Karejorgen Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 I am in the process of starting up my D45 project and I am a little usure about the camshaft timing. When the 2 dots on the cam wheel line ut with the crankshaft, the intake valve on cyl 1 have started to open. So I guess it is wrong. Should I use the 2 other marks on the cam wheel then? But regardless of wich set of cam wheel marks I use the mark for the magneto wheel wil not line up with the cam wheel. So if someone have a good how to, pics from their timing gear or pics of a manual😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Here are some photos showing what the timing gears should look like when you set the engine back together. The only thing that is drop dead important is the relationship between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear. The water pump shaft gear can go anywhere you want to put it. To time the engine the number one cylinder should have the intake valve closing and then bring the piston up to top dead center. The distributor rotor is placed to the number one cap terminal and this should get things close enough to start the engine. Pay close attention to the single dot marks on the crank and cam gears - they must mesh together. What is shown in your photos is not correct. If you have any questions, come back on here and you will be walked through things. I hope that my photos will help make things clear for you. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karejorgen Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 So single dot marks like your pictures then😊 Is the double dots orginal or something from when people have been working on it? When cyl 1 is on top with closed valves I get a line marked with 16 on my flywheel lining up in the hole on top of the clutch housing, in the paperwork I have it says for ignition timing it should be a 7 degree mark 1 inch away from the TDC mark. But my line marked with 7dtc is 3-4 inches away from the line when piston 1 is on top. Also 3 unmarked lines on the flywheel. Is this something you are familiar with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karejorgen Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 Also forgot, should piston 1 be on tdc when the single dots line up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Follow Terry's advice, and the cam timing will be right. This other stuff is a separate issue. If there is ANY doubt about the accuracy your TDC mark, figure it out and fix it now. The cam timing is unaffected by that. 51 minutes ago, Karejorgen said: Also forgot, should piston 1 be on tdc when the single dots line up? I'll bet Terry knows that, but I don't. Personally I wouldn't trust it for TDC even if that is true. Remember that a four stoke engine only fires #1 on every other revolution of the crank. 55 minutes ago, Karejorgen said: When cyl 1 is on top with closed valves I get a line marked with 16 on my flywheel lining up in the hole on top of the clutch housing If you can even tell where that spot is by the valves, you are probably on the wrong turn of the crank. If you were on the firing turn both valves would have been closed both a long time before and a long time after TDC. It really doesn't matter for checking TDC, as TDC comes up on every turn. It matters for the ignition only. The ignition only fires every other turn. But, since you were comparing it to the ignition mark, which also comes up on every turn, even though the ignition only FIRES on every other turn, I suspect you might be about a whole turn from where you might think you are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Kare, The critical thing here is tying the camshaft to the crankshaft in the proper relationship. Put the two dots (one on each gear) together and you are done with those gears. It doesn't make any difference where you put the water pump shaft gear because that is set by the action of the #1 cylinder and the distributor rotor. If you place the #1 piston at top dead center after the intake valve has closed, if the flywheel has been installed correctly, then you should see #'s 1 and 6 on the flywheel looking through the mousehole in the flywheel housing. I went through all this with setting my engine back together. There are 6 bolts that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft flange and the flywheel IS NOT indexed to the crank. This means that you have 5 chances to install the flywheel wrong. This is a really simple engine to set the timing on. The distributor head cannot be adjusted. The only adjustment is the advance and/or retard of the spark. The dwell angle is important to have the engine run properly. If the timing is not right the engine will have loss of power and quite possibly will run hot. I have been told that the dwell angle for a 6-Cylinder engine is somewhere between 30 and 35 degrees. After I had the engine all back together and running well, I checked the dwell and got a reading of 28 degrees. EVERYONE SAID LEAVE IT ALONE! I did exactly that and the engine runs just great. Please do not do what I did and try to overthink everything. If you will follow what I have laid out for you things will come together well for your engine. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 That's a very good question. I did not see what you picked out of the photo the first time. If he goes by the clocking of the keyway slot in the camshaft gear and puts things like they are in my photo he should be OK. I don't know what he has there. It sure would help to have the photo in a straight up and down position so that things are square with the world. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karejorgen Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 I put it like it was in Terrys photo, timed the distributor, it was almost running. But started to leak badly out of the carb, and no time to look into before I left for 2 weeks of work. But there was no misfire or anything, it was straight on trying to run when cranking it😊 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karejorgen Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Morgan Wright said: That is why I made this post, so many "timing" marks. Also marks on the gear for the waterpump/distributor as you can see in the photo. But those will never line ut with anything correctly. But seems to be correct after Terrys photo, just need to get the carb sorted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Kare, As I stated earlier, I did not see the second 'single' dot on the camshaft gear. In this particular case you are going to have to pay very close attention to the indexing of the camshaft key slot in relation to the crankshaft gear. Hopefully, and it sounds like you are on the right track, you should be able to get the engine started. I have given you the best and only information that I have about setting this gearset together. If someone else has more information I hope that they will jump in here and enlighten us all. The best of luck to you with this project. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Snook Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Terry, Is there a proper way to position the distributor after reassembly? I put my 1917 4 cyl motor back together after water pump repair with the dots positioned and the pump shaft placed randomly. Now the car starts quickly but runs as if retarded even if the lever on the wheel is fully advanced. I put all of the linkages back together as they were before as best I could tell. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Snook Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 I should clarify. To the extent that I can rotate the distributor easily after assembly I am up against the end of the range of motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) Not sure on the six, but on the 4 cylinder you loosen the screw that holds the cam for the breaker to adjust the timing. (It should be the same). Pull off the rotor and there should be a slotted screw. it's a bit tricky to just move it a bit ahead. It's a trial and error thing. Edited November 25, 2022 by Oldtech (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Jim, I see that you are a really new member to our early Buicks enthusiast group. You are at the right place for help with your questions. As I have stated many times on here - I am not all that familiar with the four cylinder models. I know enough about those engines to be dangerous. I do know that the Starter/Generator Unit is very near the 6-Cylinder version with the exception of being 2 cylinders worth short. The distributor head on both the 4's and 6's doesn't come out of the body of the unit. The adjustment is done with the timing of the #1 cylinder and the placement of the distributor rotor on the shaft. The only adjustment is with the spark lever in the steering wheel. If you will go back to the beginning of this thread and read things through very carefully (as many times as needed so that you will understand just what to do) you should be able to get your engine timed to the point where it will run really well. I want to add one more thing that I didn't tell Kare about in my original two postings. When you are going through the process of getting the piston at TDC in #1 Cylinder - make sure that the spark lever is in the fully retarded position so that when the engine fires you can advance the timing to full advance. One other thing is checking the dwell with a meter that has a dwell setting once you have everything running well. I hope that I have been able to explain things well for you. If there is something that you don't quite understand, please ask. There are folks here that can do a much better job than I have about getting your engine running well for you. I hope Mr. Heil will tell you what the dwell angle for a 4-Cylinder engine should be. Good luck with you engine and keep us up to date with your progress. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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