29 Chandler Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Went to Egge today, as I expected they did not have chains in stock for this engine. They did take my (three) chains to see if they have the material in stock to make new ones. Should know in a few days. Will not know pricing until I find out if they can make them. If they can be made and anyone else needs a set let me know and we can get them made at the same time while they have a set to measure from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Aa simple way to see the slackness in the timing chain is to remove the distributor cap , turn the fan by hand back and forth and look at the rotor and see how long it takes to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 While Egge was very helpful and prompt with their service they did not have stock to supply the chains. They did recommend we contact Ramsey Products for the chains. I did a seperate search for Coventry Chains and there is a place in England that still provides support to vintage cars. They use Ramsey as well, so I have an email out to them. From the details on their website I am encouraged they have the stock and the details to provide me with an exact replacement for my original chains, pretty incredible after 109 years! Ramsey Silent Chains 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 Spoke with a couple of people at Ramsey today. I am sending the chains to them to be measured and see if the fit properly on a known 60 degree sprocket. It seems there is yet another specification about these chains I was not familiar with. The chains are most likely the standard 60 degree chains, but they could also be a 75 degree chain. There are generally two options to figure this out, one is to take the chain apart and the other is to place it on a known sprocket. Since there is still a chance I need to reuse on original chains taking them apart was not really a good option. More to come next week... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I am enjoying following along with your thread. Keep up the good work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 Heard back from Ramsey Chains this morning, unfortunately my chains are non-standard. Might be something unique to the chains on 1913-1915 Chandlers as the Whitney catalog lists the same chain from 1916-1922, which I was hoping was just a typo. So now I am in the process of removing all six sprockets so they can be sent off to Ramsey. They'll machine a set of their sprockets to match the hubs on mine and if there is anything else custom that might need to be done. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 You are now cooking with gas. Good going. Let us know when you get it fixed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 On 3/6/2023 at 5:41 PM, 29 Chandler said: Heard back from Ramsey Chains this morning, unfortunately my chains are non-standard. Might be something unique to the chains on 1913-1915 Chandlers as the Whitney catalog lists the same chain from 1916-1922, which I was hoping was just a typo. So now I am in the process of removing all six sprockets so they can be sent off to Ramsey. They'll machine a set of their sprockets to match the hubs on mine and if there is anything else custom that might need to be done. Why is it I have little faith the new gears and chains will come back correctly? Don’t destroy the old gears and chains……you MUST have a backup plan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 Agreed Ed. I have expressed my desires to the factory that the original parts remain in a condition that they can go back on the car if needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, edinmass said: Why is it I have little faith the new gears and chains will come back correctly? Don’t destroy the old gears and chains……you MUST have a backup plan. If I could upvote this comment 10 or more times, I would. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share Posted March 8, 2023 I finally caught a break. The large chain for the Cam is standard (60 degree) so at least I will not need to replace two of the sprockets. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 Update All the sprockets are now off to be copied to match the new chains that Ramsey is going to make. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Rule of thumb. Make three sets. Use the best ones on your car, and sell the others. I would also get extra chains to go with the sprockets. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozierman Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Chris, Great idea to have three sets made. I hope you don't try to sell me an inferior set. Of course seeing as there are only two 1914 Model 15 Chandlers left, there is a very limited market! Please keep us(me) posted on this project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 When making spare parts for my 1917 White, I figured I would make parts for all the other known engines so no one would have to duplicate my efforts. I have since found two more engines……..so one never knows what will pop up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 11, 2023 Author Share Posted March 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Lozierman said: Chris, Great idea to have three sets made. I hope you don't try to sell me an inferior set. Of course seeing as there are only two 1914 Model 15 Chandlers left, there is a very limited market! Please keep us(me) posted on this project. I would assume your second Chandler would use the same chains and sprockets. Have checked the condition of them? I’m sure the car you bought from Harold did d not have its chains replaced either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 7:23 PM, 29 Chandler said: Took our 1914 Chandler L-head Six out for a tour today and noticed a new sound at higher RPMs (probably around 3k). Sounds to me like a knock from one of the rods but I am not quite sure. The engine has probably not been apart in over 60 years, but during this time the car has probably only seen about 10k miles or so. If it is a loose rod do you know if the pistons can come out without removing the crank? I am hoping if this needs to be done I can fix it without removing the whole engine. For reference here is a picture I took of the engine a few years ago when I remove the engine pan to clean and inspect everything. Can you PLAY A TUNE?? In other words, when you tip into the throttle it will rattle but when you let up the noise is gone?? If so it wounds like wrist pin rattle. Of coarse it would help to hear the noise... is it a rattle or a hard rapping?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 12 hours ago, mikewest said: Can you PLAY A TUNE?? In other words, when you tip into the throttle it will rattle but when you let up the noise is gone?? If so it wounds like wrist pin rattle. Of coarse it would help to hear the noise... is it a rattle or a hard rapping?? No rattle that I remember, just a bit of pounding under load. I did take a video when the car was still running but the sound is not very distinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 My 1915 Buick, along with all the other early drive shaft driven Buick's, have a knock while driving. It is caused by the square drive that connects the transmission to the universals and drive shaft. It is because the universal joint is at an angle and not square to the torque tube. It is the way it was designed so there's no changing it. When you realize what it is it just becomes part of the harmonics of the car. Could this be what you are hearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 10 hours ago, Dandy Dave said: My 1915 Buick, along with all the other early drive shaft driven Buick's, have a knock while driving. It is caused by the square drive that connects the transmission to the universals and drive shaft. It is because the universal joint is at an angle and not square to the torque tube. It is the way it was designed so there's no changing it. When you realize what it is it just becomes part of the harmonics of the car. Could this be what you are hearing? Unfortunately no because I can hear it when the car is not moving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Update We can have the sprockets made and the chains cut to fit and have them delivered this summer. Anything can be done with enough money and experience. For the full set we are looking at about $6k 😳 But without them the engine will not be happy. The one challenge I have is the sprockets for the crank and cam need to have their key way cut to maintain the correct alignment between the two. The chain manufacturer said they could do this but could only guarantee +\- 0.5”. I did not feel this was good enough and asked them to leave the bores blank. At this point I think we have a path forward but am open to your feedback before we approve the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 You mean like half an inch?