Transmission Gear Oil

[1919 Touring]

  What brand and weight gear oil do you guys recommend for a 1919 Touring Car?  Do not know when it was when that was last changed, and does the differential take the same fluid?  Can't seem to find that info in the Book of Information.  Thanks in advance for the responses.

[nearchoclatetown]

1919, steam cylinder oil is what should be used both places. It is still used on steam tractors and locomotives, not very hard to find. Google a local dealer. Make sure you specify steam cylinder, it is not gear oil. Old DBers say a screw driver should stand up in the oil. The thicker the better. I have known some to blend in a tube of grease to thicken the oil if necessary. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by nearchoclatetown (see edit history)

[1919 Touring]

Thanks for the info.

[1919 Touring]

  Found the proper 600 W oil and have ordered it.  Now,  here is the biggy!  Where is the fill hole?  I already have checked the Book of Info & the Mechanics book.  I see the drain plug, but where does the oil go to fill it?  There is a plate that says to fill to this level, but there are (5) bolts holding that plate and no reference to fill to.

[Minibago]

The oil is poured in via the small plate held by two bolts on the top of the box.

 

Access is gained by lifting the floor boards.

 

 

Either one of the bolts in line with the “to this level” is to be removed temporarily.

The level is full when the oil runs out of the bolt hole, refit the bolt.

Too much oil will cause frothing (not desirable)

 

 

[Minibago]

This is the transmission oil I use.

Advances have been made in oils in the last 100 years so 600wt steam oil is not necessarily the best option.

 

 

 

[1919 Touring]

  Why was that not explained in any of the (2) books I read.  I saw that plate, but thought, "naw", I cant see thru metal, so that's not right.  Wow!!!  Thank goodness for this forum,  

[Mark Gregush]

Yes, thanks for the hint about taking one of the bolts out when filling. So, the fitting with square head on other side is for checking or filling from under car with pump. I too take the top plate inspection plate off to refill. 

[Minibago]

That plate is the reverse idler gear.

The early 12 tooth idler has a flat plate.

The later 13 tooth has the bulge.

 

[Minibago]

The Penrite gear oil is specifically designed to suit the veteran and vintage cars and notes in the specifications that it is not harmful to ferrous and to non ferrous metals.

[nearchoclatetown]

Ok 1919, here is what I have found tonight. I had the chance to see an amount of original DB gear oil in an original can tonight. Leaning the can over it took a LONG time before the "oil" moved. It is thicker then the corn head grease I use in steering boxes. The sample of original steering Lube was actually more fluid. I intend to find someone, an oilologist? that can analyze what's in it to give a modern equivalent. 

[Grimy]

In my (substantial) experience, 600W / steam cylinder oil thickens considerably with time, so I change it at 12-15 years.  I have seen some stuff that was in a trans for decades that was almost tar-like.  All this does not imply that the DB oil was in fact 600W or that it was not that thick when produced--but I hazard an educated guess that's the case.

[1919 Touring]

Thanks again for the info.  I ended up ordering 600W oil from Mac's.  It is about the consistency of STP oil treatment I used to use back in the day.

[nearchoclatetown]

Grimy, I understand that some oils can thicken or thin over time. The mysterious cup grease had separated with a layer of oil on top of the grease. Everyone asks why it is called cup grease. I think it is because you fill the grease cups with it, nothing special about it. What I am interested in knowing about the gear oil is chemical composition, whether there are any secrets in which dinosaurs were used.  

[Grimy]

40 minutes ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Grimy, I understand that some oils can thicken or thin over time. The mysterious cup grease had separated with a layer of oil on top of the grease. Everyone asks why it is called cup grease. I think it is because you fill the grease cups with it, nothing special about it. What I am interested in knowing about the gear oil is chemical composition, whether there are any secrets in which dinosaurs were used.  

Agree with chemical composition issue but there have been some threads on which modern lubricants of similar consistency might be better.  Sorry I don't have those accessible.  Hope we can find better dinosaurs!  🙂

[Mark Gregush]

16 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Grimy, I understand that some oils can thicken or thin over time. The mysterious cup grease had separated with a layer of oil on top of the grease. Everyone asks why it is called cup grease. I think it is because you fill the grease cups with it, nothing special about it. What I am interested in knowing about the gear oil is chemical composition, whether there are any secrets in which dinosaurs were used.  

yes, the ones with green leaves on them!

[Minibago]

All oils, fuels and greases are a blend of ingredients and will degrade over time hence the recommendation for periodic changeout.

All oils, fuels and greases.

Every 12 to 15 years is simply bad maintenance however you look at it.

 

By their very nature the combination elements can (will) either separate and / or have various component parts evaporate, we are dealing with a combination of chemicals after all.

 

These lubricants and fuels also collect dirt and absorb moisture which can cause blockages (sludge) and corrosion.

