Water jet cutting or Laser Cutting steel... Anyone done it?

[Bloo]

Have any among us had steel (or stainless steel) plate water jet cut or laser cut? Practical for a onesy twosy part? Too expensive?

 

Here is the part in question. I guess this is about 3/16" original thickness, but I'll measure it when I get a chance.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

At work we have had steel and aluminum water jet cut for projects, but nothing automotive. For the same part (as you show) on my Graham water pump, I just screwed a piece of 1/8" steel to an aluminum block I could hold in the jaws of the mill vice and hand milled (X,Y,Z) the shape. Mine looked as cavitated as yours. Only made one oops..... But not enough to matter.

 

If you can draw it up in a CAD program that the water jet company can use, it should be great. I have no idea of the cost.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I did consider making one by hand. I also have one that is better than what I posted, but not that much better. I have noticed most rebuilt pumps seem to be missing this part.

 

Were you able to find specs for the impeller clearances on your Graham pump or did you have to wing it?

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Back in 2001 I was ordering 302 stainless laser cut sheetmetal parts of similar gauge using my CAD files from nearby sheetmetal shops and my conclusion was they had a minimum order charge of around $400.  My parts usually consumed less than a full sheet.   Figure 30% to 50% increase in cost for today.  If you can make friends with a small shop owner who would be willing to nest your part in unused material from another customer's order you might be able get a better deal.  You could just pay for as many parts as they can nest in an entire sheet of stainless and try to recoup the investment by selling them.  Perhaps of of the online parts suppliers would buy your extras. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Such a flat part is so easy to do yourself with some files and a press drill...

[A Woolf]

Your part is a great candidate for water jet or laser cutting.  The attached photo is an example of a steel part that I just had cut. It is about 4 inches long. Years ago I found a shop that had waterjet capability and they were willing to do small jobs.  I do a lot of fabrication and machining but there are times particularly when I was working that it was faster and easier to farm out the work and that allowed me to concentrate on other jobs. Not to mention if the operator has accurate information the accuracy for a waterjet cut part is very good.

 

I can’t tell you exactly what my part cost because it was part of a package of 6 small parts but the entire order was less than $250 dollars.  The big challenge for most people is having a way to create a digital 2D image of the part.  I do all of my own digital modeling but I think most companies will work from a hand sketch and charge an additional fee.   Maybe you have a child or grandchild or nephew or niece that could help with the digital model.  

 

Are there other people that need a similar part?  You might consider working with some folks to create extra parts and reduce the costs of the parts.  

 

Alan

 

[edinmass]

My local water jet guy would scan the part on his printer, and somehow entered it into the water jet machine. Trick is to find a guy who is willing to do custom work…….it seems now the few guys I know with the equipment are so busy with production work they just can’t afford the down time. 

[Ronnie]

You don't need the latest technology for the part you are wanting made. This flame cutter is what you are more likely to find at a local machine/fab shop. You should be able to get it done at a reasonable price. All you have to do is draw or trace out the part on paper. No CAD drawing needed.

 

 

[ryan95]

I use sendcutsend.com for laser cutting. You can order just one part if thats all you need. I use them here and there for hard to find or custom pieces of metal or plastic that I need made. I checked the price for a similar part I already have drawn up. It would run you about $30 in mild steel or about $70 in stainless. If you already have the tools to do it by hand, that would take about the same amount of time and be cheaper. If you have to buy a jigsaw, blades, bits, countersinks, and files, it isn't worth it to do by hand unless you plan on using the tools for other future jobs. There are also free options to get into CAD work, such as Tinkercad or FreeCAD. FreeCAD is what I use. I am a novice, but making 2D drawings only took me a couple hours to learn, and I have used it multiple times over the past couple years.

[Milburn Drysdale]

Another option is to use a turret punch press. We cut parts like this all the time

[Akstraw]

My local machine shop cut a part of similar size and complexity, but from 1/4" steel plate, for me using water jet for $40.

[32buick67]

8 hours ago, Bloo said:

Have any among us had steel (or stainless steel) plate water jet cut or laser cut? Practical for a onesy twosy part? Too expensive?

 

Here is the part in question. I guess this is about 3/16" original thickness, but I'll measure it when I get a chance.

 

 

 

 

Bloo,

Email Greg in PA, he does custom one-off for a reasonable price in a variety of materials and thicknesses.

 

He did the CAD based on my sketches, and then laser cut and deburred spider lockwashers for some of our Buick axles.

 

Maybe he can scan the part as Ed mentioned that some other suppliers do.

 

https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/

[PFitz]

Late Father in law needed one but to cover high cost he had a bunch of Stabilator shock absorber wrenches water jet cut in stainless. Had to sell them at $25.00 to cover his costs and make a bit on them.

