For Sale: 1940 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet - $70,000 - Birmingham, OH - Not Mine

[58L-Y8]

For Sale: 1940 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet - $70,000 - Birmingham, OH

1940 Lincoln Zephyr - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle automotive... (craigslist.org)
Seller's Description:

Restored, rebuilt, reconditioned. Original V12, three speed on the column, two speed rear end. Complete Leather interior replaced, and carpet replaced. Vintage Era Automobile. odometer: 48000
Contact: Thomas Zaborowski call or text: (325) 8-two-9-2-8-zero-9

Copy and paste in your email: df7befd8243337faac9208967e8e60f0@sale.craigslist.org

I have no personal interest or stake in the eventual sale of this 1940 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet

The Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1805-1942, Edited by Kimes and Clark states 350 1940 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet built for 1940.

Note: The 1940 Lincoln Continentals did not have lower chrome trim until late in the model year and the "Lincoln" script on the right-side cowl shouldn't be there.

[Brooklyn Beer]

What was the main selling point of a V12? Looks really good in the engine bay for sure

[58L-Y8]

24 minutes ago, Brooklyn Beer said:

What was the main selling point of a V12? Looks really good in the engine bay for sure

At the time the Lincoln-Zephyr was being developed, the luxury Lincoln K's were V-12's exclusively.  The Ford V8 was a major sales element in its success, ergo the Lincoln-Zephyr would have a V-12 because that is what was basic to the make.  Unhappily, the basic engine architecture was little more than a Ford flathead V8 with four cylinders added.   It was a relatively small bore 2.75 X short stroke 3.75 engine in an era of larger bore/long stroke engines that generated plenty of torque at low rpms.  Buyers in that price segment were used to 'lugging' their long-stroke engines using the generous torque to motivate the car without shifting as much in heavy traffic.  The L-Z V-12 needed to be kept revved up to generate enough torque, did not tolerate lugging well.  The worst design drawbacks were the exhaust ports through the block to the lower outsides as was Ford flathead V8 practice causing hot spots in adjacent cylinder walls and transferring huge amounts of exhaust heat into the cooling system.   The fan was mounted on the front of the crankshaft, too low to affective cool the engine under adverse conditions.  The low, horizontal grilles configuration of the 1938 Lincoln-Zephyr came about as a partial solution to the cooling problems.  That the change caused a styling sensation that swept the industry to low, horizontal grilles within a few seasons was simply a serendipitous result.

[Marty Roth]

Many Continentals eventually became excellent "DRIVERs" during the 1950s and 1960s, following an engine swap to either Cadillac, or Chrysler power. I was told by one Lincoln Continental owner that these swaps were so needed, that they had been deemed acceptable for show by some clubs. I do not recall the specifics, but recall seeing both a Chrysler Hemi-, as well as a Cadillac-powered version.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, Marty Roth said:

Many Continentals eventually became excellent "DRIVERs" during the 1950s and 1960s, following an engine swap to either Cadillac, or Chrysler power. I was told by one Lincoln Continental owner that these swaps were so needed, that they had been deemed acceptable for show by some clubs. I do not recall the specifics, but recall seeing both a Chrysler Hemi-, as well as a Cadillac-powered version.

 

There was a caddy powered one in the Car Corral at Hershey a few years ago that was very cool.  Had a period tach mounted where the clock would go that looked like it was almost factory.

[neil morse]

22 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

At the time the Lincoln-Zephyr was being developed, the luxury Lincoln K's were V-12's exclusively.  The Ford V8 was a major sales element in its success, ergo the Lincoln-Zephyr would have a V-12 because that is what was basic to the make.  Unhappily, the basic engine architecture was little more than a Ford flathead V8 with four cylinders added.   It was a relatively small bore 2.75 X short stroke 3.75 engine in an era of larger bore/long stroke engines that generated plenty of torque at low rpms.  Buyers in that price segment were used to 'lugging' their long-stroke engines using the generous torque to motivate the car without shifting as much in heavy traffic.  The L-Z V-12 needed to be kept revved up to generate enough torque, did not tolerate lugging well.  The worst design drawbacks were the exhaust ports through the block to the lower outsides as was Ford flathead V8 practice causing hot spots in adjacent cylinder walls and transferring huge amounts of exhaust heat into the cooling system.   The fan was mounted on the front of the crankshaft, too low to affective cool the engine under adverse conditions.  The low, horizontal grilles configuration of the 1938 Lincoln-Zephyr came about as a partial solution to the cooling problems.  That the change caused a styling sensation that swept the industry to low, horizontal grilles within a few seasons was simply a serendipitous result.

