MrFreeze Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Hello everybody. I bought my first Buick yesterday after a fairly length search - 1964 Riviera. Just got it home today. Pic attached because who doesn't like pics? I'm mainly posting to say hello. This car is in pretty good shape, but of course it needs a lot of little things because it's 58 years old. Before I unleash a barrage a questions I wanted to start by asking what are the best manuals & reference guides to have for this vehicle? Most of my prior automotive experience has been with Mustangs, so I have a bit of a learning curve here. Plans are to basically make it a bit safer for modern roads and drive it is much as I can. Initial list includes new suspension bushings (rubber looks to be original and is pretty chewy), front disk brakes with somewhat bigger wheels and tires, and a dual-reservoir master cylinder. Might need to deal with a leak or two, first. And get the AC working again - system looks to be complete, but charge has been lost, so there is a leak somewhere. Thanks in advance for any advice. Best regards, MrFreeze 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Welcome, good looking rivi! Best manuals in my opinion is the Buick FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS. Have fun ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71GS Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Welcome and congrats, I second the factory service manuals. Also join the ROA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Welcome! Beautiful car. Please add a location to your profile. You never know, there may be another member near you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedeDownUnderR63 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 You need both the body and chassis service manuals for your -64. I have both the paper and the CD (pdf) versions for my -63 that both are useful (in my view). they are available on eBay and from vendors directly. Here is one example from Rockauto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Hey Mr Freeze lots of useful knowledge here with these guys who know their Rivs I have been using the manuals that came with the car which is what they have suggested to you only comment I make is i will be buying the cd as the electrical circuit diagrams are testing my eyesight so think on screen will help!! Enjoy the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Unless you’re towing a trailer down long hills, disk brakes are not necessary. The Buick finned aluminum drums are more than sufficient. The dual reservoir master cylinder is a good upgrade. The Riviera Owners Assn is a great tool for restoration. Tech advisors, a magazine with a large classified section, and a web site with a Tech Tips section. (Here’s where you’ll find the step by step for installing a dual master cylinder. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Agreed........the giant drum brakes on your car have more stopping power than disc brakes, and in addition the pedal travel is a lot less. Contrary to popular belief, often when a dual master cylinder goes empty due to a leak in the system, there are no brakes at all.....I've seen it many times. I go with my single master and check the fluid level regularly, and I have a fully operational emergency brake if needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 Thanks for the service manual advice, gentlemen. I will be ordering body and chassis manuals momentarily. I am aware that the first gen Riv's had excellent drum brakes, but I have some things working against me here: 1. Current single bowl MC is leaking 2. Current front drums are not aluminum, but cast iron reproductions (and it appears that the aluminum drums are no longer available?) 3. PO ground much of the fin material off of the front drums in order to make the new wheels work (it looks like something I would have done 30 years ago when I was young and dumb) Given that I need a new MC and new drums anyway, it seemed sensible to change over to front disks. But I am always willing to listen to anyone who wants to talk me OUT of spending $$. So given my situation, what would you guys suggest? My plans for the future do include some lengthy road trips, with the inevitable mountain passes, so keep that in mind - this is not going to be a car show princess. Here's a pic of the butchered front drum. Best regards, MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Oh no! Aluminum drums do come up for sale; I actually saw a worn set at a swap meet this past weekend. I'd keep my eyes peeled for some. Check Ebay and here: https://forums.aaca.org/forum/12-buick-buysell/. NOS are tough to find and expensive - but cheaper than a disk brake conversion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Beautiful car. I will start with a question. How attached are you to the wheels? I have been there, done that on my 63. Dual MC in good working order made a HUGE difference in stopping my car. Disc brakes were on my list, but moved we down on it after. Find used aluminum drums and either add a spacer behind the wheel or if you plan to change them anyway, check backspacing and diameter before you buy new ones. I went with 17s, so I did not have this issue. Your car, your decisions, but the dual MC should be at the top of any lists made, especially if yours is leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 As @Seafoam65 said above, adding a dual circuit master cylinder will not improve the brake performance under normal circumstances and doesn't guarantee that you'll have the ability to safely stop the car if there is a failure. I'm not against adding the dual circuit system, but just want to set the expectation... When these cars were used as daily drivers in the snow-belt states (like here in NY) it was common to have a brake line rust through in five or six years. A dual circuit system can maintain minimum stopping performance in that case. The line to the rear wheels in my '04 Silverado failed a few years ago and I still had to shift to neutral at every stop in order to limp home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 16 