may run into something and take 8 hrs. Too many variables even from side to side of the car. There was a guy on another forum, he walked the entire car with the body shop and marked every spot where work was to be done. I thought that seemed like a good idea. I think he even had trouble in the long run.

[SC38dls]

I recently did my first true body repair on my 38. Some of you may remember that process I documented in a thread. It took at least twice as long doing each step of the process partially because I had never done it but also each dent was just harder to do correctly. There are some that still need to be redone to be decent. I did have experience replacing rusted sheet metal on my 49 pickup and feel that is so much easier than repairing sheet metal. Time in a body shop must be a major concern as you can’t ever get it back. The top pic was my 49 bed the middle shows the 49 after rust repairs on bed and fenders. The last was the 38 repairs needed. The 38 took a lot longer than expected even with all of your warnings and help 
 

[JACK M]

I doubt I will ever need a high quality paint job ever again.

But here is a story.

I traded a boat for a paint job at a reputable local shop (yes, bad idea, especially in advance) I buy the materials.

Well of course the sandpaper disappeared, then the clear coat went missing, then the owners divorce.

The wife did all the work anyway, I got the rolling body back a couple of years later and found hair in the paint and no clear coat.

She still had the fenders, light housings etc.

Then she took a job at another body shop.

I stopped by the new job site on her second day just to check if she had my parts there.

She did and the new boss immediately took my side and I had everything done and back in a week.

These parts looked so much better than the body I was lucky to find a guy that would redo it in a timely manner.

This was in the mid-eighties and I still drive it on occasion. However, time has taken some toll.

[Ed Luddy]

I want to thank everyone for posting their stories on the subject. I currently have zero car's in paint jail for the 1st time in a long time. But I've been tempted by a few project cars for sale lately I must confess. So this thread has me convinced to stay away from them and maybe enjoy my summer driving instead of working and cursing another pile o' rust!

[TAKerry]

Ed, I have one car in 'mechanics jail', car is done waiting on the motor, have another ready to go. I do have my 77 that I can enjoy driving though. Having one on the road makes the cars in the shop more of a fun project than a chore.

[Buffalowed Bill]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:42 AM, 28 Chrysler said:

Well I am still waiting for a radiator shell that was being replated  at a chrome shop in the pacific NW (2009).  After a year phone calls and emails would go unanswered. 

Shoot me an email with some specific information regarding the shop and it's location. If it's in my purview and time permits I might be able to check on your radiator shell.

31redrooster@comcast.net

[Ed Luddy]

11 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Ed, I have one car in 'mechanics jail', car is done waiting on the motor, have another ready to go. I do have my 77 that I can enjoy driving though. Having one on the road makes the cars in the shop more of a fun project than a chore.

Ah yes. Different style of jail, same sentence! I've been avoiding chasing a few interesting cars but sometimes in the words of Marvin the Martian

"Resistance is Futile!"  

[Ed Luddy]

I do have one in mind if I can clear off a few more of my current rides. 1962 Bonneville 2 dr hardtop. Was a nice solid southern car in long term storage, but has been left outside for 2-3 yrs now with the engine out and MIA.