Trunk lighting question

[MrFreeze]

One goal I have with all my classic cars is to get everything working the way it is supposed to.  I opened the trunk yesterday and noticed an orange wire inside the trunk lid, disconnected at one end.  The other end has a light bulb socket I didn't know was there.  Perusing the wiring diagrams, I can see this is an accessory trunk light.  It seems to tie into the same circuit that feeds the two interior lights in the rear sail panels.

 

I'd like to reconnect this and make it work again, but I'm not sure where the connection is made, or what it is supposed to look like.  The wiring diagram just shows it teed into the interior light circuit.  The semi-realistic  diagrams showing where wiring runs in the car show a connection somewhere in the vicinity of the forward left corner of the trunk area.

 

Time permitting I am going to take out the spare tire and  trunk carpeting and go prospecting up there.  At a quick glance, I didn't see any unfilled connectors.  Can anyone give me a hint as to what I might be looking for?  Is the connection in the trunk area, or in the car interior?  What do I need to remove to find it?  And finally, what makes this light come on when you open the trunk?  From the schematics, it appears it would only turn on if the interior lights are on.  Not super useful if that is the case (although I would want to fix it anyway).

 

Here's what is looks like in there before I take everything out, in case this jogs someone's memory.

 

Thanks,

MrFreeze

[RivNut]

Could be for the optional rear seat speaker. A mercury switch in the lamp housing activates the light when the trunk is opened.

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, MrFreeze said:

One goal I have with all my classic cars is to get everything working the way it is supposed to.  I opened the trunk yesterday and noticed an orange wire inside the trunk lid, disconnected at one end.  The other end has a light bulb socket I didn't know was there.  Perusing the wiring diagrams, I can see this is an accessory trunk light.  It seems to tie into the same circuit that feeds the two interior lights in the rear sail panels.

 

I'd like to reconnect this and make it work again, but I'm not sure where the connection is made, or what it is supposed to look like.  The wiring diagram just shows it teed into the interior light circuit.  The semi-realistic  diagrams showing where wiring runs in the car show a connection somewhere in the vicinity of the forward left corner of the trunk area.

 

Time permitting I am going to take out the spare tire and  trunk carpeting and go prospecting up there.  At a quick glance, I didn't see any unfilled connectors.  Can anyone give me a hint as to what I might be looking for?  Is the connection in the trunk area, or in the car interior?  What do I need to remove to find it?  And finally, what makes this light come on when you open the trunk?  From the schematics, it appears it would only turn on if the interior lights are on.  Not super useful if that is the case (although I would want to fix it anyway).

 

Here's what is looks like in there before I take everything out, in case this jogs someone's memory.

 

Thanks,

MrFreeze

In that forward left area of the trunk should be some electrical connectors for the various things in the rear. The trunk light connects into the circuit with the sail panel lights in that area. They both use an orange wire. I don't remember if the trunk light wire is hardwired in or if it has a plug at the end to go into a connector. As Ed said the trunk light is activated by a mercury switch in the lamp housing. 

 

Bill

[MrFreeze]

Guess I better power that light up and see if the mercury switch still works before I tear the trunk apart looking for the connector.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

MrFreeze

[RivNut]

You should have battery power to the trunk light so no need to have the lights or ignition switch on.  There’s a connector between the harness and the trunk wire. It’s close to he left hinge and comes from the deck, not the floor.  First thing I’d do is to try a new bulb.

[gungeey]

There's also a pigtail plug about 4 or 6" from the bulb socket inside between the lid and frame that could be disconnected

[MrFreeze]

I pulled the entire thing out, including the bulb socket, so I know that pigtail is connected.  Orange wire appears to have been cut near the forward edge of the trunk lid, probably by whoever removed the trunk lid when the car was painted.

 

MrFreeze

[Turbinator]

Mr Freeze, what the guys say is gospel. As a suggestion for your future efforts the 63 Buick Service Manual is great to have. In addition a company sells laminated color coded 11” x17” or so wiring schematic. Both cost money of course, but I found the expense a great investment. I do not have a vested interest in the products I mentioned.

Turbinator

[MrFreeze]

26 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Mr Freeze, what the guys say is gospel. As a suggestion for your future efforts the 63 Buick Service Manual is great to have. In addition a company sells laminated color coded 11” x17” or so wiring schematic. Both cost money of course, but I found the expense a great investment. I do not have a vested interest in the products I mentioned.

Turbinator

Totally agree, I have both '64 manuals (Body and Chassis).  But they don't show the detail I am asking about.

 

MrFreeze

[Turbinator]

4 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

But they don't show the detail I am asking about.

