63-64 Cast Wheel Covers & SD Turbines

[OldsDr]

Hi All,

I am a diehard Toronado, 442, Vette, SS Impala guy with a huge soft spot for the 63-70 Riviera's. 66 GS is my fav in Black or Plum please. Current ride is a fully restored 68 442 and small block Vette roadster. Anyone know of a lower mile desert dry black or plum 66 Riv for sale please pass along the contact info.

 

I collect unique hubcaps. The 63-64 Riviera cast covers intrigued me. So I bought an NOS 63 cap.

I cant image all the damage the tire jockeys did to these throughout the years trying to pry them off like a conventional cap.  These caps are so cool. Nothing like the 60s as far as "car art" right down to the effort Detroit put into style down to the hubcaps.

 

Cast Cap & SD Turbine cap Questions:

1. Cast cap only used on 63, 64, 65 right? (with diff center medallions 64-65 had black R).

2. The SD turbine caps inaugural year is 1966 or 65. I see some 65s with them, possibly early dealer literature. I think the 66s only have the 2 bar spinner. 67 up round center. Same exact rim and fin casting.

3. Are 63-65s cast aluminum or magnesium?

4. What's the proper way to remove the center to not damage the spinner or casting?

5. What is recommended to polish the bare cast on the "spokes" and outer rim on the cast covers? Looks like a clear coat on the back side of the one I have??

6. Where can I source the correct bolts that secure it to the rim?

7. Any idea what the option RPO code is for these cast caps. (Olds 98s, 88s had N93s which are similar.  Buick SD is the Super Deluxe turbine wheel cover AKA P01 or P02 in Vette speak. I have both in my collection/obsession.

Are there two styles of the SD? The 68 Vette had a P01 where the turbine fins were rounded where they terminate under the center cap. Then 69-74 the area is squared and flush with the cap. Did the early 66-68 Buick SD do the same thing? I can dig out a picture. Its very subtle. 68 P01s are rare.

TX,

Steve

[RivNut]

A couple of things to consider. Besides the 64 spinner having a different center cap ( 63 tri-shield which was silver and black rather than red/white/blue like other full sized Buicks) the 64 cast aluminum cover had the turbine inserts painted a dark charcoal/black.  Buick Rivieras for 63 and 64 came with two width wheels. The 5.5” was standard; the 6” wheel came when the oversized tire (7.60 x 15”) was ordered. To adjust for the wheel width, the studs that were used to bolt the cast cover to the wheel cane in two lengths. The difference was in length of the shoulder on the stud. The accompanying illustration should help.

 

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, OldsDr said:

Hi All,

I am a diehard Toronado, 442, Vette, SS Impala guy with a huge soft spot for the 63-70 Riviera's. 66 GS is my fav in Black or Plum please. Current ride is a fully restored 68 442 and small block Vette roadster. Anyone know of a lower mile desert dry black or plum 66 Riv for sale please pass along the contact info.

 

I collect unique hubcaps. The 63-64 Riviera cast covers intrigued me. So I bought an NOS 63 cap.

I cant image all the damage the tire jockeys did to these throughout the years trying to pry them off like a conventional cap.  These caps are so cool. Nothing like the 60s as far as "car art" right down to the effort Detroit put into style down to the hubcaps.

 

Cast Cap & SD Turbine cap Questions:

1. Cast cap only used on 63, 64, 65 right? (with diff center medallions 64-65 had black R).

2. The SD turbine caps inaugural year is 1966 or 65. I see some 65s with them, possibly early dealer literature. I think the 66s only have the 2 bar spinner. 67 up round center. Same exact rim and fin casting.

3. Are 63-65s cast aluminum or magnesium?

4. What's the proper way to remove the center to not damage the spinner or casting?

5. What is recommended to polish the bare cast on the "spokes" and outer rim on the cast covers? Looks like a clear coat on the back side of the one I have??

6. Where can I source the correct bolts that secure it to the rim?

7. Any idea what the option RPO code is for these cast caps. (Olds 98s, 88s had N93s which are similar.  Buick SD is the Super Deluxe turbine wheel cover AKA P01 or P02 in Vette speak. I have both in my collection/obsession.

