Does anyone have old Torrington Bearing catalogs?

[Bloo]

Does anyone have an old Torrington Bearing catalog from the 30s, 40s, or 50s? Late 1930s would be best.

 

Looking for information on drawn cup needle bearings such as the NB-10, NB-10-X, NB-10-OH, etc.

 

I have identified 3 GM part numbers that might or might not be the same bearing. They are 493298, 148446, and 148452. Do Torrington catalogs have a cross reference?

 

Of special interest would be if a bearing exists that fits the same non-standard shaft size as an NB-10-X, but presses into a 13/16" bore instead of a 3/4" bore. Maybe the 493298 is like this? Maybe not.

 

If anyone has info I would be grateful.

 

[Peter Gariepy]

http://bearingsize.info/tag.html?t=TORRINGTON

 

[Bloo]

Thanks Peter, but that drew a blank on every number I have. I have also downloaded a few catalogs from the last 30 years or so and drew a similar blank. I believe this bearing may have been a custom job for a half year run of water pumps by Pontiac division in late 1936, but information is sparse.

 

I think any information about the bearing is going to have to come from period literature.

 

There may be two outer diameters, 13/16" and 3/4". I am starting to doubt 13/16" exists, but my pump casting has a 13/16 bore. I know for sure a 3/4" version of this bearing exists, I have one in my hand. It is a Torrington NB-10-X. The oddest part is the shaft size, it measures 31/64".

 

 

[MCHinson]

5 hours ago, Bloo said:

Thanks Peter, but that drew a blank on every number I have. I have also downloaded a few catalogs from the last 30 years or so and drew a similar blank. I believe this bearing may have been a custom job for a half year run of water pumps by Pontiac division in late 1936, but information is sparse.

 

I think any information about the bearing is going to have to come from period literature.

 

There may be two outer diameters, 13/16" and 3/4". I am starting to doubt 13/16" exists, but my pump casting has a 13/16 bore. I know for sure a 3/4" version of this bearing exists, I have one in my hand. It is a Torrington NB-10-X. The oddest part is the shaft size, it measures 31/64".

 

 

I have a United Motors Service Bearing application booklet. I don't know if this helps you any but for 1936 Pontiac P6 and P8 is lists the Fan & Waterpump bearing as a ND 885140 with the footnote that it is "Used only where replacement pump with ball bearing shaft has been added (packless type)."

[Bhigdog]

7 hours ago, Bloo said:

I know for sure a 3/4" version of this bearing exists, I have one in my hand. It is a Torrington NB-10-X.

13/16 X 3/4 Bushing pressed into housing...............Bob

Edited October 5, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

I have a United Motors Service Bearing application booklet. I don't know if this helps you any but for 1936 Pontiac P6 and P8 is lists the Fan & Waterpump bearing as a ND 885140 with the footnote that it is "Used only where replacement pump with ball bearing shaft has been added (packless type)."

Thanks. The pump I'm working on is a few months older, and the little Torrington bearing is for the fan. The pump part of the assembly still uses packing. This pump went into production at engine 6-178352 (June, 1936) and was sold as a replacement for $5.00 until the ball bearing pump came along.

 

I am fairly sure that GM 148446, and 148452 are 3/4" OD and 31/64" I.D., but have no idea why there is more than one part number. GM 493298 is from a service bulletin at the time these pumps were current production. If a 13/16" O.D. x 31/64" I.D. bearing ever existed, this is probably it. It also might be listed by size in a catalog if there is no cross reference.

 

At this point it seems likely someone reamed out the bore.

 

[SC38dls]

Bloo I hope to see Walt tomorrow I will ask him if he possibly has the catalog you are looking for or any other info he may have. He is a store house of old car literature. If he has it I’ll get it to you. 
dave s 

[Bloo]

Hi Dave, If you do indeed find yourself in a storehouse of car literature, please ask about a 1936 Pontiac Master Parts Book.

