Locomobile Radiators, questions, repairs maintenance

[alsfarms]

I see the need to start a separate chat to discuss all things Locomobile Radiator related. My first question or two are the following. Are the nickel era Locomobile radiators, that have been referred to as "German Silver", truly German Silver or is that a misnomer and the nickel era Locomobile radiators are simply Nickel plated brass? I just acquired, what I think is a German Silver Locomobile 48 radiator and am not well versed on this vintage radiator and desire to learn.  How is the best way to determine the difference between German Silver or Nickel plated brass?  This question is also fair as I also have a couple of early American-LaFrance projects with what has been represented to me as German Silver radiators. Both the American-LaFrance and Locomobile utilize the square cellular core design. I will be post a picture of the new purchased Locomobile 48 radiator for your evaluation. Additional questions will follow.

Al

Edited March 20, 2023 by alsfarms
Spelling (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

I have brought a direct response to this chat that was shared by Dan in the Locomobile 38 and 48 chat as it is very relevant to this discussion of Locomobile radiators, quote:

" We have a copper sink, which while, looking great, is a pain in the rear to keep polished. Remind me to avoid such in our next house....One way to polish copper, and German silver (if this is german silver), is to use warm white vinegar and salt. I do this on occasion when I don't want to be scrubbing. In your case avoiding rubbing so as to not cause scratching or a change to the surface patina would be ideal. For German silver the only twist is to line the vessel the item is submerged or bathed in with aluminum foil. Being a large radiator shell this may not be too practical but food for thought about doing this chemically without mechanically altering the surface - at least to get started. Maybe you could make a wood-framed box water-tight and with some aluminum foil lining it (doesn't have to be contiguous over the whole box's surface). I would say with our copper sink this gets it 90%. If I really want a shine and some reflection I follow it up with an ammonia solution (or just start that way). 

 

   If the radiator shell is nickel I'm not sure the above applies..."

Edited March 20, 2023 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

I just thought of another Locomobile radiator question that is perplexing me. What is the difference in appearance between the patina found on a German Silver radiator and the patina found on a Nickel plated brass radiator.

Al

Edited March 20, 2023 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

Al, I'm trying to see if there's any clear way to differentiate with a chemical test outside of playing with potassium cyanide and hypochloric acid to precipitate nickel from a sample (and using a lot of mathematics). I found two online sources who state not to use ammonia on nickel plate as it can separate the plating. I'm not sure that is true but word to the wise. Otherwise it is hard to go by a color test as oxidation will mask this. Overall if you can't find wear-through or plating which is flaking then it may be an alloy such as German silver. Isn't this the same as Silver Ghost radiators of the time?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Dear Al, before doing any attempts on improving the visual appearance of it's external surface, I suggest to check the radiator's function:

1. Is it leaking? You should apply very little pressure only (1 to 2 PSI, no more!) when submerged in a water basin.

2. Are the water passages free? I have not tested that on a radiator which is not installed in a car. I can only say: The Locomobile has such a strong water pump, it will push water out of the overflow pipe if the flow is restricted. End of last year I gave the radiator to an experienced repair shop and got it back just last Friday. The whole beautifully polished surface is now dull and ugly from emerging into the water basin so many times!

[Ittenbacher Frank]

See the serial number on the radiator:

[Ittenbacher Frank]

The manufacturer was G&O, look at these advertisements:

Pls. note: "custom built since 1915" means: It was a quite young factory when most of our model 48's were built. Who made the radiators for Locomobile before 1915?

One more hint: The square fins were not used on the Locomobile preasure cars. Our radiators are called "honey-comb" or "cellular type". I add descriptions from the manuals of model M7 (1916), series seven (1920) and 19000-series (1924).

Edited March 20, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Ittenbacher Frank]

When I bought my 1917 model touring car, I was happy to find the cooling system filled with antifreeze and not leaking. But when I started with driving, I learned very soon that the cooling system has some problems: various smaller leaks from the core showed up, and I lost a much bigger quantity through the overflow pipe. After the last trip in November 2022, I measured: I could only drain 17.5 liters from a total volume of 29 liter, after driving not much more than an hour only. The neighbours informed me that I was loosing water when driving down the road. This overflow started from medium engine speeds already, with a continuous flow (stream), visible as a wet line on the road.

As one reason I found a dent in the copper pipe between radiator and water pump, which I could repair.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Another reason is dirt inside the core. The repair shop cleaned it very carefully with some chemicals and by flushing backwards. He said it was "somehow dirty, but not too bad, he had seen much worse cases before". The water passages in this type of radiator are smaller than on other more modern radiators, they get blocked more easily.

