29 Model U Plymouth Phaeton where are they?

[Walter Jones]

I am curious as to how many and where any are that are still out there. I haven't found any more online or in person or any records of any being listed for sale. 

Do you have one? Do you know anyone that does? Have you seen any at shows? Have you ever owned one? 

I was told there was one in South Bend Indiana being restored and one in Italy that has been restored but that's the only mention I have found here in the US or Europe. There seems to be some in Australia.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Walter Jones (see edit history)

[keiser31]

11 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

I am curious as to how many and where any are that are still out there. I haven't found any more online or in person or any records of any being listed for sale. 

Do you have one? Do you know anyone that does? Have you seen any at shows? Have you ever owned one? 

I was told there was one in South Bend Indiana being restored and one in Italy that has been restored but that's the only mention I have found here in the US or Europe. There seems to be some in Australia.

As stated before, there is actually no way to tell how many survive. Some may be languishing in some barn or garage that nobody knows about.

[keiser31]

I would just Google "1929 Plymouth U phaeton photo" and see how many show up.

https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=1929+Plymouth+U+phaeton+photo&client=firefox-b-1-d&fir=FslYrQltxq2ApM%2Cr7HX7KCuk5VKZM%2C_%3B-JGX_RmbJN1TKM%2Ci_35i9RMWuH92M%2C_%3BkxIEFPha_qOQ_M%2CMNmWrXN5FcnBxM%2C_%3BvqkuHXYHpqlBGM%2C2i-FRP6yX3T_rM%2C_%3B1TS5lVZ8AQc62M%2CD0s7J_1CveR1yM%2C_%3B-sxVtfUpwHWbJM%2CEVMg6hr9TONmpM%2C_%3B9nkM0BXYbhmAaM%2C2i-FRP6yX3T_rM%2C_%3B1MK1a3Bql9uHGM%2CbqWV86YNyneWLM%2C_%3B8uwGXJ7Q282wrM%2C8NzC-9uPQ-GrSM%2C_%3BDIFYPEo43GLD5M%2C2i-FRP6yX3T_rM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kR0I86hxnzBt6lnXZhR4iVJt2aZWw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZz5TOha77AhX9EEQIHahUBMEQjJkEegQIBxAC&biw=1920&bih=927&dpr=1

Edited November 14, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Walter Jones]

I have googled it several times and get Dodge, Chrysler, Ford and a occasional Plymouth picture that came from a ad or the specifications page. I did it this time and found about the same along with 3 pictures of our car. I just wonder how many are really out there. The previous owner said they never found any. They also had a little plaque that says there were 3,999 produced but I have never found a source for that number. 

[keiser31]

7 minutes ago, Walter Jones said:

I have googled it several times and get Dodge, Chrysler, Ford and a occasional Plymouth picture that came from a ad or the specifications page. I did it this time and found about the same along with 3 pictures of our car. I just wonder how many are really out there. The previous owner said they never found any. They also had a little plaque that says there were 3,999 produced but I have never found a source for that number. 

 

[Walt G]

Have you contacted the Plymouth Club?  They should have a roster, or at least did when I belonged decades ago and it was the Plymouth 4 Cylinder Owners Club, then the Plymouth 4 & 6 Cylinder Owners Club.  All this in an era when Jay Fisher, Earl Bouton, Don Behnke , Stan Marcum were active and we had an national meet in Deposit, NY.

[Walter Jones]

28 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

 

Maybe the person that made the plaque mistook the RHD number for the number of touring cars. What I have found in other places also says no production numbers are available

[Walter Jones]

28 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Have you contacted the Plymouth Club?  They should have a roster, or at least did when I belonged decades ago and it was the Plymouth 4 Cylinder Owners Club, then the Plymouth 4 & 6 Cylinder Owners Club.  All this in an era when Jay Fisher, Earl Bouton, Don Behnke , Stan Marcum were active and we had an national meet in Deposit, NY.

I looked at it when we first started looking at the car but didn't join because we didn't own the car yet. Now that we do I will probably join. Is there much support there for the older cars or is it mostly the newer models?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Walter Jones (see edit history)

[Leif in Calif]

Phaetons are an interesting phenonium in our hobby. I recently read that by 1925 56% off American car production were closed cars and 1926 only 28% were "open".  Phaetons must have been an old fashioned and hard to sell car by the early thirties. Now, their very "old fashioness" makes us love them more! 

[keiser31]

12 minutes ago, Leif in Calif said:

Phaetons are an interesting phenonium in our hobby. I recently read that by 1925 56% off American car production were closed cars and 1926 only 28% were "open".  Phaetons must have been an old fashioned and hard to sell car by the early thirties. Now, their very "old fashioness" makes us love them more! 

The Plymouth phaeton cost the same as the sedan, so most preferred closed cars by that time.

