1989 Chrysler TC Maserati

[TCMan89]

I have a 89 Chrysler Maserati that starts but then shuts off. Fuel pump is new and getting fuel to injectors. Tested injectors and only 2 are working. I'm sure it's the ECU 

I replaced engine with another 89 Chrysler TC motor and I'm wondering if I should have took computer from donor car? 

Anyone have any ideas it would be appreciated 

[Hemi Dude]

1 hour ago, TCMan89 said:

I have a 89 Chrysler Maserati that starts but then shuts off. Fuel pump is new and getting fuel to injectors. Tested injectors and only 2 are working. I'm sure it's the ECU 

I replaced engine with another 89 Chrysler TC motor and I'm wondering if I should have took computer from donor car? 

Anyone have any ideas it would be appreciated 

You really have not provided sufficient diagnostic information for anyone to give more than a guess, the last thing I would condemn is the SMEC (ECU).

You are aware that 2 injectors fire (squirt) simultaneously in alternate sequence with the other two, aren't you not? Yes, you should have acquired the SMEC from the donor car.

Since you hopefully got the replacement engine with the entire fuel rail as well, you hopefully still have the one from your original engine, in case you need to install it.

If, as you describe above, the engine starts. Does it run on all 4 cylinders while it is started? See what I mean, lack of information leaves us guessing!

[TCMan89]

It seems to run ok when it's started but only last a few seconds of you pump gas pedal it will run a little longer then die..

I was thinking ECU but not sure. I was told ECU runs 2 fuel injectors and other two back and forth. 

[Hemi Dude]

1 hour ago, TCMan89 said:

It seems to run ok when it's started but only last a few seconds of you pump gas pedal it will run a little longer then die..

I was thinking ECU but not sure. I was told ECU runs 2 fuel injectors and other two back and forth. 

I still suspect that you have a FUEL DELIVERY problem from the fuel pump to the fuel rail. I still suspect the fuel pump or some component along the way. Was the fuel filter replaced?

Has someone done a fuel pressure test, which should be 50 - 55 Lb.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Hemi Dude
Reworded reply. (see edit history)

[TCMan89]

Pump is new and yes fuel pressure at rail Is 60 psi 

It seems like Injectors (new btw) are shutting down 

[Hemi Dude]

10 hours ago, TCMan89 said:

Pump is new and yes fuel pressure at rail Is 60 psi 

It seems like Injectors (new btw) are shutting down 

Have you considered the distributor ‘Hall Plate’?

Have you checked for spark to the spark plugs as you crank the engine in attempt to start it after it has run and quit?

Have you recorded the trouble codes which are stored in the ECU?

You need to give us some diagnostic information beyond guesses. 

[TCMan89]

Yes I will see if any codes are stored. I know there is spark as it starts up but will check distributor also.

Thanks for reply..

[TCMan89]

Ok have a fault code 12 

I haven't checked what that is yet 

[Hemi Dude]

1 hour ago, TCMan89 said:

Ok have a fault code 12 

I haven't checked what that is yet 

Battery recently disconnected

[TCMan89]

Yes car sat for 2 years and no battery was in it when I bought it. I've been trying to start car so would any codes come back? 

[mensanguy]

"  car sat for 2 years "  could be your problem.  Have you smelled the gas coming from your injectors, and does it smell like vinegar or worse?  Sounds like some bad/old gas or some gunk & sludge in the fuel system might  be to blame..

 

I would try draining the tank as much as possible with a syphon hose , then adding 5 gals of fresh gas then trying it

 

Couldn't hurt...

Edited October 6, 2022 by mensanguy (see edit history)

[Hemi Dude]

23 hours ago, TCMan89 said:

Yes car sat for 2 years and no battery was in it when I bought it. I've been trying to start car so would any codes come back? 

You sure could be more helpful for ALL of us who are ‘trying’ to help YOU!

So you bought this car with a inoperable (that means “BROKEN” engine) is that correct?

Did you personally replace the engine with another, YOU YOURSELF?

Are you a Certified mechanic or just a guy doing an engine swap on your own car?

Before buying this car, did you know anything about this particular car, engine and operating system?

