1950 Buick VIN Chassis Serial Number location and attatchment method

[Sonomatic]

Folks with other makes of cars may find this post helpful, but I posted it here because the pictures are specific to 1950 Buicks.

 

-Bought my Buick in October 2022.  After the normal, needs brakes, needs this and that for vehicle safety inspection, I made the mistake of taking my antique car to the normal inspecion lanes.  My car had current Maryland registration when I bought it.  When the inspector saw that the "VIN" chassis serial number tag was attatched with screws, he went and retrieved his supervisor, who proclaimed my "VIN" tag was upsidedown and installed with screws.  He told the inspector to refer me to the ATU, and that's where this begins.

 

ATU stands for Auto Theft Unit, admistered in my state, by the Delaware State Police.  After my initial panic that the car was stolen and that I had already spent a considerable some to make it road worthy, I realized that the issue was with the "VIN" tag being attatched with screws, which sends gives any Motor Vehicle type the "vapors".  

 

I reached out to Ben Bruce aka First Born and this sight, Phil Taylor and Jeff Schindler over at the Buick Club of America.  Together, we gathered up these images of "VIN" plates, most are from original, never touched cars.  The pictures of the body tags are included to illustrate the use of the same Phillips screws used by Buick to attatch both tags.  Last "VIN" tag is mine, obviously NOT installed upsidedown, but we'll revisit this shortly. The strategy here is to have as much documentation as possible to overwhelm the DMV with information to support your case.  My felllow '50 Buick owners provided me with pictures of the "VIN" from their personal cars to use at DMV, but I have not supplied those here.  My advise is, join these groups and make friends, I did and the people here help tremendously.

 

-Ben Bruce aka First Born, member of AACA since 2008, remembered a post with pictures of the location of the "VIN" from a couple of '50 Buicks in the junkyard.  Before I go any further, I put VIN in parentheis because the number in your door jam or stamped on your frame in not a VIN.  VINs weren't officially established until 1968, and the 17 digit VIN all cars have now, came about circa 1981.  What is on our '50 Buicks and most antique cars is what is most commonly refered to as a Chassis Serial Numbe, from here forward, referenced as CSNe.  From what I have gleaned so far, these numbers we're for registration, but more for the manufaturer and dealerships to track and more importantly, determine when in the model year run the car was built.  Out of all of this so far, the most important part of what has been said so far, is the attachment method of these CSN's.  

 

-As I mentioned previously, Ben Bruce told me of this post in the AACA forums with pictures of the CSN on the frames of 1950 Buicks.  Here are the pictures  Page 0-3, second paragraph from the bottom of the page says: "The car serial number is on a plate attatched to the body on the left front door hinge pillar and is also stamped on the left frame side rail near brake master cylinder.".  This is the only reference in the service manual I can find.  No mention of how the plate is attatched, and the stated location of the stamped number on the frame is error.  From what I understand, this was the location for the 1949 Buicks, and, as we've all heard, service and sales information is done months before actual production, so some information is prototype information.  If you have an owners manual, there is an illustration of the location of the tag in the door jam, but, it isn't detailed enough to show the attatchment method.  The location of the stamping on the frame is 2" aft of the radiator support on the upper surface of the the left, driver's side, frame side rail.  This stamping is most easily viewed with the left side of the hood open and standing in front of the car.  The left ventilation tube blocks your view from the side.  If only parts of the number are visible, use a small wire brush and something like PB Blaster to remove dirt, grease and rust.  As I mentioned previously, the stamping is fine and not very deep, so proceed cautiosly.  If you resort to sandpaper, use very fine grit and be patient.  The Buick Heritatge Club states this as the location, they also say that the number can be stamped on the crossmember, but I don't have an illustration of that at this time.  Please note that the stampings are very fine and easily sanded away.  Interestingly, the stamping in the picture of the painted frame rail is in the same location, but a much more robust stamping.  The stamped number on the frame should match the plate that is screwed on in the left door jam.  THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IN THIS POST!  The stamped CSN will go further to validate the tag in the door jam than any other information that you can provide.

 

-During my visit to the Delaware State Police ATU, I asked the officer how I should have went about registering my car.  He told me, to tell anyone registering an old car with tag that is screwed on, to come to the ATU first and have the car verified, then, to proceede with the safety inspection and registration process as with any other car.  

 

To review:

 

-Join the AACA and or the Buick Club of America

 

_Reach out to members to help you compile your visual documentation to support the fact that these CSNs were attatched with round head Phillips screws from the factory.  (Note:  the different divisions at GM in those days had no consistency with each other in those days.  Every division attatched CSNs in their own way.  Also, images on the internet are almost nonexistent.)

 

_Locate the stamped CSN on your frame.

