What are the Best Looking Prewar FOUR-DOOR Sedans? Custom and Production.

[coachJC]

1933 Studebaker President Speedway

Edited May 18, 2023 by coachJC (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Talk about resale red. 

[1937hd45]

29 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Talk about resale red. 

Chief in gold leaf on the door is missing. 

[Walt G]

I love that Studebaker but how unfortunate it has to be in that red  color. Incredible styling of the car gets totally lost .

the whole flow of the design is lost.

[alsancle]

16 hours ago, George K said:

Interesting comparison.

 

I don't know of any car in that era that sat lower than a Ruxton.

[Paul Dobbin]

52 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Talk about resale red. 

   Yes, and there are 3 other red cars in the background!

[Walt G]

No one has commented on the above period photo of the Hispano Suiza about the center mounted door handles. A very unusual feature , also the height of the windshield. Compare the height of the hood ornament/mascot to the height of the windshield.  Very small hinges holding massive doors. I need to give a talk on some unique cars design and styling .

[MarkV]

There is ‘pre war’ than ‘pre pre war’ and ‘pre pre pre war’

 

for me 1937-1941 is pre war with enclosed vehicles no wood spokes, juice brakes, radios and lights. 
 

as far as a 4 door everyday car I am partial to my 1940 Champion currently undergoing restoration it small, a regular working persons car and has pretty decent interior space! 

[58L-Y8]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

No one has commented on the above period photo of the Hispano Suiza about the center mounted door handles. A very unusual feature , also the height of the windshield. Compare the height of the hood ornament/mascot to the height of the windshield.  Very small hinges holding massive doors. I need to give a talk on some unique cars design and styling .

Sorry Walt, I didn't sign on until late afternoon...but yes, that Hispano-Suiza by Marchand can't go unremarked.  Custom designers and coachbuilders had the latitude to demonstrate how good proportions and integrated details could benefit the overall aesthetic appeal of a car.   This Hispano-Suiza by Marchand demonstrates how, when the main body mass began at the front axle/radiator plane, the rear body mass should end as near the rear axle plane as possible for the best proportions.   The trunk, whether fully integrated or separate as it appears here, is subordinate to the main mass.    This was another step toward the fully integrated 3-box sedan configuration. 

They also had the latitude to 'push the envelop" on features such as the low windshield height no production body maker would have had the nerve to try.   The full-length, over-the-cowl hood was embraced by industry by 1933, to not have it would have been retrograde.  The body sides skirted over the frame rails were still to become the norm.  Even the smooth wheel disk covers accented by a simple circular detail add to the total appeal,

Interestly enough, the double-entry hinges for the B-pillar had to be exposed whereas those for the cowl and rear quarters are concealed.  Checking the other L & M and Brunn double-entry bodied cars, Duesenberg J, Packard Deluxe Eight 745 and Lincoln KB there is no consistency on the hinges.

Thanks for posting this great image, Walt, hope the car survives though that's a lot to hope for.
 

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:30 AM, alsancle said:

Great Colors!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, 34LaSalleClubSedan said:

Great Colors!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mismatched spoke colors and one other minor issue spoiling things.

[34LaSalleClubSedan]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

 

Mismatched spoke colors and one other minor issue spoiling things.

Maybe 6 minor issues

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

I'm partial to Buicks, so this is my answer to the question.

In the order of the photos.

1940 Buick Brunn "Townmaster".

1941 Buick Limited Brunn Bodied Brougham Town Car.

1941 Buick Limited 90-L

[prewarnut]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

  This Hispano-Suiza by Marchand demonstrates how, when the main body mass began at the front axle/radiator plane, the rear body mass should end as near the rear axle plane as possible for the best proportions.  
 

   I agree. Unfortunately I never felt this worked out for the W21 Mercedes.

From Wikipedia:

 

[Aussi John 1]

1935 Studebaker Landcruiser.

[Graham Man]

Going back in time first...

 

1913 ALCO

 

 

Then going back to 1929 New York Auto Show Car 1929 837 Graham-Paige LeBaron Aluminum Bodied

 

[George K]

7 hours ago, Walt G said:

No one has commented on the above period photo of the Hispano Suiza about the center mounted door handles. A very unusual feature , also the height of the windshield. Compare the height of the hood ornament/mascot to the height of the windshield.  Very small hinges holding massive doors. I need to give a talk on some unique cars design and styling .

The hinges are ball type. A ball is captive between the two halves sockets with a bolt through the center. Very French. If you zoom in on the attached Bugatti photo you’ll see the best photo I could find showing this type of hinge. In the late 1980’s I found a French firm who had the tooling for the hood hinge to Bugatti. They still cataloged this type of ball hinges for use on commercial vehicles.

[Walt G]

George K, thanks for the additional information on the hinges - this was my hope/intent to see others viewing here add to the history/content to better appreciate and understand what was going on in an era where nothing was designed or generated by a computer - all slide rules!

GREAT.

Walt

[TAKerry]

12 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Mismatched spoke colors and one other minor issue spoiling things.

Would it start with a W?  

[8E45E]

16 hours ago, Walt G said:

No one has commented on the above period photo of the Hispano Suiza about the center mounted door handles. A very unusual feature , also the height of the windshield. Compare the height of the hood ornament/mascot to the height of the windshield.  Very small hinges holding massive doors. I need to give a talk on some unique cars design and styling .

