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Updraft Carburetor body identification


Michael Bode
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I was wondering if someone here might be able to help identify an updraft carburetor body I picked up at an estate sale. Seemed the guy was big into Ford Model A and T and there was a lifetime collection of parts. I got about 7 of these bodies in various stages of disassembly. They appear to be brass. I haven't had much luck yet searching the Internet trying to identify them, so any help would be appreciated.

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37 minutes ago, Michael Bode said:

I was wondering if someone here might be able to help identify an updraft carburetor body I picked up at an estate sale. Seemed the guy was big into Ford Model A and T and there was a lifetime collection of parts. I got about 7 of these bodies in various stages of disassembly. They appear to be brass. I haven't had much luck yet searching the Internet trying to identify them, so any help would be appreciated.

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Jon has a very good website and has been incredibly helpful to a lot of us over the years. 

THE CARBURETOR SHOP

 

Start with the "passenger kits" list then go to the "truck list". 

I'd just go down the list and see what vehicles used the Stromberg O-1 or OE-1 (OE-1 is another name for it if I'm not mistaken). 

 

Regards
Dave

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Stromberg type O-1, never used by Ford. Exact application is possible if you are independently wealthy, and don't care about remaining so. ;)

 

Seriously, it could easily take 40 ~ 50 hours of research to identify the exact application.

 

I have several that are not worth me trying to totally identify.

 

Jon 

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My first answer to this thread was made somewhat "tongue-in-cheek" to use an old cliche.

 

The following is true of probably MOST carburetors produced prior to about 1935:

 

To identify the carburetor to an exact application:

 

(1) Acquire ALL of the bills-of-material for ALL applications using this type. This is not always possible, but I can come pretty close on Stromberg.

(2) Take pictures of linkages, as these can really help in the identification.

(3) TOTALLY disassemble the carburetor

(4) MEASURE all variable parts (venturi, idle jet, main jet, comp jet (if present) idle air bleed, main air bleed, fuel valve seat orifice, etc.)

(5) Go to the bills-of-materials, and start eliminating. I generally start with the venturi size. Eliminate ALL bills-of-material until only one is left. SOMETIMES this is possible without more research.

(6) Assuming there are duplicates, use the bills-of-material to acquire part numbers for the various linkage arms. Using the part numbers, look up the drawings for each of the arms, determine which arm is on the unit in question, and see if this eliminates all but one bill-of-material.

 

It is easy to see that, even if one has access to all of the documentation, the actual work involved requires a LOT of time.

 

When I was still restoring carburetors, and I got a request of one of these early units; I would pick a good casting, print out the bill-of-material and build the carburetor.

 

As as example, if a customer wanted a Stromberg type O-1 for a 1915 Henway, I would go to the card file, look under Henway, and pull the card. Then disassemble the carburetor with the good casting, and assemble the carburetor with the Henway specifications. Much less time consuming than identifying ALL of the Stromberg type O-1 carbs, and finding I probably did not have one for a Henway anyway; so would have to build the unit beginning with the casting.

 

I suppose there are some early carburetors that are unique to a specific application, but none come to mind. Just for grins, I looked up the supercharged Duesenberg Stromberg UU-3. But in addition to the Duesenberg, it was also used (same type, different calibrations) on Mack and American LaFrance trucks. So then I looked up the Pierce MP-3. Unique, no, Caterpillar used it on several models.

 

But keep asking, maybe there are some unique ones out there. My favorite would be the 2-barrel Strwart (Detroit Lubricator) used on the Regal; but I don't have, nor know of anyone that does, have complete records for Detroit Lubricator.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Thanks for the quick response Jon. I had found your website and called, but it was Friday and as your message states Mon and Tues are the days to call. So I have been starting to Google the models and have had a little success but still a long way to go.

 

What I got are OE-1, OC-2, O-1, OA-1, M-1 and OT-2. A couple Holleys 1914, A Krice 1910 tagged as marine or stationary engine, a Monach Valve Co. and Schebler Mod R. Its an interesting assortment. In starting researching I have found my way to a couple of forums and run across comments and instruction from the guy who's estate I acquired these from. You may have dealt with him in the past, his name was Stan Howe.