As a safety measure for the future, I made an in-line filter mesh:

Edited March 20, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank
corrected typing error (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Frank, was your radiator shop able to clean out the 1917 Locomobile radiator core and allow for a much better thru flow characteristic of the coolant? What is your take on what your radiator is made from, nickel plated brass or German Silver alloy? Which ever it is, these radiators are simply elegant when polished to a fine luster. That assessment is true regardless of some radiators being polished brass or even painted brass. These various options, for the radiator, undoubtedly were reflected on the order for purchase when new. I wonder if G&O, the radiator builder, would have order information that would specify what material was used in the manufacture of a new radiator and the end cost to consumer.

Al

[George K]

If you would like to understand the cooling ability of a Loco 48 radiator look no further than the Lytle-Helck Rabbit the First. 18.8 liter Benz aircraft engine. Now in the hands of the much lauded Leno collage as it has no cohesion as a collection.

[alsfarms]

Good Morning George,

You threw out a morsel of information on the Lytle-Helck Rabbit and a picture and certainly raised the interest. How about a bit more background information on that race car and the builders. Yes, it certainly looks like a Locomobile 48 radiator was used. I wonder if this vehicle utilizes an auxiliary water tank for more coolant capacity?

Al

Edited March 20, 2023 by alsfarms
Spelling (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

With a bit of mathematical estimation, the Lytle-Helck Rabbit engine is a bit more than twice as big as the 525 CID engine in a Locomobile 48. If the radiator , as a stand alone, cools that huge aircraft engine, the cooling characteristics of the Locmobile 48 radiator has plenty of cooling capacity to cool a 48 Locomobile.  But of course, it would be very important to keep the system clean so the small passageways of a square cellular radiator do not become fouled and plug up.

Al

[alsfarms]

Another nice aspect of the Lytle-Helck Rabbit is the wire wheels. The don't look like typical Buffalo style.  Are they Rudge? If not Rudge, then they must be those darned Dayton wheels.  What is the thoughts of this group?

Al

[alsfarms]

Does anyone have Locomobile radiator information that predates 1915 as the start of G&O building radiators under that name.  I wonder if the did business under a different name earlier than the 1915 date as the radiator on my 1909 Model L is constructed and certainly appears to be a sister to the Locomobile 48 radiator.

Al

[George K]

6 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Good Morning George,

You threw out a morsel of information on the Kytle-Helck Rabbit and a picture and certainly raised the interest. How about a bit more background information on that race car and the builders. Yes, it certainly looks like a Locomobile 48 radiator was used. I wonder if this vehicle utilizes an auxiliary water tank for more coolant capacity?

Al

It is a Loco radiator. I know what I am talking about unlike others.

[alsfarms]

George, that is a nice verbal rendition of this British made special! Thanks for your posting. I would like to put my eyes on that race car and appreciate it similar to my reverence to Ab Jenkins and the Mormon Meteor here in Utah. Is the Lytle-Helck Special hidden away somewhere, out of site, or is there possibly any current history that can be added to that information you kindly posted?

Al

[prewarnut]

   It looks like G & O sold on the secondary market too. From 1920 (2nd ad down):

 

[mdsbob]

 

[alsfarms]

Thanks to Google, I took a quick and short crash course on German Silver and am now a bit more knowledgeable on that subject. This material has no silver in it and was developed in Germany in the 19th century. It is actually a good material that is used a lot in jewelry and kitchen utensils as well as in high end radiators from the teens to mid twenties. It is made up of a mix of copper, zinc and nickel. German Silver should not be treated polished or cleaned as you would a Silver alloy. One of the best or easiest ideas for renewing the silver like gloss is a 1 to 1 mixture of water and sodium bicarbonate. Soft cloth wetted with this solution and, like brass or copper,........elbow grease. If this needs to be "supercharged" add a bit of white vinegar. German Silver is very good for holding a shine and resisting tarnish, but over time it will require work. There is also a couple of other remedies but I will start with what looks to be the easiest first. If you have other or additional ideas, please share. One last thought on what the above radiator is. I now think it is formed from German Silver. I see no places where conventional Nickel plating may have rubbed to expose the brass underneath. The under structure appears the same even in locations where assembly and solder work is plentiful. I am anxious to get this radiator "tuned up".