 

It is not sound engineering practice to judge the correct viscosity by “standing a screwdriver up and timing the fall”

 

Steam oil is designed to function in very high temperatures but also in very wet environments so steam oil is not the correct oil for the DB gearbox.

The 600wt refers to the viscocity and the modern equivalent is SAE 250

 

Simple really.

[1919 Touring]

So am I understanding correct that 600 wt oil is wrong for these cars?  And I thought today's equivalent had chemicals that would harm the older alloy metals.  (SAE250)  I'm confused.  I know that the Ford Model T's call for the 600 wt. 

[Minibago]

600wt oil is correct.

The one made / sold by Macs is fine.

600wt STEAM oil is incorrect

SAE 250 as in the Penrite is a modern oil specifically designed for older gearboxes but with the correct viscocity and no bad additives.

Yes, some modern gearbox oils (not equivalent) do have bad additives.

Temperature and speed of rotation have a bearing here (Pun intended)

Ford model T’s recommend changing the oil every 1,000 miles.

WOW!

We really like to over think these things don’t we?

 

 

[Mark Gregush]

Edited September 22, 2022 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I hate to be contrary here, but 600W in steam oil never did refer to viscosity, and probably referred to the flash point in Fahrenheit. Today it is a brand of steam oil owned by Mobil. You can buy some if you like, Today they offer it in two different viscosities.

 

Steam oil was used commonly in transmissions up until the mid 1930s at least, and probably longer in older cars. It was pretty thick. SAE 250 is indeed likely the closest equivalent. I am not arguing for (or against) the use of 600W.

 

Eating brass is a separate issue. Pick one that is safe for "yellow metals". When you pick something, read the datasheet. That Penrite stuff @Minibago posted looks good. For those looking for Penrite products in the US, Restoration Supply (of California) is the place.

 

 

[Minibago]

Hi Doug,

 

Here is a bit of information on cup grease for you.

 

[Bloo]

Thank you for posting that! I too though it just meant "what you put in a grease cup" but I still always wondered what the composition was. So it's Calcium based then. That's good to know. Similar to water pump grease maybe?

[Minibago]

🤔

[Minibago]

[Minibago]

Don’t hit me.

I will stop now.

 

🫣

[Bloo]

On what scale though?

 

600W most likely predates all of them because it comes from the age of steam. Somewhere I have a datasheet for current Mobil steam cylinder oil. I am on a road trip though, so can't just post it. There are four Steam Cylinder oils on the sheet. Two are branded "600W" and two are not. If I remember correctly, one of the "600W" oils is ISO 460 in viscosity and the other is unspecified. The other 2 were thicker, but not branded "600W". The ISO viscosity scale refers to a specific viscosity. The SAE scale does not. They don't line up.

 

 

Ok, I'll stop now too... 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[JohnMcK]

K, opinions, please. I need to flush my tranny and have read lots of posts here and in other forums about the proper oil to use in these old DB gear boxes. Mine is a '25 Depot Wagon. I'm down to 2 options based on everything I've read - Penrite Transoil 250 or Meropa 1500 Gear Oil, both are available from Restoration Supply Company and listed in their downloadable catalog HERE. Any opinions? Thanks in advance. John

[gossp]

2 minutes ago, JohnMcK said:

K, opinions, please. I need to flush my tranny and have read lots of posts here and in other forums about the proper oil to use in these old DB gear boxes. Mine is a '25 Depot Wagon. I'm down to 2 options based on everything I've read - Penrite Transoil 250 or Meropa 1500 Gear Oil, both are available from Restoration Supply Company and listed in their downloadable catalog HERE. Any opinions? Thanks in advance. John

I would just get one of the two oils myers or Romar offer based on them both being used successfully in a whole lot of dodges. I got the 600 and am happy. Same oil for the rear end. 

[RichBad]

Both will be fine to use, use whichever one is easiest for you to get.

[Mattml430]

I use the T250 some morey’s  and half a tube of grease. Just to add to the confusion. Very happy with the way mine changes gear. 

[Minibago]

I too am a fan of Moreys.

[Minibago]

Lucas oil stabiliser is very similar and made in the USA

[Mpgp1999]

I have been using this for years in transmissions requiring 1500w. 
 

https://buysinopec.com/collections/all/products/ep-lithium-grease-extreme-pressure-grease-ep000-5-gallon-pail

 

[22touring]

I think I am going to keep using LUB 164 in my '22 tourer because I have been quite happy with it.

[Benno75]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:32 PM, Mattml430 said:

I use the T250 some morey’s  and half a tube of grease. Just to add to the confusion. Very happy with the way mine changes gear. 

What type of grease do you use Matt? I’m finding the T250 on its own is way too thin

[Mattml430]

9 hours ago, Benno75 said:

What type of grease do you use Matt? I’m finding the T250 on its own is way too thin

I just use a non synthetic bearing grease. I put a full grease gun tube in the gearbox. It’s also the easiest way to get it in there if you don’t have access through the top easy enough.