Need source of 1903 Wagner electric motor part

[Guest stude8]

I hope I don't get in trouble for this post but there is a great "Brain Trust" of things mechanical out there and some restoration projects also cross into automotive territory sometimes.

I am restoring a 1903 vintage Wagner 3 HP 230V single phase motor, type BA model 14T, of the kind sometimes called "Repulsion start / induction run". It uses a system of brushes that start it to rotate and when it reaches a certain RPM a centrifugal mechanism lifts the brushes off the commutator and runs induction mode until power is shut off and it then drops the brushes into start position when it slows down.

The system has what amounts to a Brass "Clutch" ring that has worn out and consequently the brushes don't lift properly. Outside of spending a lot of lathe time to try and replicate what I can only guess it should look like, does anyone know of a source for 100 year old motor parts?

The motor runs a Spencer 39" blower for a 1909 Austin pipe organ in a church I volunteer my repair skills at. Ring needed is about 3-7/8" OD and 3-5/8" ID with a raised ramp (Well worn away now)the pressure ring runs up against. See attachment photo.

Thanks, Stude8

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Stude 8,

Try posting your question on the "Fan Forum" of the Antique Fan Collectors Association website : "www.fancollectors.org" - the "AACA" of electric fan enthusiasts.... many of these guys are into other old stuff as well, and some seem to be familiar with bigger electric mototrs.

If you can get as much ID data as possible off the motor name plate and include that with your post, you might get the help you're seeking.

Regarding motors for antique musical instruments: it is usually best to repair the original motor rather than replace with a new unit; among other reasons is that these old motors were designed to run at specific speeds, and while it is theoretically possible to change pulley sizes(if belt-driven), the end result is often not ideal.

A specific instance that comes to my mind is a friend who had a "reproducing player piano" from the '20s, that had an electric pump on it with an induction motor that ran at 1100 rpm (slow by today's standards for fractional hp motors).

The windings were fried, so he replaced it with a similar hp rated modern motor that ran at 1725 rpm, which caused the bellows-pump to work to fast, causing problems with regulation of the vacuum; then he tried to change the motor pulley to get the pump back down to proper speed, and ran into problems there because it was a flat-belt pulley set-up; and finally, there was the issue of the noise from the motor itself, which was higher than that generated by the original unit.

He eventually had the original unit re-wound and re-installed, and everything now works smoothly, quietly, and correctly.

Since it took nearly one hundred years for your original starting clutch to wear-out, I'd venture that it's worth while to make another one and get another 90-plus years out of it!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Stude8...

Frank offered, probably, the best route. Never know what may turn up on that website.

I pondered my foundry experience/input, and, to cast, basically a ring without a "good" pattern for such a "one piece" requirement would be cost prohibitive.

The alternative may be to contact a "bar-stock" supplier. They, usually, stock hollows, solids, rectangular, etc., metals, of which, machine tool folks utilize in industry. They cover ferrous and non-ferrous. Being a "church" requirement, possibly you could be offered a non-gratis piece. Try: Federal Bronze' website. We utilize them for tool steel and pattern plates for Disamatics in the ferrous casting production.

Just a note of advise...add .120 for machine stock allowance. Using calipres, take a reading on what may be the thickest section, add .120.

You will, more than likely, have to get it machined by someone. After seeing your photo, I cannot do anything to build it up to use as a working pattern. A circumference is the toughest design to sand cast and hold the desired dimensions.

Regards, Peter J.

[Guest stude8]

Thank you Frank & Peter for the "Fan Forum" tip.

I did successfully pass "Replusion motor repair 101" over the weekend. I lead soldered a band of .080 brass braze rod around the ID of the brass ring, I was too chicken to braze it for fear of core meltdown of the precious ring. It was a slow go but by clamping it every 3/4" at a time I got very tight compliance with the ring wear ramp.

Took it to the company shop on lunch hour and turned it on a lathe to restore 22-1/2 degree pitch contact surface. A little hand burnishing with crocus cloth and the devil aligned on the money. Put the motor together Tuesday PM and it started, came up to speed in 3 or 4 seconds, presto the brushes now lift a good 1/4" rather than a feeble .030".

The photos I have are too many bytes to attach to the forum, but you would see this thing is industrial strength, the motor is only 3hp but the frame is larger than a NEMA 364 size. The two 39" impeller fans really turn up a storm at 1160RPM.

Anyway the mission church located on the west side of Chicago will have organ music Easter AM.

Stude8

[RoadsterRich]

Very cool, congratulations on the repair. Wish I knew enough to be of help, sure am glad we have lots of wise and sharing minded folks around.

I know the Church must feel you are a blessing...

Rich

[Peter J.Heizmann]

That's good news, Stude8.

Regards, Peter J.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Stude 8,

"Necessity is a mother...."

Glad to hear you "got your wind up" again!

[Guest stude8]

Just for the friends who kindly responded to my post, I have not heard of any Wagner parts sources, to be expected I guess after 100 years.

While there are only pictures of what is located upstairs and not the blower in the basement, you can see the instrument and read the short history of repairing it at www.fraternitenotredame.com Click on "News" and then scroll to Austin Organ Opus 271 for the story. Thanks, Stude8

[Guest]

I'm glad it all worked out for you, I was gonna say that I have a nice Dalton 12 inch lathe with a taper attachement AND a tool post grinder, guess you won't be needing it!