Kelsey demountable rim for 1915 Cadillac type 51

[Steven G]

I have mounted tire and rim to fellow tightened lugs and have 1/4 inch movement side to side. Something is missing. I'm working with parts accumulated over time not a remove and replace 

[1912Staver]

It looks like you are missing the ring that goes between the rim and the felloe. It is a wedge ring and the lugs press on it to wedge into the gap between the rim and the felloe. That takes up the play and makes a solid connection .

[30DodgePanel]

This is just an example of the type of part that 1912Staver mentioned.  Not sure if any of these are what you need as my catalogs only go back to 1917 and don't want to give you bad information. I'm sure one of the Cadillac experts would know but you may want to post this in the Cadillac section as they may not see it here in the Technical section

 

5 hours ago, Steven G said:

I have mounted tire and rim to fellow tightened lugs and have 1/4 inch movement side to side. Something is missing. I'm working with parts accumulated over time not a remove and replace 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Update, I just found some other info that may help. Sorry, I didn't see the 1915 info earlier as my catalog is dated 1928 and I assumed it didn't go back that far... 
According to this, your rims should be part # 5840  size 36 x 4 1/2. 

I believe the part you may need is #5842, but again, I'd confirm that with the Cadillac experts.

 

Good luck

[1912Staver]

30 Dodge, yes , the last 4 in your catalog illustration are examples of what I am talking about.

 Kelsey rims of this type were used a few different cars . But Cadillac was probably the most popular. Somewhere I have a complete Cadillac wheel from about this vintage . So with some digging I could determine which cross section is correct. But be aware, as far as I know there are a few different diameters of this style of rim. So the rings need to be both the correct cross section , and the correct diameter. I think my wheel is from about a 1919 Cadillac and is probably a smaller diameter than one for a 1915.

 

I think the rims shown in your second post are slightly too new.  I have a older catalog in my files that may show the rims and hardware for a 1915 version of the Kelsey wheel. I will see what I can come up with.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

You can see the ring up against the clamps in this photo........it's just a basic triangle shaped C ring.

[30DodgePanel]

10 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

You can see the ring up against the clamps in this photo........it's just a basic triangle shaped C ring.

So if I'm reading the catalog right then the part # is 4181 and not 5842?
 

[1912Staver]

My older catalog only covers 1916 and up. But I expect 1915 is the same. { Before 1915 I think Cadillac used Baker rims and hardware }  It shows a Kelsey " Universal " in 36 x 4 1/2.  The details vary, but I believe the Universal description comes from the fact they directly interchange with the much more common for this era Firestone rims. 

36 x 4 1/2 is a 27 inch rim. 

My newer wheel assy is the same general style of rim , rings and felloe , but 34 x 4 1/2 or 25" . 

 Acording to my catalog the 1916 and 17 Cadillac ,Kelsey 36 x 4 1/2 rims { and I presume 1915 as well } were not used on any other vehicles. But the 27" Firestone rims were used on many larger cars in the 1914 - 1916 era.  { I think the rims in Ed's photo are Firestones as per his comments in the " Great White " thread }  I strongly suspect you could use Firestone wedge rings on your Cadillac. 

 But any 27 " rims, bands, or rings are quite pricy and hard to find these days. They are used on most of the more desirable late Brass / early Nickel era cars.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

There is a AACA member in the red field....Vinnie......from Massachusetts who had a bunch of them for sale at the fall meet. Can't remember his last name. I think he and his family have a junk yard in eastern Mass. Someone here must know him and his number. 

[hidden_hunter]

I need one as well for my spare but here is the rim off a 22 assembled

 

(don’t mind the one with the failed paint, it had been previously painted with “something” that reacted badly with the new paint)

 

I’ll keep looking to see if I have any other photos 

 

 

[oldford]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

There is a AACA member in the red field....Vinnie......from Massachusetts who had a bunch of them for sale at the fall meet. Can't remember his last name. I think he and his family have a junk yard in eastern Mass. Someone here must know him and his number. 

Check with Vin Cassidy at 978-758-0834

 

Frank

[1912Staver]

So it sounds like these were made in 27", 25" and 23 " . Every couple of years Cadillac seems to drop the diameter 2 inches. I have a 1926 Cadillac rolling chassis, Kelsey Hayes wheels in 19 " . The rims are a completely different style by this point. Balloon tires starting I think in 1926 so a much wider rim. But also a split rim rather than a side ring style rim on these older Cadillac's.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

So it sounds like these were made in 27", 25" and 23 " . Every couple of years Cadillac seems to drop the diameter 2 inches.

 

The drop to 23” was for the type 61 in 1922 

[Steven G]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Very helpful