'56 Century woes

[56Twotone]

I'm working on a 1956 Century that has been sitting for 20ish years. The fuel system, excluding the carb, has been rebuilt and cleaned. My relatively uneducated guess is that the accelerator pump is leaky, along with God knows what else.

 

Before I dig into that, I wanted to check vacuum + timing, since it idles very high and stalls out shifting into/out of gear. I found that most of the wiper/washer vacuum hoses were disconnected or routed in ways that didn't make sense, which I imagine would cause a pretty good leak. I've attached pictures of the way it is now while I wait for the battery to charge up.

 

 

Can anyone with a similar car provide some insight or a picture of how this is all supposed to go together? Currently there is a vacuum line coming from the pump with a "y" joint that feeds into the wiper motor at two spots, and nothing at all going to the reservoir, except for a hose coming from the firewall. Two other hoses from that same hole are unattached to anything. The large diameter hose that assumedly brings fluid from the reservoir to the nozzles (which I also can't find) is loose as well.

 

Thanks in advance, I am not used to working on vehicles older than I am. There is a diagram floating around that points to most of this being routed incorrectly, but before I tear it apart I figured I would consult the forum gurus.

[56 Buick]

Just my 2 cents but I would proceed to see what the idle / stall issue is before being overly concerned about the routing of the vacuum lines to the wiper and washer bottle, etc. That is certainly relatively complicated and includes properly routing the lines into the car under dash. The only vacuum line you need be concerned with initially is that line travelling between the inlet manifold and the back side of the vacuum pump (bottom section of double action fuel/vacuum pump). The line coming from the front side of the vacuum pump can be blocked off for now - hopefully that is the line going to your wiper motor.

 

It would be helpful if you had more photos but I can see from the top photo that the larger diameter hose seems correctly routed to the wiper motor but then the smaller diameter hose that breaks away from the Y Junction should not also be feeding into the wiper motor. There is a good routing diagram in the workshop manual from memory. That diagram also available at the Hometown Buick website. Further, a search on this site should find it possibly searching under 'wiper vacuum routing' or similar.

 

But I would if possible just block off that line going to the wiper motor for now and concentrate on the idle/stall issue.

[56 Buick]

Also I think you are saying the glass bottle is a reservoir but it is not really, albeit it does hold the washer fluid. A vacuum line will feed a small vacuum operated pump inside the bottle. That pump pumping washer fluid to the washer jets to spray washer fluid on the windscreen.

[56Twotone]

Thank you, that is very helpful. The battery and accelerator pump are FUBAR too, so I'm trying to get as much easy stuff done as possible without finding someone to help jump it/work the starter fluid to get the thing going. This is a vacation project too, so I have to gather materials and work in bursts.

 

That wiper vacuum line is now plugged off, I agree it's wise to deal with it later. This is a very nice low mileage car that's been sitting a while, so I'm sort of working off of the assumption that everything is in good condition, if lightly messed with. That has been true so far; I've been able to rebuild the light switch rheostat and the brake master cylinder (which thank God was immaculate save for old gunked-up fluid.) All the existing vacuum lines look excellent, so I'll check for leaks but I kind of doubt it.

 

I was just about to start it, but now there's a relay(?) that is preposterously hot, right next to the wiper motor. I've been trying to charge the battery for the last few hours, so I wonder if that has to do with it.. of course going to disconnect the battery and check the manual anyway. Hopefully I can get it going and check timing and dwell and all that fun stuff, but I imagine the carb is hurting after so long and will need some significant love. At any rate, this is so much more fun than working on my Honda fit..

 

Editing to say: I take it this is the ballast resistor, and the heat is normal (?). All very new to me

Edited October 10, 2022 by 56Twotone (see edit history)

[KAD36]

Yes that’s the ballast resistor, it will get hot, hence why it is housed in ceramic, especially noticeable if you leave key on with engine not running.

 

Smart to plug the vac source for now, the vac circuit shown in the picture needs work.  Check sources provided by 56Buick after you get it running. Car pics?.  Good luck.

[56 Buick]

Yes, that is the ballast resistor in the primary ignition circuit. I have never noticed it to be hot though. As you suggest it may be due to the battery charging but I have no idea why that would occur. Perhaps others will have a more informed view than me.