 

If these are even remotely useable, I'd like to get them into the hands of the people who can make use of them. I got them out of a sense of nostalgia I guess. When things were much simpler and you didn't need a $5000 computer and a Phd to be able to diagnose why your truck is idling rough.

 

Anyhow the help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

Mike 

 

 

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Most all of the OE-1's I have seen were off Studebaker according to the bowl covers that I have seen. That does not mean all were installed on that brand. I have run the OE-1s on Model Ts with different intake installed, pretty good carb. 

 

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Michael - to my knowledge, Holley did not make a model 1914. If Stan tagged it as 1914, it probably is for a 1914 Ford.

 

Of what you listed, the OT-2 is the cream of the crop.

 

We offer print-outs of POSSIBLE applications by type on all of the Strombergs for a fee.

 

And a comment on the OE-1, the print-out would include 73 possibilities.

 

Jon.

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Jon - The Holleys are 1914 patent date cast into the top plate, sorry not a model #. Of all the list the OC-2 is the most complete. Here are pics of the OT-2. 

 

Something else I got that I had neve seen before is Champion Priming Plug. I'm gonna guess that you are familiar with it, but it was something new to me.

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Paul, Mark, The OE-1s, I have four, are striped bodies so as I am beginning to understand the linkage is what would define it's specific application. I am surprised the the numbers stamped into the bodies don't offer more help in tracing down their origins.

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Mike, The Franklin OE1 will have an oval flat-spot on the front end of the fuel bowl with  a threaded hole at each end and a small hole though the fuel bowl between them. That is for an electric "fuemer" to bolt on for cold weather starting on the low octane gas of that era.  Here's a pic of a 1927 Franklin OE2 with the same fuemer. 

 

Paul

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Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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That would most likely be for the plug to be removed to check the float level. In my picture above, it is the hex head plug - just above the fuel inlet fitting.

 

Paul

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2 hours ago, Michael Bode said:

Paul, Mark, The OE-1s, I have four, are striped bodies so as I am beginning to understand the linkage is what would define it's specific application. I am surprised the the numbers stamped into the bodies don't offer more help in tracing down their origins.

Not just the linkage. If you look at information from the era on Stromberg's, you could have several different size venturis in the same carb body, depending on the engine cubic inch size. 

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12 hours ago, Mark Gregush said:

Not just the linkage. If you look at information from the era on Stromberg's, you could have several different size venturis in the same carb body, depending on the engine cubic inch size. 

Also different fixed jet and restriction sizes. 

 

Paul

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On 7/29/2022 at 5:13 PM, carbking said:

... if a customer wanted a Stromberg type O-1 for a 1915 Henway, I would go to the card file, look under Henway, and pull the card...

I'm not familiar with that car.  What's a Henway?

 

😊

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On 7/31/2022 at 12:58 AM, Michael Bode said:

Thanks for the quick response Jon. I had found your website and called, but it was Friday and as your message states Mon and Tues are the days to call. So I have been starting to Google the models and have had a little success but still a long way to go.

 

What I got are OE-1, OC-2, O-1, OA-1, M-1 and OT-2. A couple Holleys 1914, A Krice 1910 tagged as marine or stationary engine, a Monach Valve Co. and Schebler Mod R. Its an interesting assortment. In starting researching I have found my way to a couple of forums and run across comments and instruction from the guy who's estate I acquired these from. You may have dealt with him in the past, his name was Stan Howe.

 

If these are even remotely useable, I'd like to get them into the hands of the people who can make use of them. I got them out of a sense of nostalgia I guess. When things were much simpler and you didn't need a $5000 computer and a Phd to be able to diagnose why your truck is idling rough.

 

Anyhow the help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

Mike 

 

 

Mike - 

     I would be interested in the Stromberg OC-2 carb. That’s a side draft model that can be interchanged with Stromberg OS-2 carbs used on Kissel made 6-45 and 6-55 engines. Opposite hand than an OS, but can be adjusted.

     The Stromberg O series units are easy to adjust and tune and deliver alot of power.

