1966 or 67 Toronado questions

[60s GM Fan]

I've been considering purchasing a third classic as a semi daily driver since work isn't too far from my house (13 MI).  I love the look and uniqueness of the 66-67 Toronado.  Are there any things I should look out for when searching for one?  Gas mileage isnt going to bother me too much but my concern comes from parts, issues with the design, etc.  Please feel free to chime in if you have any advice.  Thanks!

[joe_padavano]

Unless you must have a first-year example, I'd strongly suggest a 67 over  66. As usual, many first-year issues got fixed the second year. The most important of these would be the Qjet carb, as the 1966 version has a number of one-year-only "features" that got fixed for 67. Of course, that assumes the carb is even original after more than half a century.

[60s GM Fan]

I have a similar problem with my 67 Wildcat when I first bought it.  Someone had placed a Qjet for a 71 Chevrolet on my 430.  Ran like crap.  Found the correct replacement but that one too failed when the fuel fitting stripped out of the body.  Found yet another 67 Qjet for my 430 but yes...they're near impossible to find when they're a one year only.

[rocketraider]

Toronados aren't hateful to live with but get the best car you can to start. A low-option example would be my choice because there's less to go wrong.

 

Stay away from a Comfortron equipped car. The manual-controlled A/C is quite effective and reliable and shares a lot of components with Cutlass so parts are available.

 

Look for rust in the A pillars and at the rear leaf spring mounts. Also the rear vent grille drain tubes in the trunk.

 

66-67 taillight panels are prone to pitting and are difficult to replate.

 

Toronado tend to run hot under the best conditions. Make sure all the radiator air baffles are in place and that the cooling system looks like it's been maintained.

 

Vinyl roof wasn't available in 66. The optional 67 vinyl roof always looked like the tacked-on afterthought it was.

 

Drivetrains are hard to kill. 

 

Toronado use a unique four-shock arrangement on the rear axle. The horizontal-mounted shocks are tough to find.

 

After all you've gone through with the Wildcat carb I almost busted out laughing at Joe P's carb advice. Many 66 Toronado have already had their 1st-year QuadraJet updated to the later style needle and seat or to the 1967 carburetor. 

 

There's good club and technical support in the Toronado Owners Association www.toronado.org as well as there's usually a couple of decent 66-67 cars for sale.

 

All this is experience of the owner of a 1969 W34 car who it has beaten up for 35 years!😄

[joe_padavano]

52 minutes ago, 60s Buick Fan said:

I have a similar problem with my 67 Wildcat when I first bought it.  Someone had placed a Qjet for a 71 Chevrolet on my 430.  Ran like crap.  Found the correct replacement but that one too failed when the fuel fitting stripped out of the body.  Found yet another 67 Qjet for my 430 but yes...they're near impossible to find when they're a one year only.

EVERY GM carb is "one year only" and most are one model only. As for the stripped inlet threads, this is all too common. The correct fix is a heli-coil insert. There are a number of Qjet specialists who can do this, as it requires some expensive tooling that is not cost-effective for a single use.

[carbking]

The Rochester Quadrajet, introduced in 1965 by Chevrolet, had at least its share of teething issues. I seem to remember it was given the moniker "quadrajunk" roughly nine nanoseconds after the first one was delivered

 

Talk to different folks, and you will get different opinions, but mine is the Q-Jet, as released, had four major issues:

 

(1) the internal dashpot (discontinued in 1966)

(2) the umbrella fuel valve (discontinued in 1967)

(3) the pressed-in well plugs (revised in 1968)

(4) the fuel inlet issue

 

Rochester first used a fuel inlet fitting with 3 threads. This was quickly replaced by a fitting with 5 threads, and somewhat later replaced by a fitting with 8 threads.

 

Bulletins were issued to the car companies that, when removing/installing the fuel line to the fitting, two wrenches were required. They even did a cartoon on this that I have posted here before.

 

All of the issues above can (but seldom are) be addressed by a "rebuilder".

 

(1) the casting with the dashpot cylinder is bored oversize, a brass sleeve fabricated and installed.

(2) there is a commercial repair kit to eliminate the umbrella fuel valve

(3) there are currently replacement screw in plugs available to replace the pressed in well plugs

(4) as Joe mentioned, the solution to the fuel inlet threads is a professionally installed heli-coil (and read the bulletins   )

 

Other "fixes" for the fuel inlet thread problem have been tried: (A) a self-tapping fitting (works ONCE, but removing destroys the casting), (B) a fitting with an expandable neoprene insert that causes pressure against the carb body (always carry a fire estinguisher if using this fitting), (C) epoxy (works for a while - maybe a week to 3 months). There may be others, but the heli-coil is the answer. I have bought the carburetor inventory of many auto parts stores, distributors, etc. We have ALWAYS recycled the self-tapping fittings and the "balloon" fittings. Their value depends on the price of scrap metal only (opinion).