[56Twotone]

Guilty as charged.. saw the key in and thought "huh, that probably ain't right." Shut it off and it cooled right down.

 

The car was my grandfather's, he kept it in beautiful condition but at some point parked it and never touched it again. It will be fun figuring out what the issue was that led to it sitting. Hope to God it was one of the ones that have been fixed already. We got it running on Independence Day and doodled around the neighborhood; it seemed fine except for the idle and stall.

Edited January 3, 2023 by 56Twotone (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Wow - that's a clean looking '56!  How's the interior?  It that black & white also?

[rocketraider]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:48 PM, 56Twotone said:

I am not used to working on vehicles older than I am.

By all means acquire one of these if you don't own one. An original print copy if possible. CD-ROMs lose detail and I can't speak to the quality of the reprints.

 

What part of Virginia are you in? There may be someone close by to help.

 

[JohnD1956]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:48 PM, 56Twotone said:

I'm working on a 1956 Century that has been sitting for 20ish years. The fuel system, excluding the carb, has been rebuilt and cleaned. My relatively uneducated guess is that the accelerator pump is leaky, along with God knows what else.

 

Before I dig into that, I wanted to check vacuum + timing, since it idles very high and stalls out shifting into/out of gear. I found that most of the wiper/washer vacuum hoses were disconnected or routed in ways that didn't make sense, which I imagine would cause a pretty good leak. I've attached pictures of the way it is now while I wait for the battery to charge up.

 

 

Can anyone with a similar car provide some insight or a picture of how this is all supposed to go together? Currently there is a vacuum line coming from the pump with a "y" joint that feeds into the wiper motor at two spots, and nothing at all going to the reservoir, except for a hose coming from the firewall. Two other hoses from that same hole are unattached to anything. The large diameter hose that assumedly brings fluid from the reservoir to the nozzles (which I also can't find) is loose as well.

 

Thanks in advance, I am not used to working on vehicles older than I am. There is a diagram floating around that points to most of this being routed incorrectly, but before I tear it apart I figured I would consult the forum gurus.

From the 1956 Product Service bulletins

 

[56Twotone]

Thank you - yep, that's the diagram I saw online. Was not sure if it was actually for a '56 or if Google was giving some weird result, especially since the existing routing was so radically different than what is pictured, and I couldn't find it in my shop manual.

[56Twotone]

2 hours ago, rocketraider said:

By all means acquire one of these if you don't own one. An original print copy if possible. CD-ROMs lose detail and I can't speak to the quality of the reprints.

 

What part of Virginia are you in? There may be someone close by to help.

 

Absolutely, I would be completely lost but thankfully one came with the car. It has been phenomenally useful.

 

I'm on the peninsula, right on the bay. As I mentioned, this was my grandfather's car, so I only get to work on it when I'm down at the house. I'm usually in NY so anything older than 10 years without cancer rot is a marvel. It does run, so my hope is that I can make it drivable and make time to meet some folks in the hobby. Sadly I always have a very tight timeframe to work on the thing, so I just try to take chunks out of it each trip.

2 hours ago, rocketraider said:

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by 56Twotone (see edit history)

[56Twotone]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Wow - that's a clean looking '56!  How's the interior?  It that black & white also?

Thanks, yep all black and white. The interior is very nice and all original, even the headliner is OK. The wonders of dry storage. Although, to give perspective to exactly how long it was sitting, I could feel the seat foam crumbling to dust when I sat down for the first time. The wheel and mirror have seen better days too.

 

Permit me to show off the dash lights. It took me the full day to rebuild it with a little spring for the rheostat, and getting the switch in was murder with all the old brittle crap under the dash.

I have to say, I've seen plenty of white-on-black cars, but not many black-on-white like this. I kind of like it, I know these aren't exactly rare but the color option is a bit of a novelty.

Edited October 11, 2022 by 56Twotone (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

15 minutes ago, 56Twotone said:

Absolutely, I would be completely lost but thankfully one came with the car. It has been phenomenally useful.

 

I'm on the peninsula, right on the bay. As I mentioned, this was my grandfather's car, so I only get to work on it when I'm down at the house. I'm usually in NY so anything older than 10 years without cancer rot is a marvel. It does run, so my hope is that I can make it drivable and make time to meet some folks in the hobby.