 

Paul

Edited July 26, 2022 by PFitz (see edit history)

[32buick67]

14 minutes ago, ryan95 said:

I use sendcutsend.com for laser cutting. You can order just one part if thats all you need. I use them here and there for hard to find or custom pieces of metal or plastic that I need made. I checked the price for a similar part I already have drawn up. It would run you about $30 in mild steel or about $70 in stainless. If you already have the tools to do it by hand, that would take about the same amount of time and be cheaper. If you have to buy a jigsaw, blades, bits, countersinks, and files, it isn't worth it to do by hand unless you plan on using the tools for other future jobs. There are also free options to get into CAD work, such as Tinkercad or FreeCAD. FreeCAD is what I use. I am a novice, but making 2D drawings only took me a couple hours to learn, and I have used it multiple times over the past couple years.

I use this company too at work, but only when the CAD is already done and correct for them to ingest into their software.  Wrong CAD = a lot of back and forth.

[EmTee]

16 minutes ago, 32buick67 said:

Wrong CAD = a lot of back and forth.

Can they (or the others mentioned above) accept STEP files?

[ryan95]

Their website says DXF, DWG, EPS, or AI file. I use DXF files. I think STEP is a 3D file type, which isn't what you would want for laser or water jet.

[32buick67]

53 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Can they (or the others mentioned above) accept STEP files?

Unfortunately .step, .stp, .sld are all examples of 3D.

 

.dxf, .dwg, etc. are 2D as mentioned by ryan95 and ingest nicely into laser and waterjet software.

 

However, I would ask the companies to confirm...things change, and maybe they found a way to internally convert 3D files from customers to their 2D system.

 

If someone converts a 3D into 2D for you, I highly recommend you review and approve the 2D design before they make it (not uncommon to run into issues such as size/scale, quality, broken files when using online freeware programs, etc.).

 

[TAKerry]

Do you know of a local steel fabricator in your area. One of them may have a cutter. 

[Laughing Coyote]

I run my plasma table just about everyday at my business.  That part would be really simple to duplicate and make.  If you can't find anyone shoot me a PM.

[Gary_Ash]

I've made many parts using both water-jet and laser cutting.  The edges on water-jet parts are smoother but the kerf is larger.  There is also a little taper as the jet gets wider as it cuts deeper.  Normally, the taper is only an issue on parts more than an inch thick.

 

Laser cuts parts sometimes have "grapes" where the beam exits on the lower side, but not frequently on parts 1/4-inch thick or less.  The metal fabrication shop I deal with asks if they are supposed to cut, outside the lines, inside the lines, or on the lines, as it can change the final dimensions slightly.  The precision of laser cutting is excellent, and I will draw a hole 0.507" dia. to place a 1/2-inch bolt in and have them cut on the lines.  Typical kerf width was 0.005 to 0.007 inch.  They have two 5 ft x 10 ft laser tables and two large water-jet cutters, one with dual heads to cut two parts at once.  I use DXF files for cutting.  Be careful in creating the drawings so that arcs and circles remain as those types rather than getting converted to hundreds of points along a path.  But, you do need to be sure that the paths are connected and closed in order to get clean cuts.  My local shop, less than a mile from my house, will also bend the parts precisely and weld if you want.

 

The local steel suppliers will also cut steel, stainless, or aluminum with a plasma cutter, not too expensive but not quite as precise and wider kerf width.

 

I also found a Boston area shop that can laser cut plywood, usually for steel rule dies.  I had a bunch of Studebaker sign letters cut from 10-ply birch 3/4-inch thick plywood, excellent work though the edges are slightly burnt.  I tried water-jet cutting the letters once, but whenever the jet entered a knothole, it blew the plywood apart.  When I was working, we used that laser shop to cut 5 ft x 10 ft sheets of plywood into forms for building large aluminum structures.  They were able to make bulbs and sockets along the edges so that multiple sheets of plywood could be snapped together like jigsaw puzzle parts to form infinitely large pieces. 

Front and rear engine mounting plates (3/16") for 1937 Studebaker straight 8 with formed chassis mounts (1/4").  I had factory engine block drawings to locate holes exactly.

 

1960s Buick front and rear backing plates (modified) with 3/16" laser cut stiffener/adaptor plates which were welded to the Buick parts.

 

Plywood sheet with laser-cut letters.  Note narrow kerf.

 

Complete set of wood letters after painting.  Large letters are 6" high.  These are reproductions of factory-supplied letters for dealerships from the 1930s and 1940s.

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

P.S.  I also had some rear axle shims laser cut from 0.005" thick shim stock.  The shop said it was a little tricky to hold the 6" wide sheet flat for cutting, but it worked well.

 

Drawing of shim for 1928 Studebaker rear axle.

 

Rear axle parts with shims.

