The Unrestored Car Appreciation Thread

[nzcarnerd]

The post on the previous page with the black '32 Packard reminds me of this one. Due to it being right hand drive 1932 Packard Light Eight 'coupe sedan' I suspect it is a particularly rare variant. I don't know many details of its history other than what is noted in the 1960s newspaper clip. What the sentence about it being 'one of three special models made by the Packard company' refers to I don't know. I recall seeing it at a few events in the early 1970s but then it 'disappeared' into Graeme Craw's Packard collection where it remains today. The collection has 'morphed' more recently into a full fledged museum -   The mission of the museum is to show the changes in design and technology from horse drawn vehicles through to motor vehicles and heavy machinery that made NZ what it is today. This charitable trust encompasses a vast collection of vintage cars and early heavy machinery housed in 4 large sheds (packardmuseum.co.nz)

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

8 hours ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

Specifically the front fenders are 1915 style mounted with the 1914 style brackets.

 

I do not know when Ford began using those fenders, however both late production 1914 style open cars (which were produced well into April of 1915!) and early 1915 style closed and open cars were getting those odd fenders for several months!

The model transition that year for the model T is a long and complicated story, that hasn't been widely told. 

Sadly, literally hundreds of late production 1914 style model Ts had their history erased by hobbyists during the 1950s through 1970s believing that their odd fenders and 1915 serial number engines were incorrect!

[Ole Jim]

dont have a  handy picture but I have my grandfathers 1927 Pontiac Landau that has had roof material replaced, new paint and  new tires,  still licensed and insured and driven occasionally yearly. PS I am 84

[arcticbuicks]

wow.....same family since new ?

[dalef62]

My 1948 Lincoln Continental that has never been restored.  My father bought it in 1968 from a local doctor.  Has it's dings and scratches but is still presentable.

[alsancle]

You guys know I have a fondness for prewar German engineering.   I got to drive this 853 Horch last year and it was a treat.  The doors shut like a bank vault.  Construction quality, engineering and details are off the charts.  I attended the Stevenson Auction in Courtland NY in 2005 thinking I might steal this car but that wasn't going to happen.    Once repaint in the late 40s, early 50s.   Original interior, bright work, never been apart, etc.  Pebble Beach preservation class award winner in 2010.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[George K]

That’s one smooth running buggy.

[Tph479]

13 hours ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

Here’s one to make you all cry… 

 

This 1914 T has all of the original paperwork from new and was in absolutely fantastic condition when my dad passed away but since that time has not been treated well by my brother…

 

If anyone remembers Bill Eads who sold T parts out of Wilmington NC as the company T-Nuts, this was his car he called Miss Vickery. She was a HPOF car with a lot of transitional part features that was built late in the 1914 model year and was proof that Ford used a number of “floor sweepings” instead of solid time changes. Specifically the front fenders are 1915 style mounted with the 1914 style brackets.

 

 

You should inform your brother that they invented these things called “Shelves” to place objects on. You should swap him a couple of shelves for the car… Cool car, thanks for sharing.

[Tph479]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

You guys know I have a fondness for prewar German engineering.   I got to drive this 853 Horch last year and it was a treat.  The doors shut like a bank vault.  Construction quality, engineering and details are off the charts.  I attended the Stevenson Auction in Courtland NY in 2005 thinking I might steal this car but that wasn't going to happen.    Once repaint in the late 40s, early 50s.   Original interior, bright work, never been apart, etc.  Pebble Beach preservation class award winner in 2010.

 

 

 

Fantastic picture of the Horch next to the Td. It really shows the size comparison.

[Tph479]

7 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

The post on the previous page with the black '32 Packard reminds me of this one. Due to it being right hand drive 1932 Packard Light Eight 'coupe sedan' I suspect it is a particularly rare variant. I don't know many details of its history other than what is noted in the 1960s newspaper clip. What the sentence about it being 'one of three special models made by the Packard company' refers to I don't know. I recall seeing it at a few events in the early 1970s but then it 'disappeared' into Graeme Craw's Packard collection where it remains today. The collection has 'morphed' more recently into a full fledged museum -   The mission of the museum is to show the changes in design and technology from horse drawn vehicles through to motor vehicles and heavy machinery that made NZ what it is today. This charitable trust encompasses a vast collection of vintage cars and early heavy machinery housed in 4 large sheds (packardmuseum.co.nz)

 

 

I can account for this coupe sedan 563-317 in New Zealand, and 4 in the United States. Has anyone ever seen one of these coupe sedans besides  the black one, brown one, maroon one and blue one in the states? Off memory the highest coupe sedan tag known goes to 563-318, so at least 308 of them were built in 1932. Ford borrowed this design on their 1933 Victoria. Very cool car.