[Walt G]

1 hour ago, Walter Jones said:

Is there much support there for the older cars or is it mostly the newer models?

Perhaps if you join for a year and see that will tell you, it may even give you an opportunity to contact the club person in charge of the 4 cylinder cars so far as interest, data, information etc. They may not be the most popular models now but still have to have people who are club technicians etc.  Make an effort and give them the benefit of the doubt. Most likely the publications will reflect the current interest of the newer cars but to refuse to join because they don't specifically have a focus on you specific car does not make sense. It is like not going to a car show because there may not be cars there that you like - maybe if you brought yours which is earlier it would inspire others to do the same???

If you join offer to do a story on your car, tell what you know fits the 1929 , that may inspire someone to also come forth. What can you loose for the price/cost of one years dues????

Edited November 14, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

Maybe the person that made the plaque mistook the RHD number for the number of touring cars. What I have found in other places also says no production numbers are available

If you searched '1929 Plymouth touring' you will have a little more luck, though not much more. Note in the list of models from The Standard Catalog the abbreviation 'Tr' is used. Ford may have tried to make their touring cars sound more upmarket by calling them phaetons but few others in that era did. Of course after 1930 open cars became more limited production and the upper market makers gave them fancier names.

 

I know of one 1929 Plymouth touring here in NZ, though I don't have a photo of it, and there may be more. Remember though that our Plymouths were sourced from Canada. There are also a few roadsters here, along with one cabriolet, which I think is probably the rarest variant. Plymouths were popular in NZ and in 1929 had 4.9% of the market with 1050 new registrations. We have a 1929 sedan which still has its original interior.

 

The attached photo is a 1928 touring in NZ. I can only assume it is the genuine article as, unlike some other makes e.g. Buick and Studebaker, Plymouths did not have a body data plates with the body code on them.

 

Any you find in Australia will likely have locally built bodies. Even though Australia and New Zealand are close together (actually three hours by plane or several days by ship apart) their respective car markets have always been quite different due to local rules and tarriffs.

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

16 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

I am curious as to how many and where any are that are still out there. I haven't found any more online or in person or any records of any being listed for sale. 

Do you have one? Do you know anyone that does? Have you seen any at shows? Have you ever owned one? 

I was told there was one in South Bend Indiana being restored and one in Italy that has been restored but that's the only mention I have found here in the US or Europe. There seems to be some in Australia.

Here is one that was sold in OZ, though I don't know how long ago - Plymouth Model U Tourer 1929 — Rainsford Collectable Cars

[nzcarnerd]

16 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

I am curious as to how many and where any are that are still out there. I haven't found any more online or in person or any records of any being listed for sale. 

Do you have one? Do you know anyone that does? Have you seen any at shows? Have you ever owned one? 

I was told there was one in South Bend Indiana being restored and one in Italy that has been restored but that's the only mention I have found here in the US or Europe. There seems to be some in Australia.

More info here - 1929 Plymouth Model U (ply33.com)

[Walter Jones]

3 hours ago, keiser31 said:

The Plymouth phaeton cost the same as the sedan, so most preferred closed cars by that time.

It would be interesting to be able to find out how many phaeton owners had them as a second car. I sure wouldn't want it for my only car and most people were lucky to have a car at all.

[Walter Jones]

4 hours ago, Walt G said:

Perhaps if you join for a year and see that will tell you, it may even give you an opportunity to contact the club person in charge of the 4 cylinder cars so far as interest, data, information etc. They may not be the most popular models now but still have to have people who are club technicians etc.  Make an effort and give them the benefit of the doubt. Most likely the publications will reflect the current interest of the newer cars but to refuse to join because they don't specifically have a focus on you specific car does not make sense. It is like not going to a car show because there may not be cars there that you like - maybe if you brought yours which is earlier it would inspire others to do the same???

If you join offer to do a story on your car, tell what you know fits the 1929 , that may inspire someone to also come forth. What can you loose for the price/cost of one years dues????

I'm going to join now that the car is ours. I like the Mopar muscle cars too but I haven't had one in years. I did have a 68 GTX that was totaled and a 67 Charger that my son now owns. 

 

Ok I think I'm in I filled out the form and paid the fee. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Walter Jones (see edit history)

[Walter Jones]

15 minutes ago, nzcarnerd said:

More info here - 1929 Plymouth Model U (ply33.com)

I have that site bookmarked. A lot of what I know about our car I learned from there.

[Walt G]

Walter

I owned a 1931 4 cyl Plymouth for decades, only reason I sold it was because I got to tall and my legs got to long to fit in the front seat to drive it even with the front seat in the most rear mounting holes in the floor. 4 cylinder Plymouths are very peppy cars, wonderful to steer/drive . with hydraulic brakes they also stop well. Driving a car of that era is not like driving anything else you mentioned. Get used to the age and respect it, it will be a lot of fun. and you won't see a lot of 4 cylinder Plymouths anyplace!