Al

[alsfarms]

Here are a few remedies that can be used to clean and polish Brass and most likely German Silver.

Al

The best homemade brass cleaners

If you're in a time bind or want to save some cash and not shell out for a brass-specific cleaner, there are a number of homemade options that can get your brass back to gleaming.

How to clean brass using ketchup

Squirt some ketchup on the brass and let it sit for a while. After a half an hour or so — preferably a full hour — has passed, use a soft, damp cloth or soft toothbrush to rub the brass item or brass jewelry clean. Once you have removed the buildup, rinse and wipe away the ketchup with a clean cloth and dry the brass.

 

How to clean brass using lemon and salt

Cut a lemon in half, remove the flesh, and apply salt on the inside. Rub the brass piece with this lemon, reapplying salt as needed. Clean and dry the brass with a soft cloth.

 

How to clean brass using vinegar

For the toughest stains and buildup, make a paste with vinegar, flour, and salt, ensuring that the salt is completely dissolved. Rub the mixture generously onto the brass item and let it sit for about 10-20 minutes. Rinse and wipe with a damp clean cloth.

How to clean brass using lemon and baking soda

These two cleaning agents, when united, create a cleaner that’s tough enough to remove brass buildup with ease. Make a paste of lemon juice and baking soda and apply to brass with a clean cloth. Polish and buff away the grime, and wipe away any residue with a wet cloth. Dry your brass item with a second clean cloth.

The best storebought brass cleaners & polish

 

If you'd rather go the conventional route, opt for a natural, plant-based cleaner or brass polish to protect your fixture or item from harsh, corrosive ingredients.

How to clean brass using soap and water

The easiest cleaning method we know of is to simply make a mixture of soap and warm water to clean your brass piece or brass jewelry. Soak the brass in this mixture soapy water for a while, then use a soft cloth and a soft-bristled toothbrush to work out the buildup and stains. Rinse and wipe dry with a clean cloth.

[ak]

On 3/19/2023 at 10:31 PM, alsfarms said:

I see the need to start a separate chat to discuss all things Locomobile Radiator related. My first question or two are the following. Are the nickel era Locomobile radiators, that have been referred to as "German Silver", truly German Silver or is that a misnomer and the nickel era Locomobile radiators are simply Nickel plated brass? I just acquired, what I think is a German Silver Locomobile 48 radiator and am not well versed on this vintage radiator and desire to learn.  How is the best way to determine the difference between German Silver or Nickel plated brass?  This question is also fair as I also have a couple of early American-LaFrance projects with what has been represented to me as German Silver radiators. Both the American-LaFrance and Locomobile utilize the square cellular core design. I will be post a picture of the new purchased Locomobile 48 radiator for your evaluation. Additional questions will follow.

Al

Simichrome but that is expensive.  Mother's aluminum polish is just as good as Simichrome and is just about the best you can do for the job.

[ak]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Ittenbacher Frank said:

When I bought my 1917 model touring car, I was happy to find the cooling system filled with antifreeze and not leaking. But when I started with driving, I learned very soon that the cooling system has some problems: various smaller leaks from the core showed up, and I lost a much bigger quantity through the overflow pipe. After the last trip in November 2022, I measured: I could only drain 17.5 liters from a total volume of 29 liter, after driving not much more than an hour only. The neighbours informed me that I was loosing water when driving down the road. This overflow started from medium engine speeds already, with a continuous flow (stream), visible as a wet line on the road.

As one reason I found a dent in the copper pipe between radiator and water pump, which I could repair.

An "old timer" gave me some good advice.  When the water gets hot it expands, and with the water pump pushing it rises over the over flow pipe and out the bottom.  Put a long flat head screw (long enough that if raised it will be prevented from pulling out because it will hit the radiator cap) into the overflow pipe, the head of course must be larger than the ID of the tube.  It will act as a poppet valve and allow the water to expand and pass over the screw head but if it comes under pressure from steam, it will lift the screw, push past the head and into the tube and out the bottom.  Works like a charm.  

[alsfarms]

Now that is certainly a "home brew" engineering modification to stop the nosebleed as described by Frank.  As I see this scenario, if the flow characteristics are impaired by contaminants in the radiator, this flat head screw idea my help the radiator system to no nosebleed away the coolant and end up with an overheating engine.  Thanks for this idea.

Al

[alsfarms]

I have never heard of "Mother's Aluminum Polish". Is this stuff a liquid or a paste?