 

I speak of the 1936 edition specifically, as there are other editions that cover 1936 models, but it is the 1936 edition I am looking for. It should be black with some silver stripes I suspect, and probably 1-1/2" or 2 inches thick. The word "master" is important as it means it is the complete book. Books marked "wholesale" are abridged.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

I will be happy to look. 
dave s 

[Bloo]

13 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

13/16 X 3/4 Bushing pressed into housing...............Bob

I'd love to but that is pretty thin. I did look for that but didn't find a source. Maybe if I can find someone local who has a 3/4" piloted reamer....

[Bhigdog]

True. If it twer me I would turn then bore the bushing to a slip fit for both and Lock Tite it in place. No worries about pressing either the bushing or bearing in place. With the correct Lock Tite it's a life time fix. I'd likely use brass for the bushing..........Bob

Edited October 6, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

I found this if it's any help. It's a PDF

http://www.tdh.sk/files/catb2016e.pdf

[1939_Buick]

Pdf file above will not download for me: security risk.

 

https://daltonbearing.com/torrington

 

Quote

The Torrington Company is a division of the Timken Company.  Torrington produces a wide assortment of radial and thrust needle roller bearings as well as bearings assemblies for particular applications.  

 

https://www.wychbearings.co.uk/b-1010_needle_bearing_koyo.html

5/8 shaft x 13/16 OD

Then bush?

Edited October 6, 2022 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, Laughing Coyote said:

I found this if it's any help. It's a PDF

http://www.tdh.sk/files/catb2016e.pdf

Thanks, but I have that one. It's from 2016. There seems to be nothing of this series included, if it is a series. It may be just plain custom.

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, 1939_Buick said:

Pdf file above will not download for me: security risk.

 

https://daltonbearing.com/torrington

 

 

https://www.wychbearings.co.uk/b-1010_needle_bearing_koyo.html

5/8 shaft x 13/16 OD

Then bush?

Thanks for the links. 5/8" is way too big. It's similar to what the last guy did, apparently he used an Oldsmobile shaft (oversize at the front) and then just bushed the front in bronze and eliminated the bearing entirely. It did work. I might put it back in. The rear bushing is a special part with an oilite bush inside a bronze thrust bearing, so the rear part of the shaft must remain 31/64". It makes things a bit hairy taking it apart because you must press on the casting in a way you probably shouldn't. I still want answers about the bearing even if a 13/16" x 31/64" one exists and I can't get it. If it turns out that the bore in the front of the pump body should be 3/4" instead of the 13/16" it is now, it would be preferable from my point of view to sleeve it back to 3/4" somehow. The sleeve would need to remain concentric with the rear bore. Also, I have a 3/4" x 31/64" bearing in my hand, so there's that....

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

If you want to use a 13/16 X 3/4 bushing let me know............Bob

[3macboys]

Not sure if this will help but this is the best that I can find. 

[3macboys]

[3macboys]

[3macboys]

Those were out of this manual 

[Bloo]

Thanks for posting that. Looks like 1971? That's older than anything I found online by quite a bit. The bearings sizes listed closely resemble what is still available now. Still no match, but getting older.

[SC38dls]

Bloo I stopped at a number of places that had catalogs for sale and no one had the 36 Pontiac shop manual. Sorry I couldn’t help. 
dave s 

[Bloo]

Thanks for looking!

[3macboys]

3 hours ago, Bloo said:

Looks like 1971

Yes the print date was 1971.  I'll check my pile of other books to see if I can find more info, however, it will likely be Tuesday before I get to it.  Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend and I have a couple of 5 hr round trips to pick my youngest up from school tomorrow and take him back on Monday.

[NailheadBob]

On 10/5/2022 at 2:10 PM, Bloo said:

Hi Dave, If you do indeed find yourself in a storehouse of car literature, please ask about a 1936 Pontiac Master Parts Book.

 

I speak of the 1936 edition specifically, as there are other editions that cover 1936 models, but it is the 1936 edition I am looking for. It should be black with some silver stripes I suspect, and probably 1-1/2" or 2 inches thick. The word "master" is important as it means it is the complete book. Books marked "wholesale" are abridged.