Haha -- ask a question and you get a dissertation, as you often say!  Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

 

[Brooklyn Beer]

2 minutes ago, neil morse said:

Haha -- ask a question and you get a dissertation, as you often say!  Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

 

I love asking questions here.  I learn a lot

[m-mman]

23 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Buyers in that price segment were used to 'lugging' their long-stroke engines using the generous torque to motivate the car without shifting as much in heavy traffic. 

The #1 problem with Lincoln Zephyrs and Continentals was buyers (new, used and collector) expecting them to be something that they were not and were never proven or designed to be. When you accept them for what they are, accepting their failings and not demanding more from them than they were designed to give, they are fine cars. 

 

FYI - all the kinks and problems in the V-12 that were common and unsolvable in the 10-20 year old examples that existed in the 50s & 60s have been worked out by enthusiasts today. 

[58L-Y8]

Continentals remained so popular after the end of the 1948 production, according to an N.A.D.A Used Car Guide for April 1953, the pre-war models still were retail priced over $200 comparable to the '40 Cadillac 62 convertible.  Cadillac convertibles were the 'gold standard' for used luxury cars both pre and postwar.  Continental retail prices were often more than twice the concurrent Zephyr convertibles.

 

For 1953, a five-year-old Continental cabriolet, ($4746 new) in April 1953 still commanded $1195 retail.  From comparable contemporaries: a 1948 Chrysler Town & Country convertible ($3395 new) was $1045; a Packard Super Eight convertible ($3250 new) priced $1145; the Custom Eight convertible ($4295 new) only $1125; while the 'gold standard' choice 1948 Cadillac 62 convertible ($3442 new) was $1755 retail.  While the Continental and Packard Custom Eight suffered the worse depreciation, only the Continental remained popular and in demand thereafter.

 

As a teenager, I was quite smitten with the 1940's Lincoln Continentals, tracked those that appeared for sale in the Buffalo Evening News "Antiques and Classics" column during the 1960's.  While I was impressed with the idea of a V-12, my father who was familiar with the deficits that beset the H-Series V-12 Lincoln Zephyrs and Continentals began my education about those cars.  Soon, I noticed most of the used Continentals listed were advertised with Olds or Cadillac OHV V8 powerplants.  Pursuing a 'well-used' 1940 Lincoln Continental cabriolet last used by a University of Buffalo student with an Olds engine, the knowledgeable owner filled me in on the details of why the engine swaps were so common.

 

Gentlemen, you are welcome to the dissertations.  I hope they give context to these cars that we discuss.  The AACA Forums are a great resource daily to fill out one's automotive history knowledge and perspective on specific makes and models, occasionally share what we've learned.

[B Jake Moran]

15 hours ago, neil morse said:

Haha -- ask a question and you get a dissertation, as you often say!  Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

 

I always appreciate the narratives when we look over a posted car.  I learn a lot.  
 

What is done by those “in the know” now to save the V12?  One thing I can think of is an “always on” or switch driven electric fan.  I’m just curious.  

Edited September 6, 2022 by B Jake Moran (see edit history)

[m-mman]

The HV-12 was effectively a Ford V-8 lengthened to add 4 additional cylinders. Classic Ford engineering, use existing parts and designs to lower unit costs.  
same oil pump/system but longer block, crank AND add new hydraulic lifters….

same dual water pump and coolant flow design but in a longer block.  
 

Old HV-12s were known for overheating, using oil and chronic low oil pressure.  
 

Oil pressure solutions? The 1947 Ford HV-12 repair manual told you to install the cam bearings in a manner to intentionally block the oil passages to increase oil pressure.  
todays Melling high volume oil pumps also have basically solved the problem.  

being a Lincoln it used hydraulic lifters in place of the Ford solids. which of course needed more oil flow to function.  
Use the hydraulic lifters? Or Swap out to Ford solid lifters was a choice in the 50s and is still debated today. Better understanding of them and most restored cars today use hydraulics. 
 

the original crankcase ventilation was a single road draft tube.  Same as the 8 but now expected to work in a longer crankcase.  As you would expect with poor evacuation of fumes, premature wear happens and early oil burning was common. And significant oil fumes. 
today, the modification and installation of a positive vacuum system is part of a routine rebuild-restoration.  (No points deducted) 

 

HV-12s have no dipstick. Oil level is a crankcase float and gauge (just like the big classics). with no dipstick, checking the oil for both level AND condition is erratic at best and when an older engine is unventilated and using oil…..what could possibly go wrong? 
 

cooling? Expect a V8 water pump to ensure the cooling of 2 additional cylinders (each side) and issues should be expected as the cars age and cooling systems rust.  
turns out there was a metal flow diverter in the water passage that was poorly documented in the parts and repair manuals and hence typically disappeared early in the cars life. 
instructions for making and installing this diverter is readily disseminated in club information. 
 