Accomack-Northampton Region AACA covers the Eastern Shore. You can probably find the group's contact info under "Chapters" here on AACA website.

 

Or are you on the stateside of the Bay? There are groups in the Northern Neck, Tidewater and Virginia Beach areas too. Any of them would enjoy meeting you and yer hotrod Burick.😎

[56Twotone]

On closer inspection, I see that there are two more unconnected lines coming through the grommet on the other side of the distributor (passenger side). The line coming off of the pump is missing its second "y" junction as well.

 

So that is a grand total of four vacuum lines through the firewall and two coming off the pump, all unaccounted for. I plugged off the hose coming from the pump, and will not give the rest a second thought until the car runs right. At that point I guess I'll have to either trace the lines going into the dash, or reconstruct it with a good reference picture and trial+error. 

[56Twotone]

10 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

Accomack-Northampton Region AACA covers the Eastern Shore. You can probably find the group's contact info under "Chapters" here on AACA website.

 

Or are you on the stateside of the Bay? There are groups in the Northern Neck, Tidewater and Virginia Beach areas too. Any of them would enjoy meeting you and yer hotrod Burick.😎

Haha I'm out on the peninsula, there's a pretty spectacular underwater tunnel that bridges the bay, but I'm a long way off from braving that in the Buick.

 

Thanks for the information, I will get in contact. I'd love to have a line to some local old school wisdom.

[JohnD1956]

26 minutes ago, 56Twotone said:

On closer inspection, I see that there are two more unconnected lines coming through the grommet on the other side of the distributor (passenger side). The line coming off of the pump is missing its second "y" junction as well.

 

So that is a grand total of four vacuum lines through the firewall and two coming off the pump, all unaccounted for. I plugged off the hose coming from the pump, and will not give the rest a second thought until the car runs right. At that point I guess I'll have to either trace the lines going into the dash, or reconstruct it with a good reference picture and trial+error. 

I can't speak to the small body Buick but I can tell you that on the Super you will find the hole for those thru the firewall hoses is smack dab behind the heater duct plenum. The easiest way to actually see or replace those hoses is to drop the radio and then the center section of the plenum. Don't pull on those flex hoses. They are likely glued to the vents at the edge if the dash and will tear and unravel long before they come off. They shouldnt be glued to the center metal plenum. 

[56Twotone]

3 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

I can't speak to the small body Buick but I can tell you that on the Super you will find the hole for those thru the firewall hoses is smack dab behind the heater duct plenum. The easiest way to actually see or replace those hoses is to drop the radio and then the center section of the plenum. Don't pull on those flex hoses. They are likely glued to the vents at the edge if the dash and will tear and unravel long before they come off. They shouldnt be glued to the center metal plenum. 

Thanks, that's great to know. Especially about the flex hoses. Hopefully there's a little more room under that part of the dash. My neck's cricked from trying to get that light switch in.

[Brad Conley]

I LOVE your '56!!  I came home from the hospital in my mom's '56 Super in the same color scheme but in 2dr version.  That brought back memories.  Thank you!!

[56Twotone]

1 hour ago, Brad Conley said:

I LOVE your '56!!  I came home from the hospital in my mom's '56 Super in the same color scheme but in 2dr version.  That brought back memories.  Thank you!!

That is cool, glad you like it! It is a very endearing old beast for sure.

[JohnD1956]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:11 PM, 56Twotone said:

Thanks, that's great to know. Especially about the flex hoses. Hopefully there's a little more room under that part of the dash. My neck's cricked from trying to get that light switch in.

You could remove the top of the dash board for extra comfort. Take off the windshield revel trim, and the screws under the front lip of the top itself, and then pull the top towards the back seat to dislodge. Sounds harder to do than it was. 

[56 Buick]

True but I recall that when I removed the crash pad on my car, I did require a 2nd person to assist in getting the crash pad away. It required some flexing and manipulation by someone as the other pulled. But certainly does make things easier to work on.

[JohnD1956]

Always nice to have a helping hand. 

