How do I get a proper appraisal for a factory custom order 1940 Buick 51c Special 4 door Covertible

[tbrandon]

This vehicle has been in my family for over 50 years and was fully restored. Everything is original with the exception of the tires and convertible top.  I am told that it was a custom order from the factory, making it harder to find a proper appraisal to get insurance coverage.  I inherited this vehicle and am new to this world, so any help or knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[tbrandon]

Could be this as well, I found a vehicle that looks remarkably similar online: 1940 Buick 51c super convertible phaeton

[Jolly_John]

tbrandon, I'm confused (not necessarily a new state of being for me!). Are the photos you posted of the car you inherited, or of the car you spotted online?

 

Second, do you have any knowledge of what made the car you inherited a "factory special order"? For me, it would be hard to imagine a "Special" series 1940 BUICK being a unique factory order vehicle, as opposed to a big series BUICK, like a Roadmaster or Limited. Just thinking out loud. John

[alsancle]

This car looks identical to the one Bonhams sold at Pebble a few years ago for 45K all in.

 

I would insure it for 35-40k agreed value and be comfortable with that.   

[edinmass]

Not hard to value. Looks like a nice car. Difficult to sell unless based on price. 

[tbrandon]

Hello John,  The pictures are of the vehicle I inherited. No, I'm not aware of what would have made it a factory special order.  I did hear an uncle mention something about running boards being deleted.

[alsancle]

Here is a link to the Bohnams car:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25221/lot/126/1940-buick-model-51c-super-convertible-phaetonchassis-no-13791814/

[tbrandon]

9 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Here is a link to the Bohnams car:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25221/lot/126/1940-buick-model-51c-super-convertible-phaetonchassis-no-13791814/

that does look very similar!

[neil morse]

57 minutes ago, Jolly_John said:

For me, it would be hard to imagine a "Special" series 1940 BUICK being a unique factory order vehicle

It's actually a Super not a Special, not that it makes much difference as far as the point Jolly_John is making.  "Custom order from the factory" is pretty vague and could just mean that the original buyer had specific choices regarding exterior color and interior trim.  I don't think tbrandon is saying that the car was "a unique factory order vehicle."  In any case, it looks like a nice example.

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by neil morse (see edit history)

[Jolly_John]

7 minutes ago, neil morse said:

 In any case, it looks like a nice example.

 

 

 

YES,  Neil, it shows very well.  it certainly appears to have had a careful, high quality restoration.

 

tbrandon, of course it's sad when there's a family member's death involved, but you are a fortunate guy to have inherited such a "Super" car. I realize it's possible you may not keep it, but I hope you at least drive it a bit, to experience that straight eight BUICK experience. Best of luck to you. John

[tbrandon]

25 minutes ago, Jolly_John said:

YES,  Neil, it shows very well.  it certainly appears to have had a careful, high quality restoration.

 

tbrandon, of course it's sad when there's a family member's death involved, but you are a fortunate guy to have inherited such a "Super" car. I realize it's possible you may not keep it, but I hope you at least drive it a bit, to experience that straight eight BUICK experience. Best of luck to you. John

Definitely plan to hold onto it, and it drives like a dream!  But, I was given a very large estimated value (6 figures) from the family and am trying to get true numbers and not emotional numbers so that I can have it insured correctly, God forbid anything ever happen. 

[Jolly_John]

Oh, man, any six figure number is more than "nuts", in my opinion.

 

I would look at "replacement value" to establish the number you're after. That has been addressed well by some of the other guys who've posted. Most of us would say the market for the later pre-war BUICK 4-door convertibles has softened over the past five to ten years. In my mind, setting a replacement value on your '40 BUICK of $45,000 to $50,000 would be fair to both you and the estate. I.E. with a little work and time, you or your collector car insurance company should be able to replace your car for this amount in case of a future loss. Just my opinion, of course. John

[ILIKECARS53]

Using the Old Car Price Guide.....    number 1  is about   67,000       number 2   about  47,000     and number 3     about  30,000.   Based on this I would agree with Jolly John.   

[alsancle]

Appraisals are done for various reasons.   If the stated purpose is for insurance valuation then anything 40k to 50K is fine.  Retail value is probably something a little less that.   I insure my cars for about 70% of what I think the retail value of the car is.  Probably when I go to sell it I might be high.  But fully insuring them is expensive. 