Club research a few years ago discovered that a hole had disappeared from the current  Fel-pro head gasket production.   Nobody knows why. But talks with Fel-pro and reviews of engineering drawings and Fel-pro returned the hole which increased coolant flow.  

These are just a few of the issues that followed the HV-12 and you see how they were significant problems when people bought a used Lincoln.  
Many times a car has a single weak design, a single part that regularly fails. The HV-12 earned its poor reputation because of poor designs in many areas.  It worked well when new but as you see it didn’t age well as the mileage increased. 

Remembering that the HV-12 also used Fords camshaft mounted distributor (which few mechanics understood) and it’s easy to see how 1950s & 60s thinking would suggest that just swapping out a state of the art Overhead V-8 would solve all the problems and one could enjoy the gorgeous styling with none of the issues.  

Edited September 6, 2022 by m-mman (see edit history)

[Grimy]

There was also the early 1960s book "The Lincoln Continental" by Ocee Ritch (yes, that was the name he used, don't know whether it was a nom de plume) in which he recommended positive crankcase aspiration, detergent oil (not available at the time the HV-12 was produced), AND using single-piece 8BA (1949-53 Ford V8) valve guides (vs. split OEM guides which promoted oil consumption) and valves--and some other unseen or virtually-unseen mods.

 

I haven't had a Continental for many years now but would certainly trust the accumulated wisdom of the dedicated club members if I were building a HV-12 engine today.

 

To reinforce an earlier comment:  Like Ford flatheads, the HV-12s do not lug--drive them like an air-cooled VW and rev them up!  The non-lug mode of driving is at odds with every other luxury marque of the era (Cad, Packard, Chrysler) 😎 in that people expected the HV-12 to have low-speed torque when these engines don't.  In the mid-1960s, I test drove a 1947 LC convertible offered from their trade-ins by a Cadillac dealer on Van Ness Ave in SF (that the dealer did not wholesale that car indicates that it was still considered worthy), accompanied by a salesman and by the late Cebert H, a Marmon and McFarlan collector.  I wound it up in the gears, but never full throttle, and used 2nd overdrive rather than 3rd in city traffic--to the horror of the salesman--but performance was far more brisk than one could have expected from a 4500-lb car.  Of course, the 4.44 or so gears had something to do with that.

[B Jake Moran]

Thank you for adding those comments (both of you). Since the motor is never going to be a torque hog, it occurs to me that fixing as much of the reliability issues as possible would lead to a now pleasing ownership.  
 

Water pumps - you would think a modified improved pump even if it was slightly visually different would be ok with judges.  This would involve engineering the pump to push a coolant volume in excess of that needed for 6 cylinders. Not using a V8 pump.  Has anyone ingenuity laden LCOC or similar member ever taken on that task.  
 

Solid Valve Lifters v hydraulic. We know hydraulic makes less noise so I suppose they are superior since solid valve lifters are noisy and although associated with increased performance it would be negligible in this V12.  But - having a better oil pump that can increase pressure modestly and volume seems a no brainer.  
 

Rebuilding my Olds 455 I was encouraged to smooth most if not all tough surfaces in the engine for better flow (air/water/oil).  Matching surfaces was encouraged.  I suspect this would yield great dividends on a Ford V12.   

[m-mman]

20 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

it occurs to me that fixing as much of the reliability issues as possible would lead to a now pleasing ownership

Yup. Years of enthusiast’s trouble shooting, better part designs and construction, and an understanding of what they are and what they are not, and they can be wonderful driving tour cars. 
 

It’s similar to Corvairs.  Thrown fan belts, leaking pushrod seals, multiple carbs, etc and they earned their bad reputation over the bulletproof reliability found in a Falcon and a Valiant.  
But today Corvair enthusiasts can get one to be equally reliable. But that understanding didn’t exist when they were used transportation cars.  

[trimacar]

4 hours ago, m-mman said:

 

Yup. Years of enthusiast’s trouble shooting, better part designs and construction, and an understanding of what they are and what they are not, and they can be wonderful driving tour cars. 
 

It’s similar to Corvairs.  Thrown fan belts, leaking pushrod seals, multiple carbs, etc and they earned their bad reputation over the bulletproof reliability found in a Falcon and a Valiant.  
But today Corvair enthusiasts can get one to be equally reliable. But that understanding didn’t exist when they were used transportation cars.  

Understand that.  Yearned for a Corvair, bought a nice convertible.  Balancing four carbs quite entertaining, threw the belt three times in two months.  Great car but it was too much, so sold it.  Am sure that minor changes may have fixed, but didn’t know it then.

 

”Accepting a car for what it is”….what a huge and true statement…