[SC38dls]

Walt, my brother owned a 40 Plymouth convertible he bought for $49 in 60. Six months later it died so my other older brother and myself started taking the engine apart and found out it was a four cylinder also. The problem was it was a six cylinder block with two pistons missing. 
dave s 

Edited November 14, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Franklin Roosevelt had a 1931 Plymouth PA touring at his resort in Georgia. He enjoyed driving it at high speeds using special hand controls. Later replaced by a 1933 Plymouth touring.

 

[wayne sheldon]

16 minutes ago, Walter Jones said:

It would be interesting to be able to find out how many phaeton owners had them as a second car. I sure wouldn't want it for my only car and most people were lucky to have a car at all.

 

History needs to be considered in the context of its time. Open cars had been the normal thing for most of three decades. It wasn't to them like it is to people today. It was normal. On top of that, people still knew others that were still using a horse, with or without a carriage. A touring car with a good body and close top was far more comfortable and warm, especially in winter or rain, than an open carriage which had to be very lightweight for the horse's sake. And that touring car was oh so much more comfortable than sitting atop a horse (especially in the rain!)!

Also, remember that in the 1920s, everybody knew a lot of people old enough to have lived half their lives before automobiles became commonplace. People then appreciated their place in history! They appreciated the modern conveniences and new technologies a lot more than people do today.

[Walter Jones]

31 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

Walt, my brother owned a 40 Plymouth convertible he bought for $49 in 60. Six months later it died so my other older brother and myself started taking the engine apart and found out it was a four cylinder also. The problem was it was a six cylinder block with two pistons missing. 
dave s 

I've heard of people doing that but haven't actually seen it. Hey you do what you got to do poor folks have poor ways

[Walter Jones]

32 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

History needs to be considered in the context of its time. Open cars had been the normal thing for most of three decades. It wasn't to them like it is to people today. It was normal. On top of that, people still knew others that were still using a horse, with or without a carriage. A touring car with a good body and close top was far more comfortable and warm, especially in winter or rain, than an open carriage which had to be very lightweight for the horse's sake. And that touring car was oh so much more comfortable than sitting atop a horse (especially in the rain!)!

Also, remember that in the 1920s, everybody knew a lot of people old enough to have lived half their lives before automobiles became commonplace. People then appreciated their place in history! They appreciated the modern conveniences and new technologies a lot more than people do today.

My mother was born in 1919. Her parents were dirt poor and granddad did whatever he could to feed his family. He worked in the oilfield before the depression and at some point he saved enough to get a Model T. The depression came and he couldn't find work so he couldn't afford tires and gas. He traded the T for a milk cow to help feed his 4 girls. The cow died shortly thereafter. He died about 1950 and I never heard of them having another car.  

[wayne sheldon]

You know better than most how far people today have come.

[Walter Jones]

6 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

If you searched '1929 Plymouth touring' you will have a little more luck, though not much more. Note in the list of models from The Standard Catalog the abbreviation 'Tr' is used. Ford may have tried to make their touring cars sound more upmarket by calling them phaetons but few others in that era did. Of course after 1930 open cars became more limited production and the upper market makers gave them fancier names.

 

I know of one 1929 Plymouth touring here in NZ, though I don't have a photo of it, and there may be more. Remember though that our Plymouths were sourced from Canada. There are also a few roadsters here, along with one cabriolet, which I think is probably the rarest variant. Plymouths were popular in NZ and in 1929 had 4.9% of the market with 1050 new registrations. We have a 1929 sedan which still has its original interior.

 

The attached photo is a 1928 touring in NZ. I can only assume it is the genuine article as, unlike some other makes e.g. Buick and Studebaker, Plymouths did not have a body data plates with the body code on them.

 

Any you find in Australia will likely have locally built bodies. Even though Australia and New Zealand are close together (actually three hours by plane or several days by ship apart) their respective car markets have always been quite different due to local rules and tarriffs.

 

 

 

That 28 is NICE! It has the correct winged radiator cap which I understand is unobtainable. Either someone has added a lot of stuff or it has a lot of options. Our car has a tag by the drivers door that although hard to read looks like it says T-4195-0 the 4 is hard to make out and may be a 7 or even a 1. 

[Walter Jones]

1 hour ago, Walter Jones said:

If you searched '1929 Plymouth touring' you will have a little more luck, though not much more. Note in the list of models from The Standard Catalog the abbreviation 'Tr' is used. Ford may have tried to make their touring cars sound more upmarket by calling them phaetons but few others in that era did. Of course after 1930 open cars became more limited production and the upper market makers gave them fancier names.