 

If the purpose of the appraisal was for estate purposes I would argue 35-40k.

 

Btw,  price guides are junk and should be used to start bonfires.

[Frank DuVal]

It's not so much the price guides are flawed, but that people misuse them all the time! #1 is perfect!  Not close to perfect.

 

Guides are based typically on auction results. If no cars in the category were auctioned recently, then data is SWAGed from old data. Again, deduct for private party sales as they will be lower 99% of the time.

[Barney Eaton]

I ordered several cars........ in smaller towns the dealers did not have a lot full of cars.   It was not that unusual to order the car and equipment you wanted.  

Does that alone make them special?   The local funeral home would give business to Cadillac and Chrysler  (Packard had already gone under) 

I remember them getting a Chrysler sedan (family car) painted GM dark green to match their Cadillac hearse.   That would be special. 

[nat]

      Other than mustard yellow it's a beautiful car.  I don't know what the dash and interior look like.

     All things are only worth what someone is willing to pay.  If time allows, start with your wildest dreams and drop the price as storage fees accumulate.

[Jolly_John]

Nat....check your computer monitor color settings! No mustard yellow on this car. tbrandon's convertible is a fairly popular (especially for open cars) 1940 BUICK color: Sequoia Cream. John

[nat]

     I'm sorry for any offense.  It looks yellow to me.  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

26 minutes ago, nat said:

     I'm sorry for any offense.  It looks yellow to me.  

Nat, they look yellow to me in real life. Not lemon yellow, maybe.  Softer,

 

  Ben

[1939_Buick]

Looks like a good car.  How does it drive?

To me looks like a usual 1940 model 51C  - nothing unique about it.  But not that many made, compared to other series/models.

Even the body tag (if original) does not have any options stamped on it.  And that oversized zinc plated washer near the body tag does not look right to me (but others may have a different view).

All 1940 series 50 did not have running boards- a new design feature for 1940 series 50 (but not for series 40 - 60)

 

https://classiccarcatalogue.com/BUICK_1940.html

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/brochures_1940_buick

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25593/lot/474/1940-buick-super-series-50-convertible-coupe-chassis-no-13809773/

Edited March 10, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[EmTee]

10 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Nat, they look yellow to me in real life. Not lemon yellow, maybe.  Softer,

More like butter... 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Just now, EmTee said:

More like butter... 

 

Yeah! 

 

  Ben

[Marty Roth]

Personally, I like the color.

Buick called it Sequoiah Cream.

 This one seems possibly a bit brighter repaint than some originals

[Morgan Wright]

The Super doesn't draw the big bucks because it has the same dinky little 248 engine as the Special, but it weighs 250 pounds more. People want the Century with the big 320 Roadmaster engine, without the weight of the Roady. A Century in 2 door draws the big bucks.

[kgreen]

If you're trying to get value so that you can settle with other members of the estate, you are in a tough situation.  If they want a six figure value and you can't agree, call Haggerty for a start, then get an appraisal from a reputable, qualified appraiser.

[Jolly_John]

Hi, Nat....when I posted, "check your computer monitor color settings!" I was only ribbing you a little. I'm glad you're among those posting on the forum, and chimed in on the color of this nifty BUICK. Take care. John

[Den41Buick]

As Neil said. It is a model 51C which is a Super. Same engine as the Special. The one special order item is it does not have running boards. Now in 1941 running boards disappeared on all Buicks with the new styling. Maybe this was a "late" in production car? But being #161, I don't think so....

[kgreen]

3 hours ago, Den41Buick said:

As Neil said. It is a model 51C which is a Super. Same engine as the Special. The one special order item is it does not have running boards. Now in 1941 running boards disappeared on all Buicks with the new styling. Maybe this was a "late" in production car? But being #161, I don't think so....

All series 50 (Super) and series 70 (Roadmaster bodies were part of the new C-body in 1940 and did not have running boards.

[tbrandon]

I appreciate all the comments.  This is all new to me and I am not experienced with cars, classic or otherwise.  I have, through here and other resources, discovered this to be a super and not a special.  I think there was more emotions and hopes that came along with the vehicle from family.  This is why I wanted to post and get opinions from people with more knowledge and without bias, so thank you to all that have contributed.