 

You have been feeding us ‘bits and pieces’ and now we have learned a little about what you and WE are up against.  How about giving us a ‘BLOW BY BLOW’ from the beginning, telling ALL what you did and in the order you did it. You began  thinking you needed to replace the engine controller, a complete “Out of left field remark”

 

And to answer your question above, NO, the codes will not come back but you can set new codes by leaving the battery continually connected, trying to start and possibly run the engine for a short time. If the SMEC sees any problems, it will set new codes you could read and report to us.

 

Many of the people here have years of experience with these particular cars, and if you give US good information as to what you find, we can give you good feedback.  Without that, we are all just guessing.

[TCMan89]

I told you everything I know..I bought car with the engine replaced like I said in begining.

The guy that replaced engine said it only had 30k mi engine 

He didn't get the ECU with the engine. He used his ECU and thought it was bad and replaced it with another.He got engine started but it only starts and then shuts off.

Gas has been sitting in tank for almost 2 years. And I added 5 gallons of premium gas to it when I turn key on fuel pump runs and charges system.when I press shrader valve on fuel line it sprays out but smells a little pungent. Car starts for 2 seconds then just shuts off.fuel pump was replaced by previous owner just couple years ago. 

He said he suspected the ECU was not working correctly. Not firing injectors right.

That's what I know.

Battery was out of car when I got it so no codes are present.

So not sure if maybe ECU needs flashed or? 

Edited October 7, 2022 by TCMan89 (see edit history)

[mensanguy]

Gas has been sitting in tank for almost 2 years --"  when I press shrader valve on fuel line it sprays out but smells a little pungent"

 

Remember what I suggested????

 

Can't tell you how many cars I have worked on which had been "sitting" with bad gas in them started and ran fine when i emptied  the tank and replaced with fresh gas...

Edited October 7, 2022 by mensanguy (see edit history)

[Hemi Dude]

1 hour ago, TCMan89 said:

I told you everything I know..I bought car with the engine replaced like I said in begining.

The guy that replaced engine said it only had 30k mi engine 

He didn't get the ECU with the engine. He used his ECU and thought it was bad and replaced it with another.He got engine started but it only starts and then shuts off.

Gas has been sitting in tank for almost 2 years. Fuel pump was replaced by previous owner just couple years ago. 

He said he suspected the ECU was not working correctly. Not firing injectors right.

That's what I know.

So not sure if maybe ECU needs flashed or? 

It is apparent that neither you or the guy who replaced the engine knows ANYTHING about what is causing the ‘NO START & RUN’ of this vehicles engine. 

FIND A RELIABLE MECHANIC in the part of the country you live in. You haven’t even told us that so we could possibly recommend someone in the area.  Have them diagnose and repair it correctly.

YOU ARE IN OVER YOUR HEAD! 

[TCMan89]

Well I've had these cars before.Its just been 20 years and know about fuel systems.Mechanics shops now days just gouge you or take advantage and lie so.. I always do my own work.If possible.

I just did a fuel pressure check. With key on without starting no charge on gauge.. till I crank motor,then I get up to  almost 50 psi. Drains down very very slowly with ign off So it's strange that pump isn't kicking in till motor cranks and engine starts for a couple secs. I'm going to check the Vs at relay and see what I have at key on and no crank and then while cranking...im sure it's 0 Vs at key on obviously.

I'm still thinking ECU or relay since pump is new.  

[TCMan89]

Just checked auto shut of relay (same as. FP relay on most cars) I jumped the plug to relay #30 to #87 and pump runs 

It shows 50 lbs on gauge but when I disconnect jumper it settles at 45 lbs on gauge 

I ohmed relay between 85 and 86 and it's open 

So I'll get a relay and see what happens 

[TCMan89]

Strange thing is now when I checked relay it now ohms and I hooked up voltage across 85 and 86 the coil and it clicks so I ohmed 30 and 87 and it has ohms with coil engaged.. 

Now I jumpered 30 and 87 goes to fuel pump and it ran continuously and I started car and it ran longer than before 

Till it flooded 

So still thinking ECU..

Don't these ECU's have to be flashed to vin of car to work properly?? 