[edinmass]

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

[Dandy Dave]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

Like it says below in the top line of my signature. 🤓 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

You guys know I have a fondness for prewar German engineering.   I got to drive this 853 Horch last year and it was a treat.  The doors shut like a bank vault.  Construction quality, engineering and details are off the charts.  I attended the Stevenson Auction in Courtland NY in 2005 thinking I might steal this car but that wasn't going to happen.    Once repaint in the late 40s, early 50s.   Original interior, bright work, never been apart, etc.  Pebble Beach preservation class award winner in 2010.

 

 

 

 

It would be fantastic if Erwin Rommel's badly damaged Horsch turned up in a barn somewhere. I had the honor of meeting RCAF Spitfire pilot Charlie Fox , who is credited with the attack, on a couple of occasions.

[George K]

59 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

Looks, outside pipes and demand in the motherland. Not quality or drivability. 

[Restorer32]

11 hours ago, Tph479 said:

I can account for this coupe sedan 563-317 in New Zealand, and 4 in the United States. Has anyone ever seen one of these coupe sedans besides  the black one, brown one, maroon one and blue one in the states? Off memory the highest coupe sedan tag known goes to 563-318, so at least 308 of them were built in 1932. Ford borrowed this design on their 1933 Victoria. Very cool car.

I had the remains of a '32 900 Coupe Sedan that literally washed out of the bank of a river in Minnesota.  Way, way beyond being restored. No identifying data plate. There is also one that was donated to the Packard Museum in Dayton.  It was street rodded some years ago.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, George K said:

Looks, outside pipes and demand in the motherland. Not quality or drivability. 

George. Not fair for you to compare Mercedes with two passenger cabriolet A body to the Horch with the five passenger 853 body.

Apples  to apples would be 853 to the cabriolet C Mercedes.  I wrote up the differences in the Horch thread, basically they’re the same car minus a supercharger.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Regarding the 1932 Packard 900 victoria - 45+ years ago there was one here on long island owned by father and son Angelo and Robert LoRusso . Great people , both now gone. That car was in need of some lower body work as it was a bit crusty although looked ok. Someplace here I have 8 x 10 photographs taken by Packard of a 900 series sedan when new that was a prototype and had different styling to the hood where it met the windshield at the cowl. I did a story using those photos for CCCA when I was still a member of that club before I was asked to leave by the then President Jensen because I couldn't attend events/meetings due to heart surgery.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[George K]

5 hours ago, alsancle said:

George. Not fair for you to compare Mercedes with two passenger cabriolet A body to the Horch with the five passenger 853 body.

Apples  to apples would be 853 to the cabriolet C Mercedes.  I wrote up the differences in the Horch thread, basically they’re the same car minus a supercharger.

 

It’s fair because this is an A cab Horch. Their terminology not mine. Plus lack of set back radiator doesn’t help.

[George K]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

Plus Ed didn’t state what bodies. 

[edinmass]

Having worked on both platforms, you can’t give me the 500 or 540. When it comes to Auto Union, I’ll take the Horch. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[George K]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

I just answered your question why someone would a 500/540k. People eat with their eyes when push comes to shove. How many of either brands have you seen on tours? 

[edinmass]

I have seen a few Horch’s. Never seen any 500/540’s run worth a dam. Seems every one has an excuse. I anticipate having a Horch in the shop soon to dial in……….doesn’t pay much, but I will give it a special discount as I fine them fascinating. I’m currently reviewing the engine diagrams and shop manuals. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[ron hausmann]

All -

    Here are pictures of two of my running, unrestored Kissels.

    The green one is a 1921 Kissel Sport Tourster. Only one extant. Has 14,000 original miles. Runs like a beast.

    The blue one is a 1924 Kissel Victoria Coupe’. Possibly the ugliest Kissel ever made. Was 

Located in Wyoming, then Ohio. Has 30,000 miles and runs great. Also only one of that model that survives!

    The green 1921 Kissel will be at Boca Raton Concours de Elegance this month. 
    Ron Hausmann P.E.

Edited February 2, 2023 by ron hausmann (see edit history)

[George K]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

I have seen a few Horch’s. Never seen any 500/540’s run worth a dam. Seems every one has an excuse. I anticipate having a Horch in the shop soon to dial in……….doesn’t pay much, but I will give it a special discount as I fine them fascinating. I’m currently reviewing the engine diagrams and shop manuals. 

I didn’t say it’s a bad car just different styling.

