removing a body off the frame

[jp1gt]

I need to take the body off the frame and wondering if you can put some 2x6's wrapped in carpet through the window openings to pick it up. It would be a lot easier but don't know about the strength of the top.

[Xander Wildeisen]

That might be a bad idea.

[keiser31]

If there is a wood structure in that body, I would not recommend it.

[keiser31]

Is that a Cadillac?

[Xander Wildeisen]

I will post pictures of lifting a Auburn body. I would run straps around the body, forcing the doors to say closed. And lifting from underneath with tie down straps. You would want a cart or something to set the body down on.

[Str8-8-Dave]

I did this years ago with a 31 Buick 80 series coupe and got away with putting 2x6s thru open door windows, doors shut and latched and thru open rear windows.  I would suggest all doors shut and latched, more than 2x4s, 2x6 minimum.  I would also suggest a better way to prevent deforming the top of the window openings might be to make some pads that are as long as possible to put under the flat portion of the window frames, I.E. short pieces of 2x6 arranged at right angles to the lifting timbers to spread the load across as much of the window openings as possible.  DO NOT make these long enough to reach to the curved sections of the window openings near the corners or you will overload the window frames at the corners.

 

Make sure all the body bolts are out.  Make sure nothing else like steering column, the speedo cable you forgot to disconnect or wiring become obstacles to a clean lift.

[Guest]

RE. removing a body off the frame.

 

 Dictionary definition of a chain fall;

 

A device used to test the strength of miscellaneous  wires, fuel line and speedometer cable and the last remaining bolt when lifting a car body.  👍

[Barney Eaton]

Definitely do not try lifting it until you are certain the body and frame are separated.    As noted above, there may be wiring, and other things still connected. 

Plus the body has sat on the frame for roughly 90 years and is well seated.   

once you get to the point you can get a 2x between the frame and body,  you will have a good idea if lifting thru the window openings is a good idea.  

good luck

[SC38dls]

I would get 2x4 between the body and frame high enough to get 2x6 under front and rear strongest points side to side . Then lift it high enough going up a little on each side until clear of engine. 
roll frame out and put body on a movable cart. 
Tall Jack stands ready and a guy on each side you can probably lift the front end then do the back. Just be sure the 2x6 are long enough to clear the wheels. I did my 49 Ford F3 pickup cab and 8 foot bed this way by my self, just did it in small steps of each corner going higher. Faster and easier with two guys. Good luck. 
dave s 

Edited September 20, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[John348]

53 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

That might be a bad idea.

agreed!

[1937hd45]

NO! 

[edinmass]

NFW

 

Thats a no. 

[SC38dls]

In case you didn’t know, Ed doesn’t hold back. He tells it like it is! 
dave s 

[1937hd45]

Close coupled sedans are my new favorite body style, what is the history behind this one, what are your long range plans for it? 

[edinmass]

To pick that car up, you need to cross brace it in several places. Also, remove the doors and brace those openings also. Then, and only then, you can lift it up and place 4x4's under it when you get it up off the frame. Then, roll the frame out from under it. If it has bad wood in it......don't even think of lifting it until all the wood is replaced. That thing can twist and warp in ways difficult to predict, and almost imposible to repair. Take your time, do it right. If anything you do while pulling that body is easy......something is wrong. Nice body style. 👍

[DFeeney]

You have received advice from the "Real World Experts" saying not to lift the car by its roof.  The extra time spent bracing before your raise the body will keep the  body  square  and save you much time and fret in the future. Nice project by the way.

[8E45E]

15 minutes ago, DFeeney said:

You have received advice from the "Real World Experts" saying not to lift the car by its roof.  The extra time spent bracing before your raise the body will keep the  body  square  and save you much time and fret in the future. Nice project by the way.

That's the real reason not to; there is NO roof, or 'turret top' to speak of;  just a perimeter of stamped sheet metal connecting the six pillars which may not be strong enough to support the body with all four doors hanging from it, and the interior seats and hardware still in place!!

 

Craig

[60FlatTop]

The only point I lift at is the front or firewall mounts. I put a 4x4 post from the floor to ceiling cross tie or rafter for support.