 

Here is one on e-bay, a little pricey, but maybe make him an offer?

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/320819654173

 

Bob

[Bloo]

Yeah, I am aware of that one. I first saw that listing around the same time I bought my car. I guess that was 6 or 7 years ago? The book is in really rough shape too, not that I care much about that but it does affect the value. Similar manuals for other years have been selling on ebay for 1/3 of that or less, and usually in much better shape. Maybe someday I'll start throwing him offers. I don't want to insult the guy, and it isn't a super high priority to me right now, there's just 5 or 6 things I would like to look up. I already have the 1937 Master Parts Book. It cost less than 1/4 of what that guy is asking. 1937 is the useful one for a 1936 car because 1936 Pontiacs have an absurd number of mid year changes that wouldn't be covered in a book published in late 1935 or early 1936.

 

I wouldn't expect it to be rare. There was in early 1936 some misunderstanding about what the 1936 Shop Manual was supposed to cost. Apparently the dealers interpreted the heavily discounted price Pontiac intended it to be retailed for as a wholesale price. There was some disagreement about it.

 

In the fallout a month or so later, Pontiac was sending a Shop Manual, or a Master Parts Book, or both, free(!) to any 1936 Pontiac buyers who asked for them. This included people who had bought a 1936 Pontiac before the policy change. I suspect this is why the 1936 Shop Manuals are so common. There seem to be more of them around than surviving cars. I would expect the 1936 Master Parts Book to be common too for the same reason. It doesn't seem to come up much. Maybe not that many owners asked for it?

 

EDIT: That may have been the new "users guide" instead of the shop manual, and if so does not explain the high survival rate of shop manuals. The low price may explain it. What I said about the Master Parts Book still holds. An owner could request that free of charge.

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Return PM sent, John.

[stutzl6]

If the no. is nb10-oh it has a oil hole . On ebay 1339887216530 has stock stutzl6

[stutzl6]

Bloo ebay no not correct 133987216530 stutzl6

[Bloo]

Thanks!

 

Yes, I read somewhere that Torrington used to put oil holes in all of them, and then suddenly stopped, and after that you had to add the OH suffix to get an oil hole. The age of the bearing might matter. I do need the oil hole.

 

Last month I was going to buy that one you linked on the strength of the idea that OH means oil hole even though there were no pictures, but I got a bearing from KornKurt when I drove through Iowa a couple weeks ago. Actually it was a whole water pump of the wrong year that I bought on the strength of the idea that the bearing might be in there. It was in there, along with some other parts I can use. The bearing has an oil hole, and it is marked NB-10-X.

 

I messaged 2 other ebay sellers over a month ago about the oil hole. One of the listings had pictures that may have been of the bearing, and may have been of the Loch Ness Monster. The other had 3 pictures of the same side of the bearing. Neither responded about the oil hole.

 

I suspect all these NB-10 variants have a 3/4" O.D. but would like to know for sure.

 

 

[Kornkurt]

John, Glad that pump yielded the parts you needed! Kurt

[Flivverking]

I'm late to this party..Torrington Connecuicut   Company?

[Bloo]

Yes. Famous for needle bearings, especially needle bearing thrust washers. Those thrust washers are called "Torrington Bearings" no matter who made them in the same way all tissues are called Kleenex. They also made bicycle pedals of very high quality. Drawn cup needle bearings like the one in this thread were probably one of their inventions as well, though I am less sure of that. I doubt there is much left of them in Connecticut today. Torrington Bearing has apparently been owned by both Koyo and Timken, and I am not sure who owns them now.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Hey John, I made your bushing today. I used tool steel rather than brass. I think that's a better choice if you have to press. I actually made two. One with wider clearances to ensure a fit. I'll need your address. PM also sent............Bob

Edited October 11, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

PM sent with tracking #...............Bob

[Bloo]

Thank you!