[arcticbuicks]

interesting where the distributor is,and the front spring set up ,do the springs hold the caster camber also

[wayne sheldon]

8 hours ago, ron hausmann said:

The blue one is a 1924 Kissel Victoria Coupe’. Possibly the ugliest Kissel ever made.

 

8 hours ago, ron hausmann said:

 

Edited 6 hours ago by ron hausmann (see edit history)

 

I don't care what  anybody says! I think that car is BEAUTIFIUL!

[Dandy Dave]

22 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Why someone would want a 500K or a 540K instead of the Horch is beyond me.  

I thought you were talking about one of them retirement bank acounts. I had to re-read things. 🙃

[V16]

What happened to the unrestored, original car theme?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, V16 said:

What happened to the unrestored, original car theme?

 

  Mission creep ?

 

  Ben

[TAKerry]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:34 AM, Mark Wetherbee said:

Having spent a couple weeks in cell phone purgatory (very rural Tennessee) I came back to a treat! Some very wonderful cars here, thank you for the thread, pictures, and stories!

 

Unrestored cars have always been my favorites to see, and although I have shown it off too many times here here is my 31 Model 43 Pierce. It was purchased off eBay and took two years to recondition its engine but it is a joy to drive.

One of my previous cars was the 29 Model A Ford which had a brush paint job from the 50’s and a new top but everything else was not messed with. The car ran but was so worn out that when I had the engine done it went from a standard bore to .120 over to get all four perfect again… 

 

 

The building with the blue roof is very similar in design to a gas station local to me in MD. I posted a pic in the architec. thread section under gas station in Elkton MD.

[alsancle]

We are running out of steam.   I posted this to the four door sedan thread but I do not believe here.   It is a J8-90 Stearns Knight.  385 Cubic Inch Sleeve Valve.   I think it is now on its 3rd owner.

[alsancle]

Here are some pictures of the Stearns engine.  This is a very late car (I think the latest known) and has all the final upgrades including the Skinner Oil Rectifier (pictured) two barrel carb and radiator shutters.

[alsancle]

Here is a better shot showing the engine in my car.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

and a hemi,what is below the  manifold at the rear ?

[alsancle]

30 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

and a hemi,what is below the  manifold at the rear ?

The Skinner Oil Rectifier.

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

The Skinner Oil Rectifier.

In the mid 20's Packard used the Skinner Rectifier. Also, Stutz and Willy's Knight. Maybe other car mfg.

[edinmass]

Looks fantastic!

[edinmass]

Gentlemen, it’s come to my attention that a great LARGE collection of original cars has recently been sold, the collection which was unknown to me, yet within my sphere of influence, somehow was so low profile it managed to slip past most hunters. I would expect to see some of the cars on the pages here in the near future. Some very unusual stuff, including some things I have never seen before. Get your checkbooks ready. I’m sworn to secrecy, buy you can PM me your interests and I will pass them along. The total number is almost fifty cars.

[drhach]

If your car "self identifies" as original that's no business of mine

[61polara]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:32 PM, TAKerry said:

I dont think this is an argument that can be won. Even if a clearl definition was instituted, by say the AACA. To me an original unrestored car is one that is presented as it was built. A repaint would disqualify. New interior, dq. New brakes, new fuel lines, new tires, thats fine. I have great respect for cars that fit into that category, maybe one repaint over the last 80 years or so but where is the cuttoff? Is an 'original car' that was repainted in 1950 any different than an original car that was repainted in 2020? To me they are both the same. Once the factory stuff has been covered its no longer original. SO, maybe original unrestored could be further divided into what level of preservation it truly is.

At one time I would use the term 'survivor' until someone made to me a very valid point. Arent all of the cars that are on the show field whether restored to beyond or not 'survivors'? 

AACA was the leader in recognition of unrestored cars and motorcycles when in 1988 it created the Historical Preservation of Original Features (HPOF) Class for our Nationals.  A dedicated team is at each of the AACA Nationals to evaluate the cars in the HPOF Class and award a HPOF award or higher level HPOF Original award.  Deductions are not taken for maintenance items as long as correct factory parts or reproductions are used.  New upholstery and paint are deductions, taken by the number of seats or panels repainted.  Age is considered in the scoring with newer cars permitted fewer deductions than older cars.  In the past five years, 1149 HPOF awards have been awarded to HPOF cars at our AACA Nationals.  In addition, each year a motorcycle and two cars (pre 1930 and 1930 and newer) are awarded National Awards at our Annual Convention.  The judging forms are available by downloading the Judges Guidelines from the AACA Home page.

 

Dave Bowman

AACA National HPOF Chairman