Al

[alsfarms]

Here is a couple of pictures of the Original Count Lebrowski Chitty Citty Bang Bang.  Good to compare with the Rabbit as shown above on a posting by mdsbob.  I think these early "hot Rod" race cars were in the same league. What a chunk!

Al

Edited March 22, 2023 by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

8 hours ago, alsfarms said:

I have never heard of "Mother's Aluminum Polish". Is this stuff a liquid or a paste?

Al

Al, 

   I use Mother's all the time on my modern equipment and like it a lot. It is in a small tub and is a consistency of a cream. I use it on tailpipes, a previous set of aluminum rims, bike components... It doesn't feel like it is abrasive and I've never seen it scratch, but it will take road tar off of things so it might have microscopic abrasive qualities. Nonetheless I've used it on interior dash or steering wheel plastic trim that looks like aluminum and have not scratched it. I don't like recommending things I have no experience with but online I have seen good reviews of Sidol or Flitz polishes, along with simichrome (but have not used any of those three).  I just don't know if Mother's is really right for German silver.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

8 hours ago, ak said:

An "old timer" gave me some good advice.  When the water gets hot it expands, and with the water pump pushing it rises over the over flow pipe and out the bottom.  Put a long flat head screw (long enough that if raised it will be prevented from pulling out because it will hit the radiator cap) into the overflow pipe, the head of course must be larger than the ID of the tube.  It will act as a poppet valve and allow the water to expand and pass over the screw head but if it comes under pressure from steam, it will lift the screw, push past the head and into the tube and out the bottom.  Works like a charm.  

Dear John, thanks for the advice. I like that idea and will see whether I can try it or not. But I need to mention one important fact which I have forgotten before: The Locomobile has no problems with the cooling performance! I have not met any overheating conditions, it is all about small leakages (let's say 1-2 litre per 24h) and water loss (10 liter in less than one hour, and that happened right from the start when the water is still cold!).

I like to give you three examples of how the Loco cooling system performs:

1. A 200-miles round trip with my wife and the Sedan on a hot summer day: We started a bit late, and to make up for the lost time, I went onto the hilly highway towards Frankfurt for the first part of the trip. After approximately 20 miles, when the car had reached it's operating temperature already, we met a traffic jam on an incline: stop and go in first gear for maybe 10 minutes, the worst case for an old car. Simply no problem at all! When we got back home, there was no need to refill water.

2. A tour with the sedan in winter weather, quite cold. I wanted to close half of the radiator. I attached a wire horizontally across the radiator at half height, folded a page of a newspaper and hung it over the wire. That was not a good idea because only the inner page (next to the radiator) was sucked tightly by the fan, but the outer page was loose. Soon the wind pushed the outer page upwards, effectively closing the radiator completely! After app. 5 miles I noticed steam from the overflow pipe. At a red traffic light I got out and tore the paper away, then quickly jumped back into the car and started off when the light turned green. No more than 1/2 mile later I had the chance to stop at the curb and measured the radiator with an infrared gauge: The temperature had already fallen from 212°F to 95°F!

3. The last trip in last year with the tourer when the crankshaft damper broke, leaving the fan inoperative. It was one of the last nice sunny days, not cold yet. At that time one third of the water content was lost already. Then I drove 10 miles to my home, which includes two quite steep hills, all in high gear. Just when I nearly finished maneuvering into the workshop and nicely onto the middle of the inspection pit, the temperature reached the boiling point. With this lack of water and without the fan, I am sure most of the "normal" cars would have overheated much earlier and much more.

[alsfarms]

With more thinking on Locomobile radiator building, I share my following thoughts. I have been chewing on this subject and have arrived at the idea that if someone wanted a brass radiator, that is probably what G & O likely used in the build. I also assume that if someone wanted a painted radiator, a brass radiator likely was the base. If someone wanted a nice shiny radiator with a nickel luster, you would order German Silver. I also assume that Locomobile probably pre ordered all these radiators in lots and simply installed what the customer wanted and would afford. These radiators are very robust. You need your hernia belt on before you go to the manpower lift mode! Does anyone else have thoughts on these Locomobile radiators?

Al

Edited March 22, 2023 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[ak]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:35 AM, alsfarms said:

I have never heard of "Mother's Aluminum Polish". Is this stuff a liquid or a paste?

Al

It is a paste in a plastic container, sold at most if not all auto parts stores. 

I have purchased the "flitz" product at Hershey, and it worked famously!