[56Twotone]

Hello folks, 

 

I will be back down South to work on the '56 Century in a couple of weeks. Right now I'm reading up and gathering what I think I will need. I still have that idle issue - it gets close to stalling when shifting into gear, unless I pop it back into neutral and rev it up a little bit. I know of that existing vacuum leak and will be bringing plugs, and I do have a rebuild kit for the carb, as the accelerator pump is shot. I was wondering if I should bother getting a replacement dash pot before I leave; if the acc. pump is bad, is it likely that whatever seal is in the dash pot degraded too? I hate to buy parts out of speculation, but I'm trying to cover my bases.. 

 

 

 

I know that I need to clean the points as well, and I threw in new plugs last time but didn't get a chance to run it. I hope that with clean points, the new plugs, and that vacuum leak stopped up, it will run smoother; then I can try my hand at rebuilding a carb (and hopefully it won't run worse afterwards than before.) My assumption is that the timing should be ok, since it ran fine 20 years ago and hasn't done anything except sit since then. 

 

 

Also, I need to grab a battery - is there a group size that works best in these? My memory fails me, but I have a vague recollection of hearing about a particular type of marine battery, or something like that. 

 

Many thanks for any advice, and happy New Year

Edited January 3, 2023 by 56Twotone (see edit history)

[old-tank]

22 minutes ago, 56Twotone said:

Also, I need to grab a battery - is there a group size that works best in these? My memory fails me, but I have a vague recollection of hearing about a particular type of marine battery, or something like that. 

Group 31P will fit the tray and the hold down...just a little taller.  Very heavy but lots of power and usually last about 7 years in mine.

[rocketraider]

Old-tank. Is a group 31P battery similar in size to the 60K, which I think Buick used?

 

Know Olds and Cadillac used them, but finding a battery to fit properly in 1963-4 full-size Olds battery tray has been an adventure. It's stamped into the radiator core support and gives no wiggle room.

 

And as all of us with 50s-60s BOCad know, 60K is long obsolete and it's tough shelling out for a repro. Not sure the repro 60K is even available now.

[old-tank]

Similar in size just a little taller.

[56Twotone]

14 hours ago, old-tank said:

Group 31P will fit the tray and the hold down...just a little taller.  Very heavy but lots of power and usually last about 7 years in mine.

Excellent, thanks. There's a dinky WalMart (n)everstart on there now, it's been dead for so long that the battery is completely shot, but it probably was under powered from the beginning.

[56buickinga]

I like the color pattern and 4dr hardtop.

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

31P dimensions:

 

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/m-31p

 

Group 60 dimensions in this BCI table:

 

https://www.batteryequivalents.com/bci-battery-group-size-chart.html

[56Twotone]

Very handsome ride, they're almost twin cars. Whoever optioned that thing had good taste!

 

Frank, thanks for the dimension list.. Looks like the 31 would have been perfect, albeit a little taller.. I got a group 24 for a crazy discount at WalMart, they don't make a group 31. I'll fix it down the road; as of right now there's plenty of stuff to distract me from the battery size being out of whack.

 

Speaking of which, anyone know of a way to refinish/replace degraded rear view mirror glass, or am I stuck buying the full unit?

[Frank DuVal]

Note! A 31-P is different than a group 31. The P means POSTS (as far as I can guess), as a normal group 31 just has two 3/8-16 studs out the top for connections, and a 31-P has the typical lead posts on top.

[old-tank]

I have used both you can buy posts that will screw onto the studs of the group 31 battery.

[56Twotone]

OK, I've been making pretty good headway this week. The last trip in January was a bust; I plugged some vacuum leaks and fiddled with some other things, but it still ran like crap. Right now I'm rebuilding the carb and can see exactly why it wasn't running right. The threads on the automatic choke were completely stripped out, and the vacuum fitting was just sort of jammed on top. I re-cut the threads (which are 7/16 x 20, but hopefully no-one else needs to know that.) The female fitting didn't look damaged, but I'll have to look at the threads on that so I don't strip the carb out again. The accelerator pump was indeed bad, as suspected, and the power piston turned out to be completely jammed in place, which explains the power delivery issues. I looked through the stack of service documents and I don't think the thing has been opened since 1992, when it was split in half to put in a new accel pump. I have no idea how long it's been since it was rebuilt, but I went at everything carefully with a brass brush and dumped it in an ultrasonic cleaner until it shone, so in theory it should work quite well now.