     Thanks, Ron Haysmann P. E.

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On 7/29/2022 at 5:13 PM, carbking said:

I suppose there are some early carburetors that are unique to a specific application, but none come to mind. Just for grins, I looked up the supercharged Duesenberg Stromberg UU-3. But in addition to the Duesenberg, it was also used (same type, different calibrations) on Mack and American LaFrance trucks. So then I looked up the Pierce MP-3. Unique, no, Caterpillar used it on several models.

 

But keep asking, maybe there are some unique ones out there. My favorite would be the 2-barrel Strwart (Detroit Lubricator) used on the Regal; but I don't have, nor know of anyone that does, have complete records for Detroit Lubricator.

 

Jon.

 

The Detroit Lubricator 2-barrel Model 51, as far as I know, was used on just one series of one marque. 1930 Packard Speedster Eight

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On 8/5/2022 at 4:52 PM, Michael Bode said:

IMG_1540.JPG.beab8bde79422f24e90ceb07ced61a2f.JPGRon,

Are there any particulars you need to know about the OC-2? 

Mike,

Is it complete? Do armatures move freely? Any outward damage? Other than that, those units are very sturdy.

ron

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Ron- I took a video with my phone showing that all the linkages move freely but I can't attach it here because it's an mov extension. The pics show the flange, writing on the side of the bowl, fitting on the bottom of the bowl which appears to be bent and what looks like a repair to that fitting, the float in great shape and mechanism on the bottom of float bowl cover moves freely, interior of the bowl. The float bowl cover has one screw and no gasket. The intake "cowl" has one screw. All the attachment hole threads are good. The picture of the throat/venturi shows at the bottom edge of the venturi seems to have a piece broken out of it. That is the best pic I could get of it.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Mike

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As far as I can tell from the books, the OC-2 was used on 1916-23 Hudson Super Sixes as Outfit carburetors. 
This particular OC-2 (8172) was probably used on a 1916-21 Hudson Super Six with B&S 3-1/2“ x 5“.

Besides two Hudson installations and a standard OC-2 carburetor, I did not find any other applications of this carburetor.

 

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Edited by Peter R. (see edit history)
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On 8/10/2022 at 2:57 PM, Michael Bode said:

Ron- I took a video with my phone showing that all the linkages move freely but I can't attach it here because it's an mov extension. The pics show the flange, writing on the side of the bowl, fitting on the bottom of the bowl which appears to be bent and what looks like a repair to that fitting, the float in great shape and mechanism on the bottom of float bowl cover moves freely, interior of the bowl. The float bowl cover has one screw and no gasket. The intake "cowl" has one screw. All the attachment hole threads are good. The picture of the throat/venturi shows at the bottom edge of the venturi seems to have a piece broken out of it. That is the best pic I could get of it.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Mike

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Hey Mike,

    The fittings that are damaged are replaceable with other fittings from more common Stromberg O series units, which I have. The venturri can be pounded out and a new machined unit put in. I had new ones I machined awhile back that would fit.
    So can you PM me with a price for this unit as is please?

    While it’s not correct for replacing a Kissel Stromberg OS-2, it’s easily adapted. The OC has one more economiser adjustment on it that the OS doesn’t have, but that’s a redundant feature.

    Thanks. Ron Hausmann P.E.

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On 8/5/2022 at 7:21 PM, ron hausmann said:

     I would be interested in the Stromberg OC-2 carb. That’s a side draft model that can be interchanged with Stromberg OS-2 carbs used on Kissel made 6-45 and 6-55 engines. Opposite hand than an OS, but can be adjusted.

     The Stromberg O series units are easy to adjust and tune and deliver alot of power.

     Thanks, Ron Haysmann P. E.

Ron,

Here‘s some Kissel related OS-2 info I found. Maybe it’s helpful

Peter

 

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That carb looks like it was originally set up for a 4-Cylinder Essex ca. 1919-1923, and at some point (apparently) modified to work as an aftermarket Model T Ford carburetor. The flange looks correct for an Essex. Maybe there's an adapter that's missing?

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