John

[ak]

16 hours ago, Ittenbacher Frank said:

Dear John, thanks for the advice. I like that idea and will see whether I can try it or not. But I need to mention one important fact which I have forgotten before: The Locomobile has no problems with the cooling performance! I have not met any overheating conditions, it is all about small leakages (let's say 1-2 litre per 24h) and water loss (10 liter in less than one hour, and that happened right from the start when the water is still cold!).

I like to give you three examples of how the Loco cooling system performs:

1. A 200-miles round trip with my wife and the Sedan on a hot summer day: We started a bit late, and to make up for the lost time, I went onto the hilly highway towards Frankfurt for the first part of the trip. After approximately 20 miles, when the car had reached it's operating temperature already, we met a traffic jam on an incline: stop and go in first gear for maybe 10 minutes, the worst case for an old car. Simply no problem at all! When we got back home, there was no need to refill water.

2. A tour with the sedan in winter weather, quite cold. I wanted to close half of the radiator. I attached a wire horizontally across the radiator at half height, folded a page of a newspaper and hung it over the wire. That was not a good idea because only the inner page (next to the radiator) was sucked tightly by the fan, but the outer page was loose. Soon the wind pushed the outer page upwards, effectively closing the radiator completely! After app. 5 miles I noticed steam from the overflow pipe. At a red traffic light I got out and tore the paper away, then quickly jumped back into the car and started off when the light turned green. No more than 1/2 mile later I had the chance to stop at the curb and measured the radiator with an infrared gauge: The temperature had already fallen from 212°F to 95°F!

3. The last trip in last year with the tourer when the crankshaft damper broke, leaving the fan inoperative. It was one of the last nice sunny days, not cold yet. At that time one third of the water content was lost already. Then I drove 10 miles to my home, which includes two quite steep hills, all in high gear. Just when I nearly finished maneuvering into the workshop and nicely onto the middle of the inspection pit, the temperature reached the boiling point. With this lack of water and without the fan, I am sure most of the "normal" cars would have overheated much earlier and much more.

It seems to me the "screw in the overflow pipe" trick will solve your water loss problems.  The water expands and flows out of the overflow pipe, then when you slow the car down, the volume of water in the engine drops because the margin necessary to keep the radiator filled had poured out the overflow pipe because of expansion and the volume of water pushed into the radiator by the water pump at higher rpm's.  Of course this is the idea of the overflow tanks on modern cars to keep the radiator filled, what is pushed out is drawn back in.  There is no way to save it in a container because the system is "open" and not "closed" as in modern cars, and the overflow systems have a 15lb cap on them.  

[ak]

8 minutes ago, ak said:

It is a paste in a plastic container, sold at most if not all auto parts stores. 

I have purchased the "flitz" product at Hershey, and it worked famously!

John

I just checked and walmart carries it.  Shipped to your door. 

[alsfarms]

I just investigate the Flitz product. I am very inclined to try this product on three German Silver radiators I have. Now for a follow up question. Much has been said about using Brasso on brass lamps with the technical reason being the the ammonia found in Brasso reacts gradually with the surface of the brass causing minute stress cracks.....not a healthy scenario for the thin material used in the manufacture of brass lamps. One of the main ingredients in the Flitz polishing paste is also ammonia.  I feel confident that German Silver, being a solid alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel, should not react to ammonia the same way.  The best buy on the Flitz product was on Amazon for $47. for a 2 lb. can, even better than $60. at Walmart for a 2 lb. can.  I also investigated the Mothers Polishing compound but could not find a list of ingredients for that material. Does anyone know here?

Al

Edited March 23, 2023 by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

Al,

   I too have heard that ammonia-based cleaners can weaken brass. That said (as I've mentioned to Frank) I work on clocks and watches as another hobby and have cleaned well over 100 in my time. Some which I have owned or been associated with long enough to require cleaning 3 or 4 times now and have always used ammoniated cleaner. Now, the horologic hobby is aware of this and indeed the technical and high-end experts warn against it but frankly I have never caused a wheel or tooth or plate fracture to my knowledge. I just completed a museum-quality restoration and never thought twice about this. The issue (from what I think I understand) stems from repetitive exposure to ammonia year after year - not just a cleaning or two. I do try to be quick with it and not leave parts immersed for more than 2-3 minutes - I have other components to my cleaning process.... Now, that doesn't mean I won't have trouble on my next one but I would think you have nothing to worry with the thick gauge metal of the radiator. Nonetheless as they say, "your mileage my vary."