 

The only issue so far has been a stripped face on a low speed jet. It was so frozen up that nothing budged it. blowtorch, ultrasonic cleaner, tapping with a hammer, etc. The brass gave out before the threads did. Even as crapped up as my carb was, all the others that I took out were completely clear and open. There are a few forum posts floating around that describe this exact issue. So to anyone rebuilding a WCFB, DON'T BOTHER WITH THE IDLE JETS. The one that I stripped is clear too, thankfully, but these parts are complete unobtanium, so it's going to stay where it's stuck and I'm going to do my best to forget about it.

 

Next up is setting the float height and putting the piston body onto the main body. You could tell it had been running wrong for a while because every adjustment was turned to one maximum or the other to compensate for the other issues. As expected, the manual has an excellent section on rebuilding the carb and setting all the linkages correctly, so I'll set everything to the recommended baseline, throw it on the car, and try to tune it. I forgot my timing light and dwell meter so I will have to do it all more or less by ear, but my hope is that no-one else got far enough as to mess with the timing. Looking at the old plugs, there is some evidence of a misfire. Hopefully the carb rebuild either fixes that, or it comes around on its own once I start exercising it a little bit.

 

Now to put it in the car..

[56Twotone]

I should change the name of this thread from "woes" to "wins".. this car has been very accommodating of my amateur skill. It runs far, far better now. There's still a suspiciously high idle speed, sounds like someone's just barely got their toe on the throttle, but the stalling issue is gone, no more misfiring, no more overheating, and it accelerates very smoothly.

 

I am really kicking myself for forgetting the timing light. I have a suspicion that it's advanced too far, and everything else has been adjusted wrong so I have no reason to doubt that the timing wouldn't be. I'm asking around to see if anyone nearby has a light knocking around, but if it comes to it I'll try to retard it a hair and see how the engine responds.

 

As for new issues, there's a slight drip from the front of the transmission. I've been expecting some kind of seepage as it seems to be a common issue. Anyone have an idea for a fix that won't involve tearing the whole thing apart? Or is this just a matter of checking the fluid every so often?

 

Sorry for just posting text, I know the car is the interesting part. I have a couple photos and a video of the idle sound, but my phone is being temperamental at the moment.

 

As always, thanks for input

[56Twotone]

 

 

Idle and car, respectively. It looks like it's sitting a little low on one side, can't tell if that's due to the tires being old (date code '88) and unevenly inflated, or if it's just how the body is. But overall it's really coming along, almost suspiciously easily... I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

Looking forward to a nice slow drive around the neighborhood tomorrow.

[rocketraider]

That hot rod Burick is telling you it wants to run!

 

Advanced timing can cause a high idle, but have you made sure the idle speed adjustment is correct, and the automatic choke is allowing the fast idle cam to kick down?

[56Twotone]

10 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

That hot rod Burick is telling you it wants to run!

 

Advanced timing can cause a high idle, but have you made sure the idle speed adjustment is correct, and the automatic choke is allowing the fast idle cam to kick down?

Thanks Rocketraider,

 

I adjusted the idle stop screw and mixture screws to what the manual describes as the optimal "baseline" settings - 1 1/8 turns on the mixture screws, to my memory. The idle throttle stop description wasn't immediately as clear to me and there was no diagram, so it's possible that I did set it incorrectly. My logic was that, if it was idling high beforehand as well, it likely was not due to me incorrectly setting the carburetor - although it's possible that I just made the same mistake as the last guy. I also didn't want to go fiddling with the carb until I was sure that something in the timing wasn't to blame.

 

I do need to check that the fast idle cam is working as it should. The thought just came to me a couple minutes ago. Come to think of it, I don't remember hearing it kick down at all.. probably a good place to start investigating. That linkage assembly was one of the only things I didn't dis/re-assemble thoroughly.

 

And yes, that thing is really aching to be run. I don't trust those tires above 35 mph, but maybe I'll do some light field testing on that fresh accelerator pump circuit tomorrow.. the full Italian tune-up will have to come later..

 

 

[JohnD1956]

Do fix that idle before dropping it into reverse. A fast idle resulted in dislodging the reverse band strut on my first 56.  

[56Twotone]

32 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

Do fix that idle before dropping it into reverse. A fast idle resulted in dislodging the reverse band strut on my first 56.  

Yikes, that's very good to know, especially since the car is currently nose-in in the garage. Do you remember what the issue was, out of curiosity?