[Hemi Dude]

OK, here is the ‘Fly in the ointment’, TCMan89 tells me nothing as to who you are or any experience you have with these cars. For all I know, you could have been working on MOPAR automobiles for 70 years.

The ASD relay aka: Auto Shutdown Relay is the term used in the Chrysler nomenclature. So it seems you are actually not a MOPAR experienced Technitian . 

The bleed-down of the pressure regulator to 45lb should not be a concern, though the lack of any pressure showing on the gauge AS YOU TURN ON THE IGNITION TO THE ‘RUN’ POSITION does concern me. It should kick the pressure up from 0 to 50 just by that action. Once the ignition switch is in the ON position and the engine is not being cranked or running, there should NOT be any power to the fuel pump or to the ignition coil and injectors. That is the correct function of the AUTO SHUTDOWN RELAY.

Do we need a lesson on the operation of the ASD Relay? In short, it is designed to turn off power to the fuel pump circuit in case of an accident that causes the engine to quit running. It is a SAFETY device.  Therefore, once you turn on the ignition to RUN, the relay is momentarily powered up and provided 12v to the fuel pump circuit in order to pressurize the fuel rail and injectors in preparation of engine starting.  If you do not follow through and crank the engine, the power to energize the relay is terminated. That disengages power to the pump and all is ‘SAFE’.

You want to try a trick? THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS, therefore the WARNING!

1. BLOCK THE FRONT WHEELS

2. APPLY THE PARKING BRAKE FIRMLY.

3. (read this and understand the process) You are aware that the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH, when functioning as it is designed, will only allow the starter to engage in NEUTRAL and PARK. (Here I do HOPE you have an 8 valve TC with an automatic transaxle) 

4. Sit in the car with the transmission selector in (N). With the key in the ignition, turn the ignition switch to the crank position in an attempt to start the engine WITH YOUR LEFT HAND, while ready with your RIGHT hand to move the selector to (D) as the engine starts WHILE CONTINUING TO HOLD THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE (CRANK) POSITION. If the engine keeps on running rather than dying as you have described, then there would appear to be an open circuit in the ignition “RUN” circuit.  If you have the same results as before, you need to look elsewhere. 

The problem anyone has with diagnosing your TC is that we CANNOT see if this engine replacement has been “butchered” by the installing ‘person’. There is a lot that can be screwed up during an engine replacement, so you may take this advice “with a grain of salt” if you understand that term.

 

You wrote earlier, “He didn't get the ECU with the engine. He used his ECU and thought it was bad and replaced it with another.” You want to explain that more in detail? What do you mean “he used “HIS”? AND what do you mean by “ANOTHER”? 

It seems to me that THERE is where the trouble began, HE screwed up.  I’m tempted to use the “F” word!, but I won’t although you already got the message.

 

 

[Hemi Dude]

16 minutes ago, TCMan89 said:

Strange thing is now when I checked relay it now ohms and I hooked up voltage across 85 and 86 the coil and it clicks so I ohmed 30 and 87 and it has ohms with coil engaged.. 

Now I jumpered 30 and 87 goes to fuel pump and it ran continuously and I started car and it ran longer than before 

Till it flooded 

So still thinking ECU..

Don't these ECU's have to be flashed to vin of car to work properly?? 

NO, these computers are NOT flashable.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Hemi Dude
‘Auto correct’ at work again! (see edit history)

[Hemi Dude]

So now you tell me that it flooded. I have NEVER seen one of the MOPAR fuel injected systems FLOOD. 

Do you want to explain that further?

[Hemi Dude]

I guess I better ask if the SMEC is the correct part number for this application?  Do you know? 

What part number is on the ECU MODULE?

[TCMan89]

I'll try that with the key and gear shifter and see what it does. 

What I mean by switching the ecu's is to make it clear.. after engine change he used his ECU on car and when the car was doing like it is now.. He replaced it with another. ( The one on the car now.

When it did same as before he stopped working on it.(gave up ) then sold it to me.

Now when I say flooded I mean with relay plug jumpered with a wire #30 to #87 pump continues to run and car starts but after a 5 sec interval it does like a car flooded would. Dies..