[ak]

On 3/23/2023 at 12:06 PM, alsfarms said:

I just investigate the Flitz product. I am very inclined to try this product on three German Silver radiators I have. Now for a follow up question. Much has been said about using Brasso on brass lamps with the technical reason being the the ammonia found in Brasso reacts gradually with the surface of the brass causing minute stress cracks.....not a healthy scenario for the thin material used in the manufacture of brass lamps. One of the main ingredients in the Flitz polishing paste is also ammonia.  I feel confident that German Silver, being a solid alloy of Copper, Zinc and Nickel, should not react to ammonia the same way.  The best buy on the Flitz product was on Amazon for $47. for a 2 lb. can, even better than $60. at Walmart for a 2 lb. can.  I also investigated the Mothers Polishing compound but could not find a list of ingredients for that material. Does anyone know here?

Al

You better get a gym membership, because you will need a lot of elbow grease to clean brass or nickel with brasso!  You might as well use soap and water and get the same results without big expense. 

My opinion: you will throw brasso and never dull in the trash can once you have tried simichrome, flitz, and mother's aluminum polish.  

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Hello, today I can report a bit about the radiator issues.

1. The weight of one original G&O radiator, made in New Haven, CT, is 36.3kg (app. 80 lbs).

2. I cleaned the German Silver. Tried several products, all of them work: First I cleaned the frame with warm water, soap and a sponge, the net with the same water and a soft brush. Then, the next day when the surfaces were dry, I tried Mothers, it works well. Then Neverdull, also good. Then in some areas I used Autosol paste (it is a bit stronger) and then Neverdull for the finish. The result is good.

3. Installation worked without problems. New rubber supports were necessary (the old ones were hard like a rock). The copper elbow from the radiator flange to the lower water hose is a very tight fit near one bolt of the timing cover, but it works as long as you can tilt the radiator a bit forward and backwards on its rubber mounts. The two nuts for holding that copper elbow at the radiator flange are very hard to access without slipping the spanner. The old ones were very worn, nearly round, therefore I made new ones from brass, a bit longer for better access.

4. The V-belt on the Locomobile has to be a segmented type, which can be opened for installation. The reason is the very close distance between the front chassis cross member with the crank handle shaft crankshaft vibration damper. A modern endless V-belt cannot be installed without having removed the radiator, splash apron and chassis cross member, which is quite a lot of work.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Frank, What a nice pictorial conclusion to your radiator rework and assembly work on your 1917 Locmobile 48 touring car.  One question for you, did you use any mechanical means of buffing the German Silver radiator or just elbow grease?  I was also surprised at the physical weight of the radiator as I could hardly lift the radiator I bought along with the wooden crate if was shipped in. I was nervous to have the radiator shipped but was happy with the care that was put into the shipping crate.  The end result was no damage. What condition were the studs located in bottom of your radiator? On another subject for one of our chats, what color green to you feel you touring car is adorned with?  to my unknowing eye, it looks close to British Racing Green.

Al

 

[JV Puleo]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:21 PM, alsfarms said:

Thanks to Google, I took a quick and short crash course on German Silver and am now a bit more knowledgeable on that subject. This material has no silver in it and was developed in Germany in the 19th century. ..

Al, it's actually much older than that. In the 18th century the British imported it from India. It was known as Paktung and was quite commonly used for the mounts on mid-grade firearms because it was so much less expensive than sterling. Very shortly there were locally made versions, notably Tutinag or Tutinar, after the inventor, whose name was Tutin, a Birmingham buckle manufacturer. The actual alloy, although it included most of the same materials, varied according to who made it but it was certainly common by the first quarter of the 19th century. In the mid 19th century there was a contest to find the best alloy and it was won by a German firm, hence the name "german silver" (I do not believe it should be capitalized because most of it is not German and it's not silver...it's an alloy like brass and bronze). During WWI, when all things German were verboten, the name was changed to "nickel silver".

[alsfarms]

Joe, thanks for the additional information on the German Silver alloy.  I also did more study on the origins of this particular alloy and learned that the Chinese also had a similar nickel based allow that reaches way back in time.  It appears to me that german silver or nickel silver has properties that make it a better alloy and likely more expensive than yellow brass. I don't think it is as prone to stress cracking when utilized in thin cross section applications, and it appears to hold a luster with much less care and keeping that typical yellow brass. Does anyone else have additional information or incites to the alloy german silver?

Al

[alsfarms]

Hello Frank,

I have a question that I would like you to school me on. How did you get the second and third picture from the bottom to work like it is, with the split line?

Al