I have a Plymouth Master Parts List Final Edition Issued April 1 1934  by Chrysler Motors parts Corp. It calls our car a Phaeton I also have a Plymouth Instruction book fifth edition May 1929 Issued by Plymouth Motor Corp. It calls our car a Touring. 

Even back then they didn't know what to call it. 

[wayne sheldon]

2 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

Even back then they didn't know what to call it. 

 

And THAT is one of the most common and contentious discussions often found on these antique car forums!

[nzcarnerd]

13 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

And THAT is one of the most common and contentious discussions often found on these antique car forums!

Yes, the subject has been discussed on these forums before. The general consensus is that body style naming was, and is, 'fluid.

 

Recently on a local facebook page there was a huge argument from those that insisted that a four door car couldn't be a coupe, but that hasn't stopped several makers using the term in very recent years for four door models. The arguments began when photos of a Rover P5 Coupe (with an accent over the e) - essentially a four door sedan with a different roof line - were posted and there were those that were so insistent that given half a chance I think they would have taken a court case over it.

 

[nzcarnerd]

17 hours ago, Walter Jones said:

That 28 is NICE! It has the correct winged radiator cap which I understand is unobtainable. Either someone has added a lot of stuff or it has a lot of options. Our car has a tag by the driver's door that although hard to read looks like it says T-4195-0 the 4 is hard to make out and may be a 7 or even a 1. 

Regarding the radiator cap, the originals got broken very easily when the hood wasn't opened sufficiently carefully.

 

An acquaintance of mine who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, also the owner of the '29 touring I mentioned, had begun the process of reproducing the caps. I am not sure what had happened to the project. Another acquaintance who was also involved and would have done any machining work has also passed. That first acquaintance had accumulated quite a lot of Plymouth cars and parts, and some of the parts found their way into our shed.  He was also into Toyota Crowns, as we also are, so several of his cars, all rare models, are now here as well.

 

Regarding that '28 tourer I will have to ask around to see who has it. Whether it was optioned up when new I don't know, although it is likely the add-ons were done at restoration time.

 

I will also have to enquire as to where the '29 touring went as well. The owner/builder had done a lot of engine modifications to it with the aim of getting it to do 100 mph. He was still some way from his goal when he died.

[PHWG]

Of note we have as 1929 Plymouth 4 dr Phaeton Model U on display in our museum. Northeast Classic Car Museum in Norwich NY

 

Information given to us from owner states it is 1 of 5 known.  

 

Phil Giltner  Norwich NY 

[Walter Jones]

3 hours ago, PHWG said:

Of note we have as 1929 Plymouth 4 dr Phaeton Model U on display in our museum. Northeast Classic Car Museum in Norwich NY

 

Information given to us from owner states it is 1 of 5 known.  

 

Phil Giltner  Norwich NY 

Thank You Phil that is the kind of info I was looking for. Is there a way I could get some pictures?

I wonder if ours is in that 5. I am guessing it is as Jim Benjaminson told me in a email that it was at one time registered to a man in Mystic Connecticut. 

At some point it was sold to the Precious Moments museum in Carthage Missouri. They downsized in I believe 2007 and sold it. The people we bought it from bought it from Lone Star Muscle Cars in Wichita Falls Texas in 2013. Maybe I'll learn more from the Plymouth Club. I joined but haven't heard anything. I guess they use snail mail and send a packet or something. 

 

[Dweber]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:12 PM, Walter Jones said:

That 28 is NICE! It has the correct winged radiator cap which I understand is unobtainable. 

I know where there is a reproduction cap that probably can be bought. I will be dealing with them soon, so if you are interested let me know and I can get some pictures.  

[viv w]

There was a 28/9 Plymouth tourer in Bulawayo Zimbabwe. The owner moved to Cape town South africa and I'm not sure if the car went to CT or to Johannesburg.

[Walter Jones]

3 hours ago, Dweber said:

I know where there is a reproduction cap that probably can be bought. I will be dealing with them soon, so if you are interested let me know and I can get some pictures.  

I would be interested if I can afford it. 

[Walter Jones]

2 hours ago, viv w said:

There was a 28/9 Plymouth tourer in Bulawayo Zimbabwe. The owner moved to Cape town South africa and I'm not sure if the car went to CT or to Johannesburg.

I was told that the POC has 13 serial numbers in their database 6 are in the US. He said there were probably another dozen or so in Australia that they don't have info on.

[Dweber]

29 minutes ago, Walter Jones said:

I would be interested if I can afford it. 

I'll ask what she wants for it and get a few pictures. 

[Walter Jones]

7 hours ago, Dweber said:

I'll ask what she wants for it and get a few pictures. 

Thank you!

Edited July 29, 2023 by Walter Jones (see edit history)