Are there two styles of the SD? The 68 Vette had a P01 where the turbine fins were rounded where they terminate under the center cap. Then 69-74 the area is squared and flush with the cap. Did the early 66-68 Buick SD do the same thing? I can dig out a picture. Its very subtle. 68 P01s are rare.

TX,

Steve

Steve, those are outstanding. Check the 64. Not NOS, just cleaned up and vanes and webs powder coated.

[RivNut]

Here are a couple picture of the two different studs used to attach the cast covers to the steel wheel.  The one with the longer  shoulder is for the 6" wheel.

[OldsDr]

Thanks for the info guys!

Are the laced wires factory issue??

Outstanding examples.

Whats the preferred method of cap removal to access the lug nuts?

 

Had my eye on this one. Its Midnight blue not black.

[OldsDr]

Any sources for these studs?

[RivNut]

No source for the OE studs. But the threads are the same on both ends. A section on of all-thread cut to the correct length can be used as a stud.  A 1/8” thick washer will work for the 5.5”:wheels.  A section of tubing cut to 5/8” long and slipped over the all-thread will work for the 6” wheels.  Serrated nuts can be found at any hardware store.

[OldsDr]

Good idea. Now just need the car to go along with the wheel cover...lol

[RivNut]

The studs needed are 5/6" x 18 TPI.  Rather than cutting up some tubing, you can purchase "standoff bushings" 5/16 x 5/8 x 5/8 ( id, od, length) or 5/16 x 5/8 x 1/8 off Amazon depending on what you need.   Lowes and Home Depot have the 5/16' by 18 TPI all-thread and serrated nuts.  Happy Hunting. 

 

Ed

Edited January 3, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

Steve, your signature block, gold engine = Oldsmobile. That cold air induction, a rare option? Toronado?

Very Nice!

[rocketraider]

68-9 Olds Cutlass with W31 performance option.

 

Did all Riviera wheels have holes for those diecast cap mounting studs? The 64-65 Olds N93 required a special wheel which is difficult to find, though nearly 60 years later the caps themselves are still fairly common.

[RivNut]

All 15” Buick wheels from that era have those 4 holes.  On the base model LeSabre, those holes had clips pressed into them for the poverty caps. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[OldsDr]

I know off-topic but I figured Id spew some Olds...

For the 68-69 model years Olds outside air induction, (OAI) option codes were W30 (68 & 69), W32(1969 only) Bronze engine 400 cid, only available with the W29 442 package.

The W31 OAI was technically called Ram Rod 350(my avatar) in 68 then a W31 in 1969 was only available on the F85/Cutlass/Cutlass S lineup as a 350 cid Gold engine.

The W34 Toronado of 1968, the first year for the 455, had a special air cleaner(68 only) camshaft heads etc that drew in cold air from behind the drives side fender. 124 made in 68 the rarest of the 68-70 run.

 

W30 existed in 66 & 67, 68-69, and 70-72 and beyond as appearance packages only.

W31 died after 1970

W32 lived on as the SX option code 70 - 71 (basically a 455 in a Cutlass).

 

There is way more to navigating the Olds ROP codes but this is at a high level on the W machines.

 

Imagine if the 66 GS dual quad 425 Riviera had an OAI option. What would that look like? Under the bumper or on the hood??? Cool.

[Turbinator]

22 hours ago, OldsDr said:

Any sources for these studs?

I have the studs you asked about. There is a better way to put new replacement studs in the turbines if do not have originals.

Get 5/16”x 18 bolt 1 1/2”long. Put the bolt in the turbine boss. Zip the head off the bolt. Use chamfering tool to clean up the bolt. Leave the bolt this length for a 6” wheel. put on the ivory colored spacer shown on the bolt.

For the 5 1/2” wheel a small flat washer is just dandy for the stud. If you have to over do it you can take off 1/8” off the 1 1/2” bolt for the 5 1/2” wheel. What you want is a fastener that will hold the wheelcover on the wheel. The wheelcovers, as I’ve been told, were balanced at the factory. Leave the little weights alone that are clamped on the inside of the turbine.

Thats all folks.

Turbinator

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

Trst

[RivNut]

That nylon washer shown looks like it will set the cover out farther than the OE shank washer.  One long piece of all-thread is probably less expensive than 16 bolts.  😁

[OldsDr]

Excellent info thanks guys!

[1965rivgs]

13 hours ago, OldsDr said:

Excellent info thanks guys!