 

_Check on Delaware DMV's website for times and dates when the ATU will be at your county's DMV

 

-Don't be a know-it-all, but don't be afraid to say something to help.  In my case, the 1 on the frame stamping was very faint, I called out from the driver's seat that fact, and the inspector responded, "Oh yeah, now I see it.", meaning, he may have thought the number was incomplete had I not said something.

 

-Once the ATU officer is satisfied, he will provide you with a document with an embossed seal, verifying that your car has been verified by the ATU, and, it's the first thing that will be requested by the inspector in the safety inspection lane, even though he probably watched your car go through the ATU line.

 

It occured to me while posting this, that a lot of us buy cars that are a long way from being road ready, and will be spending considerable sums of money before they are ready for a safety inspection.  In this case, in the State of Delaware at least, you might want to consider obtaining a "B" title.  A "B" title shows ownership with the car being registered for road use.  In this case, you still would need to provide the tag and the frame number stamping, get a title for ownership, but be able to forego the safety inspection.

 

One last thing, the title of this post is so long, because I was trying to use all of the words someone might use to locate this informaion.

 

 

 

 

[Century Eight]

Fantastic post, Herb.

 

[old-tank]

My 55's use the engine number for registration which you need to watch for when changing engine blocks (have the replacement and replaced engines inspected by a state (TX) officer.  The frame stamping which matches the A-pillar plate spot welded attachment is on top of the rear frame rail passenger side that can only be read with the quarter panel removed .

[avgwarhawk]

Glad that worked out for you! 

 

[BuickSearcher]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:47 AM, Sonomatic said:

Folks with other makes of cars may find this post helpful, but I posted it here because the pictures are specific to 1950 Buicks.

 

-Bought my Buick in October 2022.  After the normal, needs brakes, needs this and that for vehicle safety inspection, I made the mistake of taking my antique car to the normal inspecion lanes.  My car had current Maryland registration when I bought it.  When the inspector saw that the "VIN" chassis serial number tag was attatched with screws, he went and retrieved his supervisor, who proclaimed my "VIN" tag was upsidedown and installed with screws.  He told the inspector to refer me to the ATU, and that's where this begins.

 

ATU stands for Auto Theft Unit, admistered in my state, by the Delaware State Police.  After my initial panic that the car was stolen and that I had already spent a considerable some to make it road worthy, I realized that the issue was with the "VIN" tag being attatched with screws, which sends gives any Motor Vehicle type the "vapors".  

 

I reached out to Ben Bruce aka First Born and this sight, Phil Taylor and Jeff Schindler over at the Buick Club of America.  Together, we gathered up these images of "VIN" plates, most are from original, never touched cars.  The pictures of the body tags are included to illustrate the use of the same Phillips screws used by Buick to attatch both tags.  Last "VIN" tag is mine, obviously NOT installed upsidedown, but we'll revisit this shortly. The strategy here is to have as much documentation as possible to overwhelm the DMV with information to support your case.  My felllow '50 Buick owners provided me with pictures of the "VIN" from their personal cars to use at DMV, but I have not supplied those here.  My advise is, join these groups and make friends, I did and the people here help tremendously.

 

-Ben Bruce aka First Born, member of AACA since 2008, remembered a post with pictures of the location of the "VIN" from a couple of '50 Buicks in the junkyard.  Before I go any further, I put VIN in parentheis because the number in your door jam or stamped on your frame in not a VIN.  VINs weren't officially established until 1968, and the 17 digit VIN all cars have now, came about circa 1981.  What is on our '50 Buicks and most antique cars is what is most commonly refered to as a Chassis Serial Numbe, from here forward, referenced as CSNe.  From what I have gleaned so far, these numbers we're for registration, but more for the manufaturer and dealerships to track and more importantly, determine when in the model year run the car was built.  Out of all of this so far, the most important part of what has been said so far, is the attachment method of these CSN's.  

 

-As I mentioned previously, Ben Bruce told me of this post in the AACA forums with pictures of the CSN on the frames of 1950 Buicks.  Here are the pictures  Page 0-3, second paragraph from the bottom of the page says: "The car serial number is on a plate attatched to the body on the left front door hinge pillar and is also stamped on the left frame side rail near brake master cylinder.".  This is the only reference in the service manual I can find.  No mention of how the plate is attatched, and the stated location of the stamped number on the frame is error.  From what I understand, this was the location for the 1949 Buicks, and, as we've all heard, service and sales information is done months before actual production, so some information is prototype information.  If you have an owners manual, there is an illustration of the location of the tag in the door jam, but, it isn't detailed enough to show the attatchment method.  The location of the stamping on the frame is 2" aft of the radiator support on the upper surface of the the left, driver's side, frame side rail.  This stamping is most easily viewed with the left side of the hood open and standing in front of the car.  The left ventilation tube blocks your view from the side.  If only parts of the number are visible, use a small wire brush and something like PB Blaster to remove dirt, grease and rust.  As I mentioned previously, the stamping is fine and not very deep, so proceed cautiosly.  If you resort to sandpaper, use very fine grit and be patient.  The Buick Heritatge Club states this as the location, they also say that the number can be stamped on the crossmember, but I don't have an illustration of that at this time.  Please note that the stampings are very fine and easily sanded away.  Interestingly, the stamping in the picture of the painted frame rail is in the same location, but a much more robust stamping.  The stamped number on the frame should match the plate that is screwed on in the left door jam.  THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION IN THIS POST!  The stamped CSN will go further to validate the tag in the door jam than any other information that you can provide.

