1921 Paige 6-66 Lakewood - help!

[Haakon]

Hello all,

 

We just bought a 1921 Paige 6-66 Lakewood, does anyone have a instruction manual for this car? I am (to begin with) especially looking for a wiring diagram, but of course interested in any literature, electronically of physically.

 

Thank you for any help!

 

Best regards from Norway!

 

Haakon Rodtwitt

mail: haakonrodtwitt[AT]gmail[DOT]com

[Grimy]

@Haakon, welcome to the wonderful and sometimes frustrating world of Paige automobiles!  I have owned a 1922 Paige 6-66 Larchmont II (4-passenger phaeton) for 22 years.

 

I have photocopies of the two different instruction manuals for 1921 and 1922 senior models, both called "Model 17-20" and "6-66."  I can photocopy one or both for you, but the pages are in individual document protectors in binders, so will take a bit of time.  I need to know which ignition distributor you have, as at some point during 1921 Paige changed from Atwater-Kent Type CA to Type RA, and the specifications are quite different.  Look for a brass tag with black printing on the body of the distributor housing.  In service, an earlier Type CA **may** have been substituted for a Type RA.

 

Point gap for the Type CA (early 1921) is 0.008 to 0.010, and for Type RA (late 1921 and 1922) the gap is 0.015.  The two distributors use different distributor caps:  Type RA cap is perfectly round, whereas Type CA there is a "bulge" near the external linkage to the spark controls.  I do have two new distributor caps available for the Type CA.

 

The titles of the two books read:

• Paige-Detroit Reference Book, Model 17-20--Six Sixty-Six, First Edition
• Paige-Detroit Reference Book, Model 17-20--Six Sixty-Six, Second Series

I have have photocopies of several pages of instructions for the Rayfield Model G water-jacketed carburetor.

 

If you'll tell me which distributor you have, I can photograph and post the wiring diagram within the next day or so.

 

George AKA Grimy

[PFindlay]

7 hours ago, Haakon said:

We just bought a 1921 Paige 6-66 Lakewood, does anyone have a instruction manual for this car? I am (to begin with) especially looking for a wiring diagram

I have two Paige 6-66 wiring diagrams.  One for the Grey & Davis system, the other for a Remy system.  If either of these are for your car I will scan and send.

Peter

[Peter R.]

[Haakon]

21 hours ago, Grimy said:

@Haakon, welcome to the wonderful and sometimes frustrating world of Paige automobiles!  I have owned a 1922 Paige 6-66 Larchmont II (4-passenger phaeton) for 22 years.

 

I have photocopies of the two different instruction manuals for 1921 and 1922 senior models, both called "Model 17-20" and "6-66."  I can photocopy one or both for you, but the pages are in individual document protectors in binders, so will take a bit of time.  I need to know which ignition distributor you have, as at some point during 1921 Paige changed from Atwater-Kent Type CA to Type RA, and the specifications are quite different.  Look for a brass tag with black printing on the body of the distributor housing.  In service, an earlier Type CA **may** have been substituted for a Type RA.

 

Point gap for the Type CA (early 1921) is 0.008 to 0.010, and for Type RA (late 1921 and 1922) the gap is 0.015.  The two distributors use different distributor caps:  Type RA cap is perfectly round, whereas Type CA there is a "bulge" near the external linkage to the spark controls.  I do have two new distributor caps available for the Type CA.

 

The titles of the two books read:

• Paige-Detroit Reference Book, Model 17-20--Six Sixty-Six, First Edition
• Paige-Detroit Reference Book, Model 17-20--Six Sixty-Six, Second Series

I have have photocopies of several pages of instructions for the Rayfield Model G water-jacketed carburetor.

 

If you'll tell me which distributor you have, I can photograph and post the wiring diagram within the next day or so.

 

George AKA Grimy

George, Thank you so much for your reply!

As the following photos show, I have a type CA distributor. Any photocopies you are willing to provide are most welcome!

 

So far (two days) it has been both wonderful and frustrating, as I love the car, but it is not charging. A good plage to start to get to know the car!?!

 

Best regards

Haakon

[Haakon]

21 hours ago, PFindlay said:

I have two Paige 6-66 wiring diagrams.  One for the Grey & Davis system, the other for a Remy system.  If either of these are for your car I will scan and send.

Peter

Thank you very much Peter - at this point I do not know which one would be correct for my car, so if you can send both it would be much appreciated, but the Remy one is possibly the same as the one posted bleie your post?

 

Best regards

Haakon

[Haakon]

8 hours ago, Peter R. said:

Thank you very much Peter, if this is correct for my car I can begin to rule out any faults in the wires!

 

BR

Haakon

[Peter R.]

Haakon,

I guess it depends on if you are certain about the year and model of your car. What Remy starter and generator are you using on your car?

 

Peter

[Peter R.]

Found another diagram….