Dr Olds,

 

  I`m looking for N93 wheels, the studs which hold the wheelcovers to the wheels, and excellent `64 Starfire centers. I have `65 centers for trade if that is an attractive option.

 

Tom Mooney

[OldsDr]

Tom,

N93s in Olds speak are, as you know, hard to find in good shape. Type in N93 Oldsmobile hubcap on eBay. I see centers and a full set though rough. No clue how these affix to the rims. You can see some sort of stud in the pics.

 

Does anyone know what the RPO code on the 63-65 Buick Cast/Stainless Popoff centers is?

[RivNut]

Out of curiosity, I Googled the N93 wheel cover.  I found this picture of the wheel that’s needed for the N93 cover.  There are thee additional holes through which a T bolt is used to attach the cover to the wheel.

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

2 hours ago, OldsDr said:

Tom,

N93s in Olds speak are, as you know, hard to find in good shape. Type in N93 Oldsmobile hubcap on eBay. I see centers and a full set though rough. No clue how these affix to the rims. You can see some sort of stud in the pics.

 

Does anyone know what the RPO code on the 63-65 Buick Cast/Stainless Popoff centers is?

  They are attached by the studs which fill some of the holes in your picture

Tom

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

You don't want much, do you?🙃

 

64-65 use the same wheel and wheelcover. 64 Starfire and Jetstar I use the spinner center with horizontal Rocket. 64 Super 88 and Ninety Eight use a dished center with horizontal Rocket. All 1965 use the spinner with vertical Rocket.

 

These were NA for Jetstar 88 as they had 4-3/4" bolt circle wheels and brake drums. My 1964 Olds Product Selling Information manual does not indicate they were available for Dynamic 88 either, only Super, Ninety Eight, Starfire and J1.

 

After about 15 years trying to find the special wheels, I said the hell with them and realized my Starfires look very nice with their wire wheelcovers or diecast three-bar spinners.

  I am aware of all the information you posted, hence, my request for parts and not information. Can you help with the parts? 

Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

If anyone is interested, I have three really nice (possibly NOS) 14” GM wire spoke wheel covers. I went to an auction a couple of years ago where I bought some Riviera parts.  I thought these wire spoked wheel covers were 15”.  I think that they’ve never been mounted.  They’ve also never had center emblems attached.  If you know of anyone who’d be interested, let me know.  I don’t want much for them. I’d just like to have the space on my shelf. 
 

Ed

[rocketraider]

3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

  I am aware of all the information you posted, hence, my request for parts and not information. Can you help with the parts? 

Tom Mooney

Not at the quality level you're seeking.

[RivNut]

@1965rivgs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125618474020
 

On eBay currently

 

[OldsDr]

7 hours ago, RivNut said:

Out of curiosity, I Googled the N93 wheel cover.  I found this picture of the wheel that’s needed for the N93 cover.  There are thee additional holes through which a T bolt is used to attach the cover to the wheel.

 

Good find Ed. These are very hard to find.

Steve

[OldsDr]

9 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

Dr Olds,

 

  I`m looking for N93 wheels, the studs which hold the wheelcovers to the wheels, and excellent `64 Starfire centers. I have `65 centers for trade if that is an attractive option.

 

Tom Mooney

Tom,

I cant help with parts but I can guide you to classicolfdsmobile.com. Join up. Free. They have a classified section as well. Your not going to find better source for Olds info. Not much testosterone on this site unlike most others. We police it well.

Steve

[rocketraider]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

@1965rivgs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125618474020
 

On eBay currently

 

1965.

 

Though I have realized I know really little about these and other full-size Olds specialty wheels, and being an Oldsmobile guy I have no place here. I wish you all good fortune with your Rivieras.

[OldsDr]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:42 PM, rocketraider said:

1965.

 

Though I have realized I know really little about these and other full-size Olds specialty wheels, and being an Oldsmobile guy I have no place here. I wish you all good fortune with your Riviera's.

Nonsense Glenn, Your welcome here. After all the Riviera is the brother to the Toronado. 

Steve

Edited February 6, 2023 by OldsDr (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

13 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Not at the quality level you're seeking.

Only a little humor…. Are you referencing the quality level before they were made at the factory.?

I get the same ration of grief from customers that want their 63/63 cast aluminum wheel covers as bright as chrome. The original cast aluminum I’ve seen in photos were not mirror reflection. All in fun.