 

-During my visit to the Delaware State Police ATU, I asked the officer how I should have went about registering my car.  He told me, to tell anyone registering an old car with tag that is screwed on, to come to the ATU first and have the car verified, then, to proceede with the safety inspection and registration process as with any other car.  

 

To review:

 

-Join the AACA and or the Buick Club of America

 

_Reach out to members to help you compile your visual documentation to support the fact that these CSNs were attatched with round head Phillips screws from the factory.  (Note:  the different divisions at GM in those days had no consistency with each other in those days.  Every division attatched CSNs in their own way.  Also, images on the internet are almost nonexistent.)

 

_Locate the stamped CSN on your frame.

 

_Check on Delaware DMV's website for times and dates when the ATU will be at your county's DMV

 

-Don't be a know-it-all, but don't be afraid to say something to help.  In my case, the 1 on the frame stamping was very faint, I called out from the driver's seat that fact, and the inspector responded, "Oh yeah, now I see it.", meaning, he may have thought the number was incomplete had I not said something.

 

-Once the ATU officer is satisfied, he will provide you with a document with an embossed seal, verifying that your car has been verified by the ATU, and, it's the first thing that will be requested by the inspector in the safety inspection lane, even though he probably watched your car go through the ATU line.

 

It occured to me while posting this, that a lot of us buy cars that are a long way from being road ready, and will be spending considerable sums of money before they are ready for a safety inspection.  In this case, in the State of Delaware at least, you might want to consider obtaining a "B" title.  A "B" title shows ownership with the car being registered for road use.  In this case, you still would need to provide the tag and the frame number stamping, get a title for ownership, but be able to forego the safety inspection.

 

One last thing, the title of this post is so long, because I was trying to use all of the words someone might use to locate this informaion.

 

 

 

 

Great details.  Thank you so much.  I'm in contact with an archivist from GM who focuses on Buick models, so it should all come together.  

[JanZverina]

Excellent initial post and thread! Thanks for reviving it, BuickSearcher. As a regular viewer of Bring A Trailer (BaT) online auctions, VIN attachment methods are a constant subject, especially regarding older vehicles. And there are too many of instances of let's just say "disingenuous" information provided by some sellers.

 

[Buick Bruce]

I've been working on titles and chassis ID plates for Buicks that have been stored for years and ran across this thread. I'm considering selling a couple  cars and decided it was time to order a couple data plates that are missing. And after going through the above info, I'm worried that I screwed up (round head phillips, that is).

There was a guy that advertised for years in the Buick Bugle that did what appeared to be accurate reproduction data plates. I talked with him a few years ago and he said he could even help with an Ionia cowl data plate.

But I've been unable to locate his contact info. Anyone know if this service is stills available?

[1939_Buick]

Referring to AG Backeast (datatags.com) of Grand Junction CO?

My understanding he retired and sold the business about ~2021. But the new owner does not seem to have carried it on

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/does-anyone-know-if-ag-backeast-is-still-making-tags.482635/

https://website.informer.com/datatags.com

 

Edit

Found another supplier

https://dataplates4u.com/buick/

 

Where the chassis number is used as VIN is a difference between forgery (with intent to illegally deceive) and  replacement in a restoration. 

Buick data plates where punched out - impressed from the back with a die.. Have seen data plates that are etched out

 

Edited September 5 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, Buick Bruce said:

I've been working on titles and chassis ID plates for Buicks that have been stored for years and ran across this thread. I'm considering selling a couple  cars and decided it was time to order a couple data plates that are missing. And after going through the above info, I'm worried that I screwed up (round head phillips, that is).

There was a guy that advertised for years in the Buick Bugle that did what appeared to be accurate reproduction data plates. I talked with him a few years ago and he said he could even help with an Ionia cowl data plate.

But I've been unable to locate his contact info. Anyone know if this service is stills available?

 Those round Phillips head screws are correct for 1950.   For that serial number plate as well as the Fisher Data plate.  That way on mine and another I owned a few years back.  As well as all I have seen in wrecking yards.

  The data plate mounts atop the cowl, passenger side.

 

  Ben

Edited September 5 by Ben Bruce aka First Born (see edit history)