 

On the sides or at the rear I lift at body mount points. I have done this on a few cars. When the body is off the frame the doors are never opened and very little if any work is planned for the body. On this Riviera the only thing I did on the body was change the heater core.

 

The Riviera is an X-frame car so there is a lot of side rail strength built in. The average life of a late 1920's car was about 5 to 7 years. It is a bit frail.

 

Think back. My memory tells me the only time people have asked me questions was when they thought they were getting into trouble. Otherwise they march boldly forward. You didn't think that lifting idea was a good one did you?

 

You are risking your car.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Looks like you have a two post lift in your shop. A must have for a one man operation. This way might not be an option? This is a all steel body, best way to lift in my opinion. Getting to the Auburn pictures.

[Xander Wildeisen]

So much depends on what you are going to do with the body once it is removed. If you are going to take it all apart for restoration. Do it now on the frame. If you are wanting to remove it, and then place it back on the frame, you have a few choices. Again, depends on what you want to do with the body while it is off. If any major repair is going to be done while off. Pulling the doors and adding bracing would be you best bet. As other have mentioned. That will allow access to the areas needing repair. If you want to remove the body and place it right back on. I would leave the doors on, shim the gaps in the door jams. And wrap some straps around different parts of the body. If you do it this way, I would not unstrap anything while the body is off. Some Home Depot wood door shims will fill the gaps in the door jams in between the doors and the pillars. A strap around your front hinges, and the rear hinges. Will draw everything together. A strap around the base of the windshield pillar, and through the rear door window opening. Will also draw everything together. A strap around the fire wall and the rear body, on the body lines. Will draw it together. This way you are using the the body to support it's self by not allowing it to flex, or open up. It is going to move a little, based on the condition of what you are dealing with. You have to make that call. Once strapped up, and disconnected. I would use the lift arms under your lower front door hinge. This is also a call based on condition of the body. You can bump up the lift enough to place a piece of a  2x4 under the body. And run a strap under the 2x4, and across to the other side. Lower the body on the strap and the 2x4. Do the same on the rear of the body. Lifting up just enough to get the block under the body with a strap. The wood block will keep the strap from smashing the lower part of the body. The straps will also wrap/lay over the transmission and frame. Drawing tight as it is lifted. Best lifting points are under your door pillars, front, middle and rear. When strapping it up, get all of your straps in place. And tighten up together. You do no have to really draw it down hard. Should become pretty solid, if the body is in decent condition. You know what you are dealing with. No matter what you do, extra care and a few more hours spent in prep work. Might save you a lot of foul words and heavy drinking. If it goes smooth, you can still do the heavy drinking. This Auburn body was rotten. Lower rocker area was gone. Straps around the hinges side to side pulled the body together. Lift supported the rear body, Strap supported the front cowl. You are the only one that knows what you are dealing with condition wise. And what you want or need to do with the body while removed. Nobody's comments on here are steering you wrong. 

[alsancle]

When removing a wood framed body from a chassis you need to build an internal jig that reinforces the structure in every direction.   Maybe an extra 200lbs of metal inside attached at every angle to keep the body from flexing.

 

Even when completely reinforced,  I have never seen a wood framed body go back on a chassis and have any of the doors still fit.  It takes a lot of work to get it back to where the doors are right.

[Xander Wildeisen]

7 minutes ago, alsancle said:

When removing a wood framed body from a chassis you need to build an internal jig that reinforces the structure in every direction.   Maybe an extra 200lbs of metal inside attached at every angle to keep the body from flexing.

 

Even when completely reinforced,  I have never seen a wood framed body go back on a chassis and have any of the doors still fit.  It takes a lot of work to get it back to where the doors are right.

No doubt that is the best way of going.

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

When removing a wood framed body from a chassis you need to build an internal jig that reinforces the structure in every direction.   Maybe an extra 200lbs of metal inside attached at every angle to keep the body from flexing.

 

Even when completely reinforced,  I have never seen a wood framed body go back on a chassis and have any of the doors still fit.  It takes a lot of work to get it back to where the doors are right.