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 35 minutes ago, Oldtech said: You mean like half an inch?? Yes seemed like a lot to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) Just a brief note. Just “making” a new gear set with a modern chain isn’t good enough. You need an engineer to draw and oversee this project. Oiling system needs to be looked at and evaluated. And a +/- 1/2 degree is NOT acceptable. You can easily have a 6 thousand dollar shelf talker. I would be using an experienced engine shop to do the project, not just a gear cutter. Just my two cents. Edited March 31, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 As Ed pointed out, Spend the money only once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) Ed not sure if I was clear on my last post. I would not be having Ramsey cut the key way on the 1/2” sprockets where the timing of the engine is a concern. I plan to have that done locally. Edited March 31, 2023 by 29 Chandler (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 Update After talking with Ramsey about their quote they found another distributor local to me that will handle the sale and took less of a markup. I was extremely happy that Ramsey understood that I am just trying to get my car back on the road and were willing to reach out to some of their other customers to find one who would be more sympathetic to our cause. Deposit has been sent to have the sprockets made and chains cut to length. My original chains and sprockets arrived back home this week. This was a big relief as there are only three set of these sprockets known and I have not seen the others to know if Chandler did indeed use the same sets in these two cars. It's also possible that some Lozier cars used the same sprockets, time will tell. I have received copies of the digital drawings that Ramsey made to review and approve. I'll be reviewing all of the measurements from the drawings against my original parts before approving the build of new parts. As mentioned before the keyways on the two 1/2" sprockets that drive the cam will be cut locally to insure the engine stays in time with original specs. If all goes well new parts will be delivered at the end of June. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 Long overdue on providing an update on this project. This week my new custom made sprockets and silent chains arrived from Ramsey Products in North Carolina. They shipped them to a local outlet that set the final price. Art at Discount Bearing Co. in Sun Valley CA was a pleasure to deal with. If any of you need help finding bearings, belts, chains, pulleys or sprockets I can highly recommend him for his customer service. Today I set the engine to TDC so I could confirm that the "prick punch marks" aligned on the cam and crank shaft sprockets as outlined in my parts guide. This will help the machine shop properly locate the keyway location when the bores are cut on the camshaft and crank sprockets. This was one step I did not ask Ramsey to do on the new sprockets. I'll work with a local shop to make sure this is done correctly. Overall I am very impressed with the quality of the new sprockets and chains. Ramsey did a very complete job of copying the old sprockets and machining the new ones to match. I installed the only sprockets I can do for now until the rest of the machine work is done. The new sprockets fit exactly as the originals did and will mesh correctly with the new chains. One question for the experts out there. The crankshaft has a key for each of the two sprockets that mount on the shaft. (See the two new sprockets on the right side of the picture.) There is no taper on the shaft, rather the outer sprocket was fixed to the crankshaft with a 1/4" steel dowel. I could not see this dowel when I was removing the sprocket with the puller. After a small amount of effort of the puller this dowel snapped into three neat pieces and then the sprocket easily cam off the shaft. On both ends the dowel was peened flush with the sprocket. Is this still the best method to secure the sprocket to the shaft? If so what type of metal should the dowel be made off? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 (edited) I would use C1144 StressProof please see attached spec,s and I would loctite in place Edited July 20, 2023 by playswithbrass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 20, 2023 Author Share Posted July 20, 2023 1 hour ago, playswithbrass said: I would use C1144 StressProof please see attached spec,s and I would loctite in place And then not peen the ends and rely on the Loctite to secure it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted July 20, 2023 Share Posted July 20, 2023 Correct,use the correct loctite product,just Google the company and go to applications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, playswithbrass said: Correct,use the correct loctite product,just Google the company and go to applications Great!! thank you I was not looking forward to smashing the ends of the dowel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playswithbrass Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 Looking for a positive update,any news cheers pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 Hi Pete, This week I got the two 1/2" wide sprockets back with their bores cut to the correct diameter. Next I have to reach out to a local machinist that has the tools to do the broaching on the sprockets. Once this is done I should be able to start the process to put it all back on the engine. Radiator is still in the shop, hoping to hear back from the shop with an update soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowo Posted September 7, 2023 Share Posted September 7, 2023 I’m really rooting for you and I hope you get it sorted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Update It's been a long time since my last update only because there has been nothing to share. Well we now I have all of the sprockets back and today I spent most of the day getting them installed. Chains will be next. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I admire your dedication. This was not a project for the "Faint-Hearted". Keep us posted on additional progress. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 As they say, "One step forward, and two steps back." I have three chains to install. The main chain for the cam and crankshaft is now installed, but as you can see below the two "smaller" chains that drive the accessories are each too short, UGH. This at least should be something I can fix with Ramsey Products who manufactures the chains and determined the lengths. @Matt Harwood I am beginning to understand your pain with the car that shall not be named. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 Good news to report. The manufacturer of the chains responded yesterday morning and will be sending additional “pitches” for each chain. In a few weeks they should be shipped. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 This is TYPICAL of early car problems. It's why it can take months to solve what use to be a simple situation. It seems to take four times longer to get anything accomplished today compared to just ten years ago. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now