That happens. Those lines in some of the diagrams are nearly impossible to make out. Good Luck I’m sure you will get it.

[RivNut]

The detail is in the 11 x 17 diagram that Turb mentioned a couple of posts back. Plus it has additional  diagrams on the back for your power windows and power seat.  The size and the color make it easy to follow.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/362608302941?hash=item546d239b5d:g:HGMAAOSwNphWXarb&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsI6lgM4I3Kv9BHqQ2%2B7bDxrx2UZUImvEbQNsC9l4yIJmwlREfItqSQy59iWRlYPvuFyLq6uikPiXy1Qf12FKhprILnUEJ2aODbFqSPE38kFMV37n5QgaDz1%2FwnKuk6QWw5nYgOhzCvbPhn1GgACzFeGiCxOdEmf9u%2FKVPwJDKVNEExeXRSJ7H6oO5oeQMMArRFcOCagQJhLNTNcZTTvYGJegKgoBWYKK5Vi5e6TuWikp|tkp%3ABk9SR5DK8LzAYQ

[Riv Eng]

Mr. Freeze, as luck would have it, I have some pictures that may help you from my tear-down early last year. At the bottom of this post is a close up of the existing rear wiring diagram for '64. As you can see, the orange wire comes from your flat body wiring harness (that runs along the floor pan from your dash to the back drivers seat) and powers both the right and left sail panels and the trunk light. You should find the connector in your trunk space behind the rear drivers seat back, under the rear package tray.   

 

The orange wire should travel down the drivers trunk hinge, as pictured: 

 

Below is a picture of the rear connector that connects to the flat body harness. I would suggest you remove it, and remove the pin for the orange wire. The Orange wire is 14 gauge. The pins are removed by inserting an ice pick or other long thin tool from the front under the metal connector and pushing up on the bent tang to release the pin. You can either:

a) Replace the pin with a new one and add the missing wire

b) Pry open the tangs and insert your new wire, followed by re-crimping the tangs

c) strip a section of wire close to the pin, wrap your new wire, solder and shrink wrap and re-insert the pin. 

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Riv Eng (see edit history)

[RivNut]

The detail is in the 11 x 17 diagram that Turb mentioned a couple of posts back. Plus it has additional  diagrams on the back for your power windows and power seat.  The size and the color make it easy to follow.

[MrFreeze]

Riv Eng, thank you very much for an EXTREMELY helpful post.  Now I know exactly what to look for, and where to look for it.  Hopefully I will find time to dig into the trunk this weekend and get my light working again.

 

MfFreeze

[Riv Eng]

1 hour ago, MrFreeze said:

Riv Eng, thank you very much for an EXTREMELY helpful post.  Now I know exactly what to look for, and where to look for it.  Hopefully I will find time to dig into the trunk this weekend and get my light working again.

 

MfFreeze

No Problem. Check to see if your sail panel lights work first. If they do, then you know the Orange wire is live, and you just need to tee into it, as described above. The trunk light grounds to the deck lid, so you just need the single 14 Ga orange wire routed to the correct location. 

 

If the wire was cut when the deck lid was repainted, you may find the cut end of the orange wire dangling from the flat body connector. You could also strip, solder, and shrink wrap the wire connection if you have enough wire to work with. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Riv Eng (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Two things: Make sure that you have a mercury switch socket, and use the existing wire to pull the new wire through. The existing wire is wrapped in a cloth sleeve to secure it from wearing through and shorting out.  That orange wire is a hot wire.  It’s hot to the sail panel lights as well.  All of the interior lights have a hot wire running to them.  All of those lights have a switch on the ground wire.  When you really get to digging, you’ll find that there are three separate circuits that control the interior lights. When you pull either door jamb switch, you’ll find three wires going to each switch, one for each circuit.  When the door jamb button pops out, it grounds to the door jamb and the lights come on. DO NOT buy the switch sold by OPGI (or anything else for that matter), have your old ones rebuilt.  Gord Wolfgang rebuilds these. You’ll find his contact information in the classified section of the Riview under Services.

[MrFreeze]

Sail panel lights work fine, since last weekend I replaced the door jamb switches with these: https://bestoffercounts.com/product/door-jamb-switches-with-boots-pair-1963-1964-1965-buick-riviera-custom-made/  An excellent product and easy install, plus I didn't have to wait for my old switches to be repaired and returned.

 

Hopefully I will find the other end of that orange wire hiding in the recesses of the trunk somewhere...then I can reconnect it and be on my way.

 

Socket was still installed in factory location and appears to be original, so I ASS-UME it is the correct mercury type.  We will see.

