Guest Randy Berger Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I posted this here rather than in any one section because it applies to all.I am bewildered <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> by those folks who will spend thousands on a vehicle and refuse to spend $100.00 on the parts and shop manuals REQUIRED to work on those cars. Then they come on a forum and ask all manner of questions that most of the time the manual would explain. When you do give them the answer and have to refer to the manual by section or page to make your response clear, they want a more detailed explanation because they don't have a manual. Perhaps they don't know where to acquire the manual, but that should be one of their first questions. Just a vent I guess, but I've been helped by any number of people who told me where to look to find my answer rather than trying to paraphrase what has already been written. There, I feel better already! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Thanks Randy, Glad to see I'm not the only one who has made that observation. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadsterRich Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Well some folks don't know... some folks can't afford... some folks are too cheap... and for some of us, there just aren't shop manuals. I'm working on two cars right now, for the Jaguar Mk IX Saloon I have the parts manual, the service Manual, the service manual supplements, the manufacturers (OEM's) manuals where available, the systems manuals (PAS, Brakes, etc.) and every other manual I could find that even mentions the car. On my 1930 Chrysler 77 I have two different sets of parts manuals, the owners manual, and a couple of period books that reference the cars. I've had the Chrysler for about 15 months longer than the Jaguar, the difference is availability of information. If I could find a shop manual (don't think there is one as near as I can tell) for the 1930 Chrysler 77, I'd buy it in a heart beat, or any service manuals that specifically reference it even.There are many new folks that simply don't know that some items are available. It wasn't all that long ago I was one of those people. And I will still ask questions covered in the manuals, because often the manuals just aren't written or detailed enough for me (or my feeble brain) to understand. I'm not coming to the defense of cheapskates, just pointing out that not everyone knows, and even though we may spend thousands on restoring or preserving a car, it doesn't mean we have the money to spend either, so sometimes corners do get cut. The choices of which ones to cut are not always the wisest or the most educated choices, but we learn as we go.RichPS: Not sure if I'm ranting, raving, or anti-raving, or whatever, it's been a long and productive day in the garage and I'm fairly sure my brain is fried anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy Berger Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Rich, you have acquired the manuals or at least tried to accumulate all the available info. When someone responds to your questions and points to a manual or drawing or schematic you have it there to reference. Maybe the manual is wrong and somebody corrects that error - you have the manual to make notes in. If no manual is available, then you can only ask for someone who has already done the job before. Point is, you have done all you can preliminarily and we all know that sometimes that is not sufficient, but we at least understand the terminology. Sure money is tight - that's why I started fixing my own cars to begin with. One of the first things I did was to buy a Motors Manual. I was lucky - my forum were two experienced mechanics. But if I wanted to ask a question I had to know the procedure going in. Glad you had a good day in the garage <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.YFAM, Randy Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Arnett Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> agree that the best way to restore a car/truck is with plenty of written material but sometimes nothing is availiable or what is avaliable is limited or wrong. With some makes the models are very different and in some cases they have interchangable parts. I have scanned all my manuals and have made cds of the results. I have given away copies of the cds to people who are working on similar cars. I have been trying to buy a manual for my Moon for ten years with no success. With the earlier cars there are far fewer manuals compared to cars in the sixtys. You are really short changing your restoration without lit but people have built airplanes and boats without instructions but its tough. Just look at Noah. By the way does anyone have a owners manual for a 1923 Moon? I will still try and answer questions from people who ask.Thanks, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 This auction on eBay is for a showroom catalog, but it illustrates how the pursuit of information of a rather common car can be problematic even for the least stingy restorer. A lot of information for some cars comes at a premium out of scale to it's value, and looking for alternative sources (like us) can become preferable very quickly.The auction site was sent to me by a fellow BCA DFer. It's for a 1933 Ford catalog. The piece was posted at $5.00 to start with no reserve. It was bid to $3550.02! The most interesting part of the auction--nearly every bid (15 total) came from literature dealers, or at least individuals who routinely sell similar literature on eBay! Anybody trying to accurately restore or correct one of these cars was likely blown out of the water on this one <span style="font-style: italic">REAL</span> quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Interesting that this guy now owns paper worth nearly a third of the car's value. It reinforces my belief that e-bay tends to attract people with 1) more money than sense and 2) a win-at-all-costs mentality. Neither of which is a particularly attractive character trait.Of course this fool now has bragging rights and is probably telling all his similarly over-moneyed and under-sensed friends about his victory and conquest.That said, I find auctions like this immensely entertaining. I'll often put something on my watch list just to look at 'em go <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 That doesn't sound all that bad compaired to the $32,000.00+ someone spent on a fishing lure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Anybody know where I can get a manual for a 1909 Only ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Indiana_Truck Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I saw a beer can sell for $15,000 on ebay last fall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The most interesting part of the auction--nearly every bid (15 total) came from literature dealers,... </div></div> These aren't people who don't know an item's value. When you see insane amounts paid for something, if you check the bid history you'll always see 2 or more people bidding against each other repeatedly all of whom have feedback ratings of less than 20. The least experienced bidder on the auction in question after it topped $500 had a rating of 255 (mostly through sales, not purchases), and has been on eBay for more than 3 years. Knowing nothing about the catalog value of this piece, I'd say that this auction appears to have been participated in by people who do know the (monetary) value and is probably representative of what this item was worth. --but not what it was worth to me! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 The reason that catalog went for that kind of money is because it is a 1932 Ford item NOT 1933 as the seller listed it. ANYTHING related to 1932 Fords brings a premium. Now the question that begs to be asked, was the winner a restorer or Rodder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadsterRich Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Or was the winner someone planning to sell 'reproductions' of the manual for some extreme high price? IE a literature dealer, or an opportunist?Rich PS: Even with seasoned auction goers, on ocassion one get's caught up in the must have syndrome, or the frenzy of the auction. I did not look at when the bids came in, but usually if a large number come in during the last few minutes, there is a good chance of bidding panic/frenzy. The true question will be... is there buyer remorse, to which we will never know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 To Randy, thanks for bringing up this topic. To anyone new to the hobby, the best first step in your project is buy the factory service manual. You can buy one for most postwar cars for $50 or less, and rarely more than $100, and no excuses can justify going without this item. If you have a GM car the Fisher Body manual is great, and usually $25 or less. Yes, manuals for some rare prewar cars can be expensive or hard to find, but if your car is that rare you REALLY need to have one. If you are doing a full restoration a parts manual is good, and they are more rare and expensive, but if you can spend thousands on your car spend $100-$200 and have your manuals. The forums are a great resource, but they are a supplement, you still need the books. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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