Pontiac block water pipe 1933-1940 6&8

[Flivverking]

Period NOS replacement water pipe (in block?) For 33-'40 Ponti six's and '33-40 eights.

 $12.00 plus shipping.PENDING check in the mail.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Flivverking (see edit history)

[Bloo]

PM sent.

[Flivverking]

PS this little gem goes in the intake manifold .

 Isn't life grand!

[NailheadBob]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:56 PM, Bloo said:

PM sent.

@Bloo I am just seeking information on this part A-23, I was looking at 1954 Pontiac master parts book in group section 1.135 Tube, Water Outlet, is this the part in the container? it shows part # 508706 for P6 fits 37 thru 54 maybe I am looking in wrong section, OR this book is not early enough?

I thought earlier topic when replacing your water pump, discussion about sleeve/fitting that should be replaced, photo's of part also would help me understand.

 

maybe @Kornkurt could shed some light on this for me,

 

Thank You in advance for any information,

 

Bob

 

EDIT: I was incorrect on Group # 1.135 Tube, Water Inlet, correct part # 508708 SORRY @Bloo for the confusion from me, my eyes are not what they used to be.

Edited October 23, 2022 by NailheadBob
update (see edit history)

[Bloo]

This is not the water tube. It is part of the heat riser. I am not at home at the moment, so unfortunately cannot look up group numbers. On a flathead Pontiac, if you take the carburetor off and look down the hole in the intake manifold, you are looking through the center of this tube. Exhaust is forced up around the outside of the tube when the engine is cold, but there is always a little exhaust up there even when hot.

 

This is another common failure in flathead Pontiacs now that they are decades old. The tube rusts through and lets exhaust into the intake manifold. It causes horrible driveability problems. I vaguely remember a conversation with @Kornkurt about these tubes, and there may be more than one kind of them, probably depending on the year. Also, I believe the 2-barrel models don't use any tubes like this.

 

Until I get home and see my book, I am going to guess "water outlet" is the thermostat neck. The thermostat in these cars does not mount in the usual way. It fits up inside the thermostat neck and is held in place by a slotted metal tube. That metal tube is another thing that might be rusted out decades later. The tubes are available new, but as I understand it they are too long and have to be cut down to fit. I bought an NORS one and still had to cut it shorter. That was for 1936. Other years might differ.

 

 

[NailheadBob]

I did not think this tube was related when I posted before, Group # 3.254 Tube, Intake Manifold Riser Part # 500340 ?

 

 

Thank You in Advance,

 

Bob

 

EDIT: (3 5/16" X 1.565) ?

Edited October 22, 2022 by NailheadBob
update (see edit history)

[Bloo]

This isn't as easy as I thought. I am not finding any reference to the part we are calling "A-23".

 

Group 1.135 is the long skinny water tube made of brass or galvanized steel that goes inside the block, and that I was modifying in the other thread. 494961 (33-36 eight), 497010 (35-36 six), 500079 (37 eight), and 500080 (37 six). The book stops at 37, and I believe these 37 parts fit until the end in 54. I don't know what 508706 is. Maybe new and improved? Was it for six or eight?

 

Group 1.251 is the tube that holds the thermostat in. 494906 (33-36) and 500171 (37).

 

Group 3.647 (manifold heat control) also includes a tube that sounds like it might be what we are looking for, but is NOT. It carries hot radiator air down to the heat riser spring. I'm including it to avoid any confusion. It is 498126 (35-37).

 

Back to "A-23". I don't have Group 3.254 and I am not seeing 500340 anywhere. My book does not have a good manifold picture. Early Times Chapter used to have a heat riser exploded view posted with group numbers, but not anymore. I found that same graphic in a 1941 parts book when I was at the AACA Library, and I took a picture of it. I just checked and it does not call out the group we are looking for.

 

I think I recall Kurt telling me his books only listed the part we are calling "A-23" back to 1937. I came to the same conclusion on my own back then, but I don't remember how. I am now convinced that the part was used back to 1935 at least, and probably 1933, even if Pontiac was not listing it separately from the intake manifold.