While interesting, the location of those exterior door handles are very impractical; the front doors especially.  One needs long arms for swing room to clear the opening doors, and really mind their shins with the protruding lower edge of the front doors.   Reminds me of the GM U-series 'Dustbuster' mini-vans with the extreme setback B-pillars which have warning labels on them to watch one's head as they open the door.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

12 hours ago, prewarnut said:

   I agree. Unfortunately I never felt this worked out for the W21 Mercedes.

From Wikipedia:

 

prewarnut:  You make a good point about another important proportional relationship: that of the hood/front-of-the-cowl mass compared to the main passenger compartment mass.  In the case of the W21 Mercedes-Benz, the latter dominates which is much less aesthetically pleasing.

[alsancle]

15 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

prewarnut:  You make a good point about another important proportional relationship: that of the hood/front-of-the-cowl mass compared to the main passenger compartment mass.  In the case of the W21 Mercedes-Benz, the latter dominates which is much less aesthetically pleasing.

 

Simple rule Steve!  I can tell you 90% of the time how attractive a car is based on how long the hood is and how high the windshield is.   Isn't full proof but usually works.

[Walt G]

Craig,

Impractical styling or bold colors is what brings customers into the showroom, or draws a crowd at a show. My aunt worked for a Cadillac dealer back in the early 1970s - they were on a main highway at a traffic light and always had a red convertible in the showroom as a center piece. People would come in to see it , but of course if they did buy a car it usually was a 4 door sedan - top didn't have to go down or up, then a boot to cover it in lowered position fitted, bold color didn't usually work well when 99% of the time you didn't want to attract attention etc.

I had an interesting conversation with designer Bill Mitchell at the NY Auto Show years ago when he was retiring (and G.M. brought in all his styling experimental cars from the Y job on up) about that . It was interesting as only 3 minutes into the conversation he said to me " you studied art didn't you" , I told him I taught art , owned and restored my pre war cars and we had a great time talking about classic car ( pre WWII) styling. 

WG

Edited May 19, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Very rarely do you ever see a "practical" concept car.   They were, and usually are the 'attention getters' at auto shows.  

 

As a general rule, convertibles only ever held 7% of the market in the 1960's, but the auto manufacturers usually encouraged their dealers, especially the big city dealers to have at least one convertible in stock at all times.

 

I do know European coachbuilders did catalog unusual items/features that truly were impractical in use, but either buyers put up with it for the sake of ostentatiousness, or a chauffeur did the work for them.

 

Craig

[prewarnut]

This has it all: resale red, convertible and Milanese flair. It is for sale too (no affiliation). I would drive the stink out of it.

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, prewarnut said:

This has it all: resale red, convertible and Milanese flair. It is for sale too (no affiliation). I would drive the stink out of it.

 

 

 

I agree,  great car!  But I wonder how long it has been since "resale red" actually helped sell a car?

[George K]

16 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

 

I agree,  great car!  But I wonder how long it has been since "resale red" actually helped sell a car?

Google gold chain Ferrari owners. I believe that’s the last bastion known.

[Paul Dobbin]

5 hours ago, prewarnut said:

This has it all: resale red, convertible and Milanese flair. It is for sale too (no affiliation). I would drive the stink out of it.

 

 

5 hours ago, prewarnut said:

This has it all: resale red, convertible and Milanese flair. It is for sale too (no affiliation). I would drive the stink out of it.

 

  To bad it smells bad, but it's a cool looking touring car.   I would have to paint the hood red too.   My 15 Model T had a aluminum hood, but I

  painted it too.

[Walt G]

I totally agree with Paul. The hood needs to be painted, bare metal it completely breaks the flow of the whole design /lines of the car

The great fender line/flow, and curves to the bottom of the doors is thrown off by a box shape view of the hood in profile - huh?

To see the difference hold your hand over the hood in the photo to block that out and then look at the rest of the car to see what I refer to.

[1937hd45]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:47 PM, George K said:

The hinges are ball type. A ball is captive between the two halves sockets with a bolt through the center. Very French. If you zoom in on the attached Bugatti photo you’ll see the best photo I could find showing this type of hinge. In the late 1980’s I found a French firm who had the tooling for the hood hinge to Bugatti. They still cataloged this type of ball hinges for use on commercial vehicles.

The MG-TC used a hinge like that, guess the Pre WWII models did too. Always liked that body style on the Bugatti. Bob 

Edited May 21, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

 

  To bad it smells bad, but it's a cool looking touring car.   I would have to paint the hood red too.   My 15 Model T had a aluminum hood, but I

  painted it too.

Wheel size looks too small, and the top is odd looking.

[prewarnut]

....top may be missing a bow. Fenders ride high on the early '20s ones. Here's all red if partial red isn't enough.😁

(photo from Dyler.com)

 

[George K]

By suggestion from A.J.

[CChinn]

This 1929 Pierce Arrow was shown at an AACA NC Region Chapter meet in Cary, NC yesterday. It was my favorite out of 80+ cars

[58L-Y8]

On 5/20/2023 at 8:43 PM, George K said:

By suggestion from A.J.

Demands a better look:

[George K]

[George K]

[George K]

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, George K said:

 

George,  I LOVE the C25 Voisin.   Thank you for posting that.   Sleeve Valve engine just like the Stearns.  Although the Knight patent must have expired because it wasn't called a Voisin-Knight.

[George K]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

George,  I LOVE the C25 Voisin.   Thank you for posting that.   Sleeve Valve engine just like the Stearns.  Although the Knight patent must have expired because it wasn't called a Voisin-Knight.

You and Voisin are two peas in a pod. Both are devotee’s of “freak” engines. I have a thing about two stroke engines so I understand.