 

There was one other issue for performance carburetors, the placement of the float pin, which was revised in 1971. The original placement of the pin, plus the "windowed" fuel valves for higher flow, resulted in fuel flowing over the top of the float at higher flow rates, causing the float to not seal. This really was not an issue for stock engines.

 

Because the "rebuilders" either do not know, or do not care; or the customer does not wish to spend the money; the fixes, other than the commercially available umbrella replacement, are not commonly done. Thus the later carburetors are generally more reliable than the "original issue" originals.

 

For those who have not seen the cartoon

 

Jon

Edited November 29, 2022 by carbking (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Jon, you missed #5, the leaking plug on the fuel inlet that required the recall and retrofit program for the early Qjets.

 

 

[carbking]

Joe - agree on the leaky plug.

 

At least Rochester acknowledged their issues, and eventually fixed them.

 

I really like the carbs.

 

Jon.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, carbking said:

Joe - agree on the leaky plug.

 

At least Rochester acknowledged their issues, and eventually fixed them.

 

I really like the carbs.

 

Jon.

 

Same here. I've found that the people who badmouth Qjets lack the skills or patience to adjust them properly.

[60s GM Fan]

Well my search continues.  I really like the 67 more so than the 68.  These don't seem to come up often for sale however.  If anyone finds one in very good to excellent shape please send me a PM.  It would fit nicely with my 55 Cadillac and 67 Wildcat.

[rocketraider]

http://toronado.org/public/classifiedsmain.html

 

I think this will be the best way to find one that's been owned by people who understand and appreciate the Toronado, and don't consider them as only a 425/455 source for a Cutlass.

 

As you see prices are all over the place.

 

Keep in mind there were twice as many 66's built as 67's, so the 66 pool may be a little larger.

[60s GM Fan]

There's currently only one 66 Deluxe for sale however I'm waiting on a response from the owner.

[rocketraider]

Deluxe came with the new-for-66 Strato-Bench seat and the door panels incorporated two door release handles. One for front seat passengers and another at the rear for back seat passengers. Deluxe outsold the Standard by nearly 6 to 1 so it's likely any 66 you find will have the higher interior trim level.

 

If a Toronado has documentation showing its timing chain has already been replaced that's a BIG plus. The engine has to pretty much come out of the car to do it. Not saying it can't be done in the car but the engine's front mount has to be removed to get the timing cover off.

[60s GM Fan]

I've been in touch with the owner of the 66 and I'm waiting on further information/pictures.  Sounds like a very nice car!  I sorta wish it was the Autumn Bronze but Target Red is also up there for color choices.

[joe_padavano]

5 hours ago, rocketraider said:

If a Toronado has documentation showing its timing chain has already been replaced that's a BIG plus. The engine has to pretty much come out of the car to do it. Not saying it can't be done in the car but the engine's front mount has to be removed to get the timing cover off.

That's actually not that difficult. Today you can get an engine support bar that spans between the fenders and supports the drivetrain from the top. Once you do that, removing the front mount is no big deal

[rocketraider]

They didn't have that support tool in 1991 when I did mine...

[deaddds]

66 didnt come in red. It was in early literature but never ended up being on the paint code shart. Glen, I didnt know you had a 69. Got pics?

[60s GM Fan]

Search continues.  I liked the one I was looking at but its a very bright red.  If anyone knows of an Autumn Bronze one or possibly silver please let me know.

[rocketraider]

If TOA allows it, put a "cars wanted" ad in the "Driver". They're out there.

 

Just looked at newest print Driver and saw Jane and John Giliberti's 66 is for sale. It may be more car than you're looking for as a sunny day driver though.

[60s GM Fan]

I was talking with Jane and I love her car but its not necessarily the car I'm looking for at this time.  I've told her that I'll be in touch as I'm still interested however I'd much prefer a Autumn Bronze one.

[60s GM Fan]

Car has been located and deal made.  Thank you for everyone who reached out to me.

[B Jake Moran]

Details and photos when available.  I restored a 66 Dubonnet and owned a 67 Aqua.  

[60s GM Fan]

Heres a sneak peak.  Payment has been received by the seller. Just waiting on transportation.  If anyone here is a transporter and able to deliver from Des Moines to Phoenix let me know!

Edited December 18, 2022 by 60s GM Fan
Photos (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

I see a lot to like about that car. Deluxe without a lot of electric accessories to give problems and looks well and correctly maintained. 