 

 

[Restorer32]

In water jet cutting it is not actually the water that does the cutting but rather the extremely hard abrasive that is in the water, name of which escapes me at the moment.

[ryan95]

I think it is usually garnet.

[Gary_Ash]

Ah, but there are some things that can be cut with pure water.  Here are some examples:

 

 

 

And just for fun:

 

[pkhammer]

Bloo, send me a PM and I can help if you don't find a local shop at a satisfactory price. I can do the CAD work if you send me the part. My workplace has water-jet and laser cutter and I have parts made quite often.

[SC38dls]

2 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

Ah, but there are some things that can be cut with pure water.  Here are some examples:

 

 

 

And just for fun:

 

Gary, now I have to stop working in the garage because I looked at this and I’m hungry! 
dave s 

[Bloo]

Thank you everyone for the responses! I spoke with one local shop yesterday who did not have the right equipment to make these parts efficiently. Today I am going to talk with another shop who might.

 

One more thing, I don't know if anyone saw it but these three holes are heavily countersunk. I am imagining that is a separate machine shop (or drill press) operation. Any thoughts on that?

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

The way the assembly goes together I suspect flat head machine screws go in those locations. Any competent machine shop can do that for you easily.

[Bloo]

Thank you all for your responses! I must admit I have not followed up on any of these leads yet, as I have been distracted trying to get the radiator out of the Pontiac without removing the nose. The shop manual says it's possible but I have my doubts. It shouldn't take this long. It has been over 100F here for a couple of weeks and that isn't helping. Hopefully I can bring this thread back to life with some kind of update in a week or so.

[hidden_hunter]

On 7/27/2022 at 6:18 AM, Bloo said:

Any thoughts on that?

Do you have any concerns about doing it yourself? Should be a pretty straight forward way to save some $

[Bloo]

14 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

Do you have any concerns about doing it yourself? Should be a pretty straight forward way to save some $

 

I was just wondering if the cutter could countersink like that. I didn't think so, but I had to ask. I have access to a Bridgeport mill, and I have a drill press. It would be no big deal at all for 2 or 3 plates. If I had to make a whole pile of them in order to get the job done, and then try to resell them, I can see it being a bit of drudgery doing a whole bunch of them manually. That doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't do it.....

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Stude17]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:07 PM, Roger Zimmermann said:

Such a flat part is so easy to do yourself with some files and a press drill...

Agree.  To the above list of tools I would add a 4" angle grinder and a thin cut off disc.

[8E45E]

Yes, I had the sheet metal cappings on the 'batwing' laser cut, after drafting it and saving it to a .dxf file.  1/32" tolerance.

 

Craig

[Gary_Ash]

You can cut the countersinks in your drill press with a piloted countersink bit, usually with an 82 degree angle.  The pilot diameter keeps the countersink centered on the hole.  Here is info from McMaster-Carr:

High-Speed Steel Vibration-Resistant Through-Hole Countersinks with Pilot for Screws

 

The built-in pilot maintains alignment in the hole. Also known as zero-flute countersinks, these have an angled hole that passes through the center of the tool to reduce vibration and chatter, which creates smooth cuts and prevents chips from clogging the countersink. The 82° countersink angle is compatible with the profile of flat- and oval-head inch screws.

 

[BearsFan315]

waterjet would be best for that part, laser could be done as well.

do this stuff all day everyday, local shop here loves to do small onesie twosie jobs, done plenty of parts for my 1929 and other side jobs.

 

have it waterjet then countersink the 2 holes by hand or on a press, simple enough.

 

cheaper when you can get someone to do the CAD work, i do all my cad work, and give the shop a ready to go dxf file. all i pay for is material and time. they also do gaskets and such done a lot for work as well as personal. turnaround time is typically 1-3 days.

 

I'm an Autodesk guy have been for almost 30 years... do both 2d and 3d

love doing stuff like this, simple and easy  typically design 3d casting models for volute pumps and impellers !! 

[8E45E]

2 minutes ago, BearsFan315 said:

love doing stuff like this, simple and easy  typically design 3d casting models for volute pumps and impellers !! 

I do the same, except in Solidworks now.

[BearsFan315]

18 hours ago, 8E45E said:

I do the same, except in Solidworks now.

yeah our company decided to make the switch over to Solidworks about 3 years ago, spent 2 years doing training and such to learn the differences and how to do the things we need.

 

is that on Orange Peel (Rexnord) Guard ?! 

designed many a structural baseplates in my day  

[8E45E]

Correct.  It is a Rexnord Orange Peel MCG-25 guard.

 

Craig

[Bloo]

Thanks to everyone who responded. This project is not dead, it is just sleeping as I have been out at the Pontiac Flathead Reunion, and have been too distracted by that to follow up on any more leads. I am also not back home yet. Probably more is coming about this in a couple of weeks.