 

Thanks everyone,

MrFreeze

[RivNut]

Those door jamb switches may work but the are not the original style. You can see the one Y wire where the one connector on the switch splits to make two circuits. Chances are that you will not have separate controls for each circuit at each location.

[MrFreeze]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

Those door jamb switches may work but the are not the original style. You can see the one Y wire where the one connector on the switch splits to make two circuits. Chances are that you will not have separate controls for each circuit at each location.

Why would I need separate controls for those circuits?

 

MrFreeze

[RivNut]

If someone in the back seat turned on the lamp behind the console, you wouldn’t want the sail panel lights to come on. Same with the light above the glove box, or the console lights.  When you close the ground switch on one circuit, if it’s tied into another hot wire, you also turn on that circuit.  Kind of like having the bathroom light tied to the same switch as the kitchen lights. You wouldn’t want to be sitting in the bathroom and have your wife turn off the kitchen lights.  
 

Basically Buick designed each circuit to be operated separately except for even a door is opened. Don’t know why anyone would be willing to accept anything less.

[MrFreeze]

You made me curious, so I just got in the car, closed the door, and turned on the lamp behind the console (I didn't even know there was a light there!).

 

It came on, but none of the other interior lights did.

 

When I open either door, all interior lights come on.  Not sure about the light above the glove box or the console lights - I don't see any switches that would enable me to turn them on by themselves.  The switch in the center of the dash turns on all interior lighting.

 

Seems to me it is working as Buick intended.

 

MrFreeze

[RivNut]

There is a switch under the dash for the light above the glove box, and if you turn the knob on the headlight switch all the way counter clockwise, you’ll turn on the sail panel and console lights.  

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, MrFreeze said:

You made me curious, so I just got in the car, closed the door, and turned on the lamp behind the console (I didn't even know there was a light there!).

 

It came on, but none of the other interior lights did.

 

When I open either door, all interior lights come on.  Not sure about the light above the glove box or the console lights - I don't see any switches that would enable me to turn them on by themselves.  The switch in the center of the dash turns on all interior lighting.

 

Seems to me it is working as Buick intended.

 

MrFreeze

  The switch at the top center of the dash should turn on the console side lights and the light above the glovebox door. This switch should not illuminate the sail panel lights or the light in the rear of the console.

Tom Mooney

[MrFreeze]

Where is the switch under the dash for the glove box light?  I am new to these cars and may be overlooking it.  I am only aware of the big chrome one that turns on all the interior lighting.

 

Headlight switch all the way CCW turns on the 2 sail panel lights only.

 

MrFreeze

[1965rivgs]

23 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Where is the switch under the dash for the glove box light?  I am new to these cars and may be overlooking it.  I am only aware of the big chrome one that turns on all the interior lighting.

 

Headlight switch all the way CCW turns on the 2 sail panel lights only.

 

MrFreeze

  You referenced "the switch in the center of the dash"...I was referring to your reference. The switch is marked "courtesy lights".

Tom

[Riv Eng]

44 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

  You referenced "the switch in the center of the dash"...I was referring to your reference. The switch is marked "courtesy lights".

Tom

As found in 1964 model 

[MrFreeze]

Got it.  I just went out and confirmed that the courtesy light switch turns on the two lights on the console, and the one above the glove box, but not the sail panel lights.

 

Open door (either one) turns on all lights - those mentioned above plus sail panel lights and the light at the back of the console.

 

Headlight switch rotated CCW turns on sail panel lights.

 

Is everything as it should be?

 

If so, I would definitely have to endorse the Bestoffercounts upgrade, as it appears to fix what I think is the weak point in the OEM door jamb switch - it gives you a dedicated ground wire, rather than relying on the switch to door jamb connection for a ground.

 

MrFreeze

 

PS - that dash in the Riv Eng pic is rough, but I love that early AM/FM radio.

[Riv Eng]

4 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

PS - that dash in the Riv Eng pic is rough, but I love that early AM/FM radio.

Thanks, I know its rough. It had been sitting in a shed since 1998 before I got my hands on it early last year. Glad you got all your circuitry sorted, and good luck with getting your trunk light fixed. 

[MrFreeze]

To put the original topic to bed, I will report that after removing the spare tire and some of the carpet and trim pieces I was able to locate the cut off end of the orange wire.  A solder seal connector later the light was working again.  The clips that are supposed to hold the wire to the trunk hinge were MIA, so I had to improvise a little, but it looks okay.  And: functional trunk light!  It comes on when the lid reaches about 30 degrees open.

 

Thanks for the help, as usual.

 

MrFreeze