hours ago, Seafoam65 said: Agreed........the giant drum brakes on your car have more stopping power than disc brakes, and in addition the pedal travel is a lot less. Contrary to popular belief, often when a dual master cylinder goes empty due to a leak in the system, there are no brakes at all.....I've seen it many times. I go with my single master and check the fluid level regularly, and I have a fully operational emergency brake if needed. I have the original single on my 65 too. No problems so far, stops well. I dont hot rod the car so that may be a factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) Welcome to the Riviera family! Please consider joining the Riviera Owners Assn. (www.rivowner.org). If you prefer real paper shop and body manuals instead of CD/DVD versions, watch ebay for "1964 (Buick, Fisher) Manual". You will surely find listings for used chassis and body manuals. Personally I prefer a book I can thumb through or set on the fender while I am working on the car. Also, if you have other questions you need answers to, please consider searching this forum first because your questions have probably already been asked and answered (several times! 🙂). If you don't find the answers you are looking for, fire away with your questions. Enjoy the ride and the experience of Riviera ownership! Edited September 13, 2022 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 13 hours ago, steelman said: Beautiful car. I will start with a question. How attached are you to the wheels? I have been there, done that on my 63. Dual MC in good working order made a HUGE difference in stopping my car. Disc brakes were on my list, but moved we down on it after. Find used aluminum drums and either add a spacer behind the wheel or if you plan to change them anyway, check backspacing and diameter before you buy new ones. I went with 17s, so I did not have this issue. Your car, your decisions, but the dual MC should be at the top of any lists made, especially if yours is leaking. The wheels 100% have to go - IMO they are not appropriate for the look of the car. At least, not the look i want. Planning for what I think of as "Magnum 500" style wheels, hopefully in a large diameter. Mind sharing what size 17" wheels and ties you went with? Or even a pic maybe? I'm thinking about a 225 width would look appropriate on this size car, but I don't want to shrink down to a rubber band sized sidewall. I'll keep an eye out for aluminum drums, still not decided what to do there - would appreciate input from anyone else who has faced this decision. Here's a pic of the type wheels I mean - these are on my Mustang, but I believe I have seen essentially the same wheel on early Buicks with different center caps. Best regards, MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 The wheels on the Mustang are pretty close to the stock Buick Rally wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 17 hours ago, MrFreeze said: The wheels 100% have to go - IMO they are not appropriate for the look of the car. At least, not the look i want. Planning for what I think of as "Magnum 500" style wheels, hopefully in a large diameter. Mind sharing what size 17" wheels and ties you went with? Or even a pic maybe? I'm thinking about a 225 width would look appropriate on this size car, but I don't want to shrink down to a rubber band sized sidewall. I'll keep an eye out for aluminum drums, still not decided what to do there - would appreciate input from anyone else who has faced this decision. Here's a pic of the type wheels I mean - these are on my Mustang, but I believe I have seen essentially the same wheel on early Buicks with different center caps. Best regards, MrFreeze I like and wanted a tall tire. I like the slightly larger wheels, but didn’t want “rubber bands”. My fronts are 235/55/17 on 17x7 wheels with 3 5/8 back spacing. Rears are 255/55/17 on 17x8 wheels with the same 3 5/8 backspacing. Fronts will rub slightly in a hard, full lock turn. I try to avoid those situations. In all my pictures, I have none of this car at ride height. All are dropped with the bags fully deflated. Maybe this will give you an idea on wheel size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65VerdeGS Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your new '64 Riviera - sharp looking car! I see you're in Seattle. I bought my '65 in Seattle from someone who lived near NE 45th Street, by the University of Washington. If you ever get up to BC let me know. I'm in Vancouver and would be happy to meet you and talk Buicks, especially Rivieras! Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K. Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 + 1 on swapping for a set Buick Road Wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 The man who designed the Buick Formula Five/Rally wheels/Road wheels also designed all the chromed wheels for GM/Ford/Chrysler/AMC. He ALSO designed the Motor Wheel Spyders of which I have a set. Could be talked into selling IF the $$$ are right. Comes with NOS CORRECT lugs nuts & looks to be NOS center caps. 15x5x6 Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Nice Riviera......... if you are not aware, the Buick Club of Amarica national meet will be in Spokane next July 12-15 Hope to see you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 16 hours ago, Paul K. said: + 1 on swapping for a set Buick Road Wheels. Are "Buick Road Wheels" different from "Buick Rally Wheels"? Can anyone point me to where those can be purchased in a 5 on 5 pattern? Best regards, MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Originally they were marketed as Formula Five Wheels. All of the road/rally wheels for the large bodies are 5 on 5. The intermediate bodied car came with 5 on 4.75” wheels but thos have a definite two piece structure and most came in 14” diameter, except for a few 15x 7” wheels which came on the performance GS Skylark models. When buying 15” x 6” 5 on 5 wheels you need to take into consideration what year your car is because the wheels came in three builds. The number 802 wheel fits only drum brake cars without modifications, the 853 fits both disk and drum