I remember odd things, think it was Tiny Gould that never removed the body from his J Duesenberg because the doors fit so well and he knew it would cost a fortune in labor to regain that fit once the shims and webbing was replaced. Keep track of all the shims, washers, and chassis webbing, it will help when you start from scratch refitting the doors. If you have to rewood the body you are starting a new ball game. NUMBER THE DOOR HINGES before you remove them!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 21, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

You're getting a fair shake here. Best advice seen above is to do the wod repairs now. You have the perfect fixture to align to. Once it's all done you still want to brace the body. I tack up ¾ X ¾ box tube with tabs for small deck screws. Always best to lift at the main sills. 

[ericmac]

I am preparing to remove the body of a 1926 Ford Fordor sedan. This thread has offered the best real-world advice I have seen in some time. I greatly appreciate the OP question and all of the well considered answers.

[1937hd45]

42 minutes ago, ericmac said:

I am preparing to remove the body of a 1926 Ford Fordor sedan. This thread has offered the best real-world advice I have seen in some time. I greatly appreciate the OP question and all of the well considered answers.

The 1926-27 Tudor was all steel, it was January 21, 1967 I was 16 and took the body off all by myself, is the Fordor a wood framed body? 

[ericmac]

6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

The 1926-27 Tudor was all steel, it was January 21, 1967 I was 16 and took the body off all by myself, is the Fordor a wood framed body? 

Yes, the 26-27 Fordor, a holdover from the 23-25 bodies is the last of the composite metal over wood Ford bodies. It was built for Ford by Budd. Among the differences from other 26-7 Fords is it is the last Model T with the gastank under the seat. I love your photo. Oh the things we did when we were young!

[jp1gt]

19 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Close coupled sedans are my new favorite body style, what is the history behind this one, what are your long range plans for it? 

I am going to sell the body. I need the undercarriage. I have it advertised for 2500 but everybody that wants it are too far away! I think the straps between the posts are the way to go. I have the body loose from the frame, soe when the person who buys it can just back the trailer under it. unless it is enclosed of course. I guess I would have to make a wood crib with some wheels. I really appreciate all the help.

Edited September 21, 2022 by jp1gt (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

You would want to make a cart with caster wheels to place the body on. Same flat surface as your frame. Strap up the body and secure it by bolting it down on the cart. You might also consider just parting the body. Investing your time and money in something that has a known value. Will hit a point where you are going backwards in something that you do not want. 

[jp1gt]

I am sorry I put the wrong pic, this is what it looks like now

[1912Staver]

I have a spare Cadillac 314 rolling chassis. Pacific North West. It's going cheap and a lot easier than building a dolly for the body.

[SC38dls]

What’s your plan for the undercarriage? Another body? A non-body use or a rat rod? 
dave s 

[jp1gt]

I am restoring a 29 341 phaeton that was taken apart in the 60's and missing some parts. Believe it or not all of this was in pieces in a attic/mezzanine  I would have liked to buy a complete rolling chassis. the one I got is real complete. I guess the body will be turned into a really cool ratrod.

[1937hd45]

Projects like this were common in the 1970's, good luck with yours. Where are you located, both Cadillacs look far better that old East Coast stuff. Bob 

[jp1gt]

the cars are from CA. the sedan just has surface rust on the body. the phaeton has NO rust on the body

[Soupiov]

This is how I did it myself with just a floor jack raising each corner a little at a time until i got it high enough to roll the chassis out.  This is the body back up the same way waiting for the chassis to be rolled back under the body.  I was able to roll my trailer under it to transport it for painting and as an added benefit I was able to do almost all of the body/paint prep with the body in this position making the work a lot easier

[jp1gt]

The straps worked perfect! A guy is supposed to buy it and has an enclosed trailer. I am going to pick up some 2x12s to go across the body and put these caster under them to roll it in the trailer. Thanks for the ideas--

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by jp1gt (see edit history)

[jp1gt]

The wood on this body is like brand new. I have to replace some on the phaeton. Is there a thread about how to replace the wood that touches the frame anywhere?