Turbinator 

[1965rivgs]

10 hours ago, OldsDr said:

Tom,

I cant help with parts but I can guide you to classicolfdsmobile.com. Join up. Free. They have a classified section as well. Your not going to find better source for Olds info. Not much testosterone on this site unlike most others. We police it well.

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is helpful.

Tom

[dr914]

they were certainly not bright from the factory, I have several nos covers I keep on display, but the turbines DO polish up nicely and still look tasteful. Great for a concours or show car

[Turbinator]

8 hours ago, dr914 said:

they were certainly not bright from the factory, I have several nos covers I keep on display, but the turbines DO polish up nicely and still look tasteful. Great for a concours or show car

You are quite 100% correct.This is the set I had on my Riv when I entered the Antique Automobile Club of America Hershey meet this past October. Some on my customers would say this set that helped the  car win a Junior prize are not shiny enough. Fortunately, I can say with ease I do not have anything for you. Find the Turbines elsewhere.

Tubinator

[OldsDr]

3 hours ago, Turbinator said:

You are quite 100% correct.This is the set I had on my Riv when I entered the Antique Automobile Club of America Hershey meet this past October. Some on my customers would say this set that helped the  car win a Junior prize are not shiny enough. Fortunately, I can say with ease I do not have anything for you. Find the Turbines elsewhere.

Tubinator

That was my goal as well when I asked what polish/methods to use. I just need to knock off shelf wear and preserve the real patina. This cast NOS 63 I just bought is very nice.

I just restored a set of 65 & 66 Impala SS/Caprice spinner caps that came out looking like new. The medallions are reproduced by Trim Parts. They do have some Buick centers. With minimal buffing/rouge these things look like NOS.

I prefer things not over restored. When I do a car I try to achieve that or just a skosh better. Not to shiny  represents something you can drive a little bit verse trailer. Trailer queens have their place but not in my shop. My current fun vehicle can see 4-5-600 miles annually, thou I have trailered to farther away events for my piece of mind.

[Turbinator]

14 hours ago, OldsDr said:

My current fun vehicle can see 4-5-600 miles annually, thou I have trailered to farther away events for my piece of mind.

I put in about 3-4K a year on my driver. I meant for the car to be a reliable driver. Upkeep detailing keeps me on my toes. I could sit around and look at the car and enjoy the car a lot. When I drive the 63 Riv I get a lot of compliments. I say thank you and chat for a bit with an interested passer by.

 

im thinking about getting another vintage car in good running condition and alternate daily driving between the 63 Riv and a strong running Cadillac. We will see.

Turbinator

[telriv]

Where you going to put it Bob???

 

Tom T.

[Turbinator]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:57 PM, telriv said:

Where you going to put it Bob???

 

Tom T.

Here is what I bought. There is a space open in the garage at the house. Nothing stopping me from throwing out junk at the carriage house to make room.

 

[gungeey]

4 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Here is what I bought. There is a space open in the garage at the house. Nothing stopping me from throwing out junk at the carriage house to make room.

 

Nice Color combo Bob

 

Is that a 327 4-Speed?

[Turbinator]

5 minutes ago, gungeey said:

that a 327 4-Speed?

Yes. The inspector along with an honest forthright seller all the visible shortcomings were addressed. None of the things that needed attention were show stoppers. I’ll fix them when I can get the help.

The owner asked a premium, the inspector had a much lower value estimate. The seller said I’ll sell the car for what I paid. I had set aside a lot more then the seller wanted so I we agreed. A little homework in reading the excise tax rules for car sales in Maryland saved a measurable amount. I liked the car a lot and was tired of looking for the past number of years so I bought the car. The knowledgeable inspector said this car is original. The inspector went on to say DO NOT CHANGE even the valve stem caps. I think I’m in total agreement.

[Pat Curran]

5 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Here is what I bought. There is a space open in the garage at the house. Nothing stopping me from throwing out junk at the carriage house to make room.

 

Hey Bob, maybe you can start a second side business by restoring 1964 SS wheel covers?

Of all the years of SS wheel covers, 1964 is the only year where the cover was widened to cover the wheel bead, hence the propensity for curb rash.  Nice car!

Edited February 5, 2023 by Pat Curran
Update content (see edit history)