Here is part number on the replacement ECU (on car now) it's little hard to read.. The original one that was on car has tag missing 

Edited October 7, 2022 by TCMan89 (see edit history)

[TCMan89]

Ok I tried what you said. Car in neutral cranking it over continuous it starts and tries to run. As soon as I put car in drv or rev it stops cranking and dies. 

[Hemi Dude]

46 minutes ago, TCMan89 said:

I'll try that with the key and gear shifter and see what it does. 

What I mean by switching the ecu's is to make it clear.. after engine change he used his ECU on car and when the car was doing like it is now.. He replaced it with another. ( The one on the car now.

When it did same as before he stopped working on it.(gave up ) then sold it to me.

Now when I say flooded I mean with relay plug jumpered with a wire #30 to #87 pump continues to run and car starts but after a 5 sec interval it does like a car flooded would. Dies..

Here is part number on the replacement ECU (on car now) it's little hard to read.. The original one that was on car has tag missing 

Did you read the MESSAGE I sent you , the private message? 

[TCMan89]

Just replied back 

[TCMan89]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:52 PM, mensanguy said:

Gas has been sitting in tank for almost 2 years --"  when I press shrader valve on fuel line it sprays out but smells a little pungent"

 

Remember what I suggested????

 

Can't tell you how many cars I have worked on which had been "sitting" with bad gas in them started and ran fine when i emptied  the tank and replaced with fresh gas...

I think it's a contributor in the problem. Also I think when they replaced motor they didn't put vacuum lines back correctly? 

I checked diagram under good and some are not right.

So maybe that is causing the start then stall? Or Hall on distributor? 

[mensanguy]

i don't want to undermine all off the good advice that has been given on this thread, but do the BASICS first. You have been handed an

(assembled) NIGHTMARE  BASKET CASE! Make sure that the  fuel is fresh, not contaminated by old fuel lingering in the lines.  Start at one point and make sure ALL of the vacuum lines are where they should go. If necessary, ask questions about their destination from the fittings, as referenced from the EPA sticker.  After that, you May want to look at the  hall plate, but i agree with Hemi, You Are In Over Your Head, and need to seek a competent mechanic! 

 

You state "Mechanics shops now days just gouge you or take advantage and lie so.. I always do my own work.If possible."

 

Some do, but ask around, and you will find there are GOOD, COMPETENT shops out there that are well worth what they charge for the accurate, correct diagnosis and repairs they provide.  

They  will save you lots of time and headaches!

[Garnet & Gold]

TCMan89, I don't think I saw it anywhere but where is it you live?

[TCMan89]

Thanks mensanguy I will do that.. I did take hell plate off and clean the two plug connectors. I noticed as I turned distributor timing a bit it ran little longer and actually reved up to 2500 rpms before shutting off.

Is there a way to test the hall plate? 

I love in Tehachapi CA. 40 miles east of Bakersfield and 50 miles from Lancaster CA. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by TCMan89 (see edit history)

[TCMan89]

Ok another thing.the engine that is now in this car is a SOHC not DOHC but the coil pick up( Hell plate)that plugs into the harness has two plugs for DOHC. Wouldn't that be a big problem ? 

[Hemi Dude]

OK TCMan89, So that you are not becoming confused with advice from so many different sources, I'll let the other guys continue this troubleshooting.  Good Luck.

[TCMan89]

Ok well I appreciate your expertise on these cars. And if you think my ECU might be bad then I'd like to know what you have in your arsenal ? 

 

[Hemi Dude]

18 hours ago, TCMan89 said:

Thanks mensanguy I will do that.. I did take hell plate off and clean the two plug connectors. I noticed as I turned distributor timing a bit it ran little longer and actually reved up to 2500 rpms before shutting off.

Is there a way to test the hall plate? 

I love in Tehachapi CA. 40 miles east of Bakersfield and 50 miles from Lancaster CA. 

I might be inclined to drive over some time if we make more progress diagnosing this here. I have used HWY 58 many times when driving to CA. and going to Lancaster, Palmdale and on to points in Ventura County. Have even passed through Tehachapi on my way to Bakersfield.

[TCMan89]

Cool I live just north west of Palmdale and Lancaster 

Thanks