 

I'd be happy to measure this thing once I get my hands on it.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[NailheadBob]

@Bloo

Group 1.135 is the long skinny water tube made of brass or galvanized steel that goes inside the block, and that I was modifying in the other thread. 494961 (33-36 eight), 497010 (35-36 six), 500079 (37 eight), and 500080 (37 six). The book stops at 37, and I believe these 37 parts fit until the end in 54. I don't know what 508706 is. Maybe new and improved? was it for six or eight?

 

It lists P/8 (8 cylinder I would think?)

 

'd be happy to measure this thing once I get my hands on it.

 

Please measure and photo if possible for inquiring minds like me.

 

FYI: 1955 Oldsmobile Master Chassis Manual  Lists GROUP # 1.135 TUBE, CYLINDER BLOCK WATER DISTRIBUTOR  PART # 408108 FITS 1937 THRY 1950 6 CYLINDER, and # 410055 FITS 1937 THRU 1948 8 CYLINDER

Could this interchange with the tube in block that you made?

 

Thank You For All your knowledge and Help from all of us Forum members, you are an asset to this AACA community

 

Bob

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by NailheadBob
Add photo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

No, the Pontiac is unique. The valves are laid out more traditionally on an Oldsmobile, while the Pontiac is a "10 port" block (on the six) and if I remember correctly the eight has the same sort of valve layout. Also that trapezoid shape on the tube seems to be unique to Pontiac.

 

Also I am fairly sure 6 and 8 Pontiac have different water tube hole spacing from each other because I believe the bore spacing is closer on the eight.

 

I believe the same tubes interchange 37-54 as long as it is the right number of cylinders. The 33-36 seem to be 1/4" longer at the very front and don't have the bell mouth. There are variations, but that seems to be the only early difference that is likely to matter, and the part I changed in that other thread. Well another detail that might matter is the fact that before 35 or so they didn't have the little holes so a really really early tube might be sort of undesirable.

 

Are you considering making one? I did take measurements for tube size and hole spacing, but I only have 6 cylinder. Do you have a six or an eight?

 

Yes P/8 is Pontiac eight. P/ for Pontiac and O/ for Oakland in these old parts manuals mostly. There are exceptions, but they are way back in the 1920s I think.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[NailheadBob]

@Bloo

Are you considering making one? I did take measurements for tube size and hole spacing, but I only have 6 cylinder. Do you have a six or an eight?

 

I am NOT going to make one, but I am gathering information on this pipe because it interest me very much, and you are a great source of information.

 

Friend of mine recently purchased a 1936 Pontiac with 327 V-8 and 4 speed transmission and a Ford 9" rear end and is going to flip car, BUT the friend he purchased it from still has the Pontiac 6 cylinder engine, transmission, and complete drive train sitting in his shop.

 

Bob

 

[Bloo]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:48 PM, NailheadBob said:

I did not think this tube was related when I posted before, Group # 3.254 Tube, Intake Manifold Riser Part # 500340 ?

 

 

Thank You in Advance,

 

Bob

 

EDIT: (3 5/16" X 1.565) ?

 

I have "A-23" in my hand, and it measures 3-1/64" (3.014")  X 1.570" (O.D.) 1.428" (I.D.)

 

That's just measured with a caliper. I have heard these are a pain to drive in. I would imagine the O.D. is critical because it needs to seal vacuum, and since it is exposed to exhaust, any sealer used would have to be fireproof.

 

 

 

[NailheadBob]

I see the sleeve in your photo., and thanks for the measurements!

 

Could you post a photo with your new sleeve and the A-23 can side by side?

 

Thanks

 

Bob

[Bloo]

I'm not sure I understand. I only have one, I bought the one in this thread from Flivverking.

 

[NailheadBob]

Please could you post a picture of your sleeve  standing upright next to the upright container it came in, so both can be seen together in same photo.

 

I did figure you purchased it from Fivverking.

 

Bob