[chistech]

We’ll I don’t know how I’ve been able to pull over 15 closed car wood bodies as I have by running a 2x10 through the closed doors with padding on the top of the board going by what I’ve read here and not had total catastrophies every time I attempted it. I guess I’ve just been lucky over a dozen times. Now I realize if the wood is all rotted it’s not a wise decision but on a decent condition car I’ve had not one single issue. There are other things to note but I’m not going to go year by year and which bodies you shouldn’t do it with. But of course, if one can’t evaluate the cars integrity then he’d better stay out of the garage anyway. I can say this because I’ve actually done it, and many times. Done Chevys, Buicks, and pontiacs all the same way putting the bodies onto my rotisserie. You can actually pickup a roadster or cabriolet by running a 2x10 under the dash and parcel tray. Yup, done than twice with not a single problem or ANY damage. I rebuild these wood bodied cars, understand the way they’re constructed, and the sheet metal is the lightest part about them. The metal, if nailed decently into the existing wood, while really just a covering, helps keep things from moving any also but the bodies on the average are not heavy. The wood is incredibly strong and you can come to my shop and see a cabriolet that’s only about half done. The wood framework doesn’t budge a quarter inch with no metal on it and is incredibly strong. I believe people underestimate the strength of wood judging by what I read on this forum. I see topics about wheels or wood bodied cars and posters always seem to mention how inferior it is. Those wood bodies 50-100 years prior were making trips across this US when there were no roads. Yes, I mean wagons and stage coaches, made of that weak wood and some with metal covering. Next thing people will say how inferior wood boats are, and I don’t have to mention how they were used throughout the years of history! 

Now none of the cars  I did by the roof were big long bodied but the big car I had to do, I lifted the front up and ran a 2x6 under the cowl about 10” back. Then I got the rear of the body up and did the same. Rolled the car under my lift, adjusted the arms to line up with the plank ends, clamped the plank ends to the lift pads with C-clamps,(many never think about clamping the planks so they don’t fall or get knocked off. Perhaps we can start another topic on why planks should never be used on a lift’s pads) and then raised the body. To start the body up, I would go across the sills inside the frame and use a floor jack until I could get the body up enough to block it at the mounts to allow the 2x6 to pass under. 
     I see many here make blanket statements in the forums  that just aren’t always true. From matching serial numbers not being  on a car prior to the sixties when I own the same make of car with matching numbers from the thirties to comments telling me I was wrong about biodiesel when I’ve blended and cooked my own going back forty years and still run it occasionally, getting it from a guy I taught how to make it! I guess I wouldn’t even need diesel if I didn’t own one of those converted gas GM engines called a 6.2 that are pieces of junk and blow up all the time! Yes, another typical, completely untrue, and incorrect comment made by diesel forum experts on the GM 6.2 diesel. I’ve run them for years and my worst one let go at 230k! I’ve even had experts on hunting forums tell me I don’t know how to dress a deer properly when I used to butcher more animals in one day than many hunters will kill in a lifetime. And then when you call the experts out on their statements, they become silent! I state my comments because I’ve done it. While I’m sure many here have done things and base their comments on those experiences also, (evidently, in the case on this topic, something was done wrong or went wrong), I don’t believe based on my own experiences, a yes or no blanket comment is correct for most questions. I also believe many here go by what others say (I actually see that too often)or what they’ve heard through the years and repeat it as truth never attempting it themselves, never having actual experience, or trying to figure out how to get it done personally. I think I’m better off staying in the restoration forums and post what I actually do as these other forums seem to get my goat. It’s no surprise society is as screwed up as it is these days, everyone is a something or another.

[edinmass]

 Done Chevys, Buicks, and pontiacs all the same way………..

 

All small light weight production cars that are probably half the weight and a 40 percent smaller than a Cadillac…….and the construction is significantly different than the large coachbuit cars. (Small cars construction is oftentimes better than the coachbuilt stuff.)Toss in the condition of the wood on the car the poster pictured…………and picking it up the way you suggest isn’t a good idea……..frankly is really a poor idea. Having pulled dozens of bodies off frames from cars dated 1929-1938 and ALL of them were Pierce/Cadillac/Duesenberg/Rolls, ect……………I wouldn’t even consider it. That said there are countless ways to go at restoring a car………….many different approaches, and often times everything works out fine. One thing is for certain, in 50 years of restoring cars and spending more time in shops than I can describe, I have never seen a professional shop lift a car as you describe…….never. 
 

I give you credit for speaking up even though I strongly disagree with you……..something not often seen today……..so as gentlemen and reasonable people, we can agree to disagree. And I also agree with your analysis that many/most people who give advice have never done the job…….

Edited September 26, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)