 

[Haakon]

I need to take a closer look, the generator show signs of major work done earlier, no visible merkings as of now, but a spare (dismantled) generator has a Remy-sign. The starter is marked Remy 705C.

 

I am not sure about the year of the car other than what the seller told me, can this be verified from VIN etc?

[Peter R.]

The car S/N and the engine number will be helpful.

[Grimy]

My information is that the correct starter is 705C, and generator 913E. 

 

If you will send me your serial number (mine is on brass plate underneath the right front passenger seat cushion, should be something like 132nnn) and engine number (on brass plate affixed to crankcase on right side of engine below manifolds, might read something like 8AP-13nnnn), I will look them up in Michael Keller's excellent book "Graham-Paige to 1932" (approximate title, includes Paige as a predecessor marque).  Your car has the "bell-shaped" headlights which were changed to "drum shaped" headlights sometime in mid- to late-1921.

 

The greatest problem with these engines is the water pump shaft.  The shaft is about 30 inches long, is captive in the water pump, has a spiral drive gear forward of the pump to drive the oil pump and distributor, extends forward through a timing gear (no chain), the timing cover, and is keyed to a pulley.  To rebuild the water pump (if the shaft has not already been split), the hood, radiator, headlights, timing cover, pulley, one timing gear, distributor, oil pump, and generator must be removed.  Only then can one remove the hoses and three nuts attaching the pump.

 

The other vulnerability is the original camshaft gear which was made of pressed silk and resin.  If valves are stuck, attempting to turn the engine will strip this gear.  Replacement gears are NOT available and must be made from aluminum.

[Peter R.]

Here‘s the Remy diagram and the Remy equipment index for Paige.

 

[Haakon]

Peter, George; please see attached photos (in several posts as there are size-limit on the forum)

 

The waterpump shaft have clearly been an issue sometime before i got my hands on the car….

 

Thank you again for all your help, it is really appreciated!

[Haakon]

Waterpump shaft

[Haakon]

Shaft to generator

[Grimy]

Excellent!  Someone has already been through days of misery and has solved the water pump removal problem for you and future owners by cutting the shaft and installing a coupler!

 

My Keller book seems to be out of file at the moment, but the 128nnn numbers indicate to me that your car is an early 1921.

 

I suggest you replace that bottom radiator hose with two short sections of straight hose on either side of a curved piece of metal pipe (perhaps muffler pipe) equipped with a drain valve--as the car was originally equipped.  I'll provide photos of original equipment soon.

[Peter R.]

Edited August 1, 2022 by Peter R. (see edit history)

[Peter R.]

[Peter R.]

[Grimy]

1 minute ago, Peter R. said:

@Peter R., if you have similar pages for A-K Type RA distributors, could you please post?

[Peter R.]

13 minutes ago, Grimy said:

if you have similar pages for A-K Type RA distributors, could you please post?

I wish I could help but unfortunately my booklet covers the CA, CC and H, K-2, K-3 Unisparkers only.

[Peter R.]

[Haakon]

Found this: the second edition of the reference book for 6-66 online as a PDF-file:

 

https://ia802906.us.archive.org/34/items/Paige-detroitReferenceBook/PageDetroit.pdf
 

[Grimy]

6 minutes ago, Haakon said:

Found this: the second edition of the reference book for 6-66 online as a PDF-file:

 

https://ia802906.us.archive.org/34/items/Paige-detroitReferenceBook/PageDetroit.pdf
 

Thank you!  This one ("Second Edition") is most interesting, and seems to have been produced between my two copies called "First Edition" and "Second SERIES."  The document you found has information on your Type CA distributor which Atwater Kent and Paige were calling "Unisparker."  The Unisparker term was not used in the "Second Series" manual.

[Walt G]

Although I do not own a Paige I find all of this most interesting . It is why the more information , numbers, etc provided in the first post/question will lead to answers sooner .

SO many times ( to me more then 60%) so little information is provided by the person asking a question  it makes some of us who have the answers sitting here ( probably) frustrated to even try to help. 🙄

George( Grimy) is a wonderful person to take the time and make the effort to try to help as he not only owns the cars but is a "hands on" first person experience type of guy like I am as is my brother Steve who also owns a Paige.

It is because of AACA who host these forums we are all a little better and more knowledgeable at the end of the day. JOIN AACA if you are not a member already! You are benefiting by what you read here so at least show some appreciation by becoming a member.

 

[Haakon]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:01 PM, Peter R. said:

 

@Peter R. : Impressive collection of parts!

Do you have distributor cap, rotor, condenser and points for the type CA-distributor for sale? I would be most interested in buying a set, as mine seems to all have seen better days, and I am trying to eliminate sources of error.

I tried sending you a PM, but it seems I am not allowed to send messages.

Best regards

Haakon

Edited July 7, 2023 by Haakon (see edit history)