[edinmass]

Good luck with your car. Join the Buick club, great bunch of people. 

[Century Eight]

 Looks like you have a very nice car and I hope you enjoy it.  I am partial to the Sequoia Cream color because I have a  61c, (Century Phaeton) the same color.  If you car is closer to the shade shown with the builders tag, I would say that is very close to the real color, notwithstanding the fact that I am looking at a laptop and cant really see the color. 

 

I wish these cars brought more money, but unless it was the Casablanca car, or one of the high end restorations from the gentleman in Ohio, I think most of these price estimates are fairly realistic.  We would need to see more shots of course, such as the engine, chassis, trunk and dash.  

 

You would have a lot of fun and learn a lot if you would join the Buick Club of America.  Good luck with it.

[buick looks fine for 39]

There very few "spec" Buick convertibles sent to dealerships. Nearly all of them were special ordered by the customer at the dealership and the paperwork was then sent to Buick. Sequoia cream was also a special order and if I remember correctly Fisher Body set up a paint line periodically to paint sequoia cream open and closed cars, also La Salle and possibly other makes were included in this paint line. Actually it was pretty complicated; Fisher body created a paint standard and this standard was the control for the entire paint line. The body was painted at one line and the fenders, etc were painted at other lines. Having a paint control was critical to insure all the painted components were exactly the same color. All these painted parts had to come together correctly  when they were needed on the assembly line.

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[JBP]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:13 PM, kgreen said:

All series 50 (Super) and series 70 (Roadmaster bodies were part of the new C-body in 1940 and did not have running boards.

If I'm remembering rightly, I think that the '39 models had an optional "rocker trim" piece that could be ordered in place of the standard running boards. Set the stage for more "flow through" designing. 
 

- although, there are several 1940 models that have the traditional running boards (a Google image search brings them up). Must have still been an option available to order, if wanted by the customer. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by JBP (see edit history)

[Century Eight]

JBP. These so called running boards were called “stream boards”.   When I first got into prewar Buicks in the seventies, older knowledgeable, restorers would snap these up whenever they could.  Haven’t seen any in a long time but you would have to part with a lot of money to acquire a set.

[neil morse]

21 hours ago, JBP said:

- although, there are several 1940 models that have the traditional running boards (a Google image search brings them up). Must have still been an option available to order, if wanted by the customer

There still seems to be some confusion about this.  As Ken Green posted, there were no running boards on the new C-body cars in 1940, which were the 50 series (Super) and 70 series (Roadmaster).  The Special and the Century series had running boards.  Running boards were not an option on the Super and Roadmaster.

[buick looks fine for 39]

1940 40-60 Buicks also had streamboards as an option. They looked identical to 1939 but they're not interchangeable. If I remember correctly they are slightly different where they meet the front fenders and the streamboard are 2-3 inches shorter. I once chased a rumor of nos streamboards all the way to South Africa 

[JBP]

3 hours ago, Century Eight said:

JBP. These so called running boards were called “stream boards”.   When I first got into prewar Buicks in the seventies, older knowledgeable, restorers would snap these up whenever they could.  Haven’t seen any in a long time but you would have to part with a lot of money to acquire a set.

Thanks @Century Eight , @neil morse , and @buick looks fine for 39

 

That little body and design move has Harlow Curtice's fingerprints all over it! I'll have to dig out my Buick books and refresh myself on the changes. 
 

[Century Eight]

Buick looks fine for 39.  Wouldn’t you say that is because the back of the rear end of the 39 fender is different than the 40? I won’t see a 39 until maybe later this summer, but I know the body’s are the same from the firewall back of the forty (40 and 60). 

[buick looks fine for 39]

Yep, 1939-1940 40-60 series rear fenders are the same. The trailing edge of the front fenders are different and that explains why streamboards between 1939 and 1940 are not interchangeable, also the stainless  is not interchangeable. Streamboards on 1939 60 series cars were 2-3 inches longer than 40 series cars. The streamboard option came with gravel guards which were mounted on the leading edge of the rear fenders and they were the same between 1939 and 1940 40-60 series. 1940 50-70 series cars had gravel guards with a different design.

 

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