brake cars, and the 895 wheel, 1971 - 1978 has a different offset and back spacing and may not fit over the fins on the aluminum drums and because of the backspacing may have some chassis interference problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjp69 Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Nice looking car, did you buy it at Park Place Motors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 22 hours ago, RivNut said: Originally they were marketed as Formula Five Wheels. All of the road/rally wheels for the large bodies are 5 on 5. The intermediate bodied car came with 5 on 4.75” wheels but thos have a definite two piece structure and most came in 14” diameter, except for a few 15x 7” wheels which came on the performance GS Skylark models. When buying 15” x 6” 5 on 5 wheels you need to take into consideration what year your car is because the wheels came in three builds. The number 802 wheel fits only drum brake cars without modifications, the 853 fits both disk and drum brake cars, and the 895 wheel, 1971 - 1978 has a different offset and back spacing and may not fit over the fins on the aluminum drums and because of the backspacing may have some chassis interference problems. Thanks for the useful info. Do you know where these wheels can be purchased? MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 20 hours ago, cjp69 said: Nice looking car, did you buy it at Park Place Motors? Yes I did - after about a month of on/off negotiations. Are you in the Seattle area as well? MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 5:37 AM, Barney Eaton said: Nice Riviera......... if you are not aware, the Buick Club of Amarica national meet will be in Spokane next July 12-15 Hope to see you there. Thanks for the tip - I have it on my calendar. Spokane is a nice drive from Seattle (at long as it is not winter), so good excuse for a road trip. MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, MrFreeze said: Thanks for the useful info. Do you know where these wheels can be purchased? MrFreeze All of these wheels will be originals. You can find them on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, etc. The ROA publishes a bi-monthly magazine, the RIVIEW, in which there’s a big classified section where you can sell, purchase or run an ad for Want to Buy. There’s no real magic answer. You might even post a WTB on this forum. Just make sure you’re as educated as you can be when purchasing. Know what you want and do not accept anything but. Lots of sellers advertise all Riviera parts as “fits all.” Ain’t so. If you find a set, which would be five wheels and four center caps, there are companies that can rechrome the wheels. You can buy excellent reproduction caps @ www.buickcenters.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 You need to be careful when purchasing the Rally Wheels as at least 80% of them are bent from hitting curbs, rough/inattentive handling on tire machines, etc. No way you can tell by a pic until they are mounted on the balancing machine. By that time it's too late & it will be costly to return ship them even IF the seller is willing to take them back unless of course you can pick them up local. These Motor Wheel Spyders are as close to NOS that you can get & they were an option on all the GM lines. Reason you don't see them that often is exactly that, they were an option most/many didn't want to pay extra for. Do a Google search to see what they look like. I know you & others will like them & you'll most likely be the only one at a show to have a set, but they are GM correct. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71GS Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I always thought those motor wheels were so rare because they were recalled for cracking or something? I also never knew there was any relation to GM. First I’ve heard of that. Cool wheels though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjp69 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 21 hours ago, MrFreeze said: Yes I did - after about a month of on/off negotiations. Are you in the Seattle area as well? MrFreeze Yes, I am in Kent. And a few weeks ago I was at a Sunday cruise-in in Renton, and spoke with the guy who had consigned it at Park Place (I had my 65 at the cruise-in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 14 hours ago, 71GS said: I always thought those motor wheels were so rare because they were recalled for cracking or something? I also never knew there was any relation to GM. First I’ve heard of that. Cool wheels though Brian, you can't scoop-them-up. You blew your budget on those awesome Skylarks!😃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFreeze Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 hours ago, cjp69 said: Yes, I am in Kent. And a few weeks ago I was at a Sunday cruise-in in Renton, and spoke with the guy who had consigned it at Park Place (I had my 65 at the cruise-in). Interesting! Did you happen to get any details or history about the car? MrFreeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71GS Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 7 hours ago, XframeFX said: Brian, you can't scoop-them-up. You blew your budget on those awesome Skylarks!😃 File those under, best. score. ever. 😁😁😁did I tell ya I have one in the trunk too? 😎 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, 71GS said: did I tell ya I have one in the trunk too? Argh, too cool! You're killing me with all the eye candy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kblake Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Welcome! Great choice in your first Buick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjp69 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 13 hours ago, MrFreeze said: Interesting! Did you happen to get any details or history about the car? MrFreeze Not much, I think he said he had bought it along with a couple of other cars, and it sounded like he was just flipping it. He had an El Camino at the cruise in that he also had for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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