 

When it gets home check the front axle CV joint boots closely and make sure there's no splits or leakage. The life of those axles depends on keeping the CV joints sealed and lubricated.

[60s GM Fan]

Only picture I have of one of the axles and it looks pretty good to me.

[B Jake Moran]

Des Moines, that's where I am located.  Did you get it from the old car dealer downtown? 

[NailheadBob]

As @rocketraidersaid look at all c/v boots the photo you have is inner c/v boot

especially look at both outers, turn wheel extreme left and right and look for cracks or leaks

 

Bob

[60s GM Fan]

B Jake Moran no I bought it from another collector.  What dealer are you referring to?

[rocketraider]

With this insane weather forecast for Midwest and East, unless you're able to arrange enclosed transport I think I'd leave Toronasaurus in Des Moines till weather has improved. Even enclosed transport is risky on snowy icy roads.

[60s GM Fan]

Its going enclosed and supposedly its being picked up tomorrow morning.  The pickup spot is close to the interstate even though its going to be in the negative.  Worse comes to worse I wait a little bit longer.  

[60s GM Fan]

Well the 66 arrived yesterday in the early afternoon.  Perfect Christmas present!  Its smooth as butter and you can tell this is a quality machine.  Makes my 67 Wildcat and even the 55 Cadillac seems just okay.  Enjoy the photos!

[60s GM Fan]

[rocketraider]

Ya gotta remember the Toronado was the most advanced car built in America when it appeared, and was probably the most sorted-out car that ever left a GM assembly line. Toronado was built on its own dedicated Lansing line which further upped its quality.

 

I think you'll enjoy this car a lot and it will certainly turn heads.

 

TOA membership, the 1966 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual and 1966-67 Dealer Technical Bulletins and Service Guilds will help you maintain this beauty. Though you'll have to fight the A-body guys for the DTB/SG. Those cover factory service updates, parts recall campaigns etc.

 

Also get to know John Dorcey near Las Vegas. He has the world's largest 1st-Gen Toronado salvage yard in case you ever need parts. 

[60s GM Fan]

I think everything has been done to this car over the past 20 years or so.  I have receipts and all for the work.  Its definitely not as aggressive as my Wildcat but it'll kick the speedo up without feeling a thing.  Its truly a master machine.

[60s GM Fan]

The only issue I have with this one is the radio.  It'll turn on and the speakers will crackle but I get no reception.  Shot capacitors?

[rocketraider]

1st thing I'd try is using a little metal polish on the antenna mast, in case there's any funk on it. If car has its original antenna, you should be able to unscrew the black plastic base nut and pull the mast out of the base for a thorough cleaning.

 

If all that checks out look at the antenna plug and receptacle on the radio itself. Should be accessible from below. A little fine (0000) steel or brass wool will improve connections.

 

A continuity test on the antenna cable will show if it's good.

 

But, with a 56 year old set, it may need to come out for service. Looks like the Deluxe AM pushbutton radio. If you have a decent selection of AM stations you can keep it for originality, or have it updated for FM and bluetooth.

 

The other option is to find an already serviced radio. In addition to the Deluxe AM, an AM-FM and a Toronado-exclusive AM-FM-Wonderbar were available. It will have to be a Toronado radio due to the angled nosepiece. Any 66-70 Toronado radio will fit the dash; there are differences in the pushbuttons year to year.

[60s GM Fan]

If the AM deck is in need of service I'd like to try and upgrade it to the Wonderbar radio.  Any 67-70 deck works?

[rocketraider]

Watch what you ask for!😄

 

Working WB are nice but they can be, let's say, "ornery". Good thing is there are still people around who can service and tune and align them.

 

Toronado radio options:

 

Deluxe AM, 1966-70.

AM-FM-WB, 1966-1970.

With or without rear speaker.

 

AM-FM stereo, 1967-1970. Stereo radio has a separate stereo multiplexer amp and includes rear speaker. Does your car currently have rear speaker option? It will be in the grille in the rear seat backrest.

 

Stereo 8-track tape deck, 1967-70, available with AM or AM-FM Stereo. Includes rear speaker.

 

If you want the AM-FM-WB I think I have one but unsure what year. Pretty sure it's not working either. I'll have to dig it out of storage.

[EmTee]

I love the color - especially the interior.  F-35 cockpit has nothing on this...

 

[60s GM Fan]

Funny you mention the rear speaker as an option?  I thought a front and rear speaker were standard?  Reason I ask is there doesnt appear to be a fader on the radio.  I'll take a photo of it later after breakfast.