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WTB Distributor drive gears (1 Worm 1 Shaft) 1932 Buick 90 -344 Dual Point


CTCV
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These used to be listed with Mac but not sure if any are still available.

 

Also I would appreciate any info on all gears pertaining to the generator. My understanding is the generators may be the same with the exception of the rate of spin produced through these gears.

 

Thanks

Tony

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Thanks to all, great info. I am a bit surprised that in the list from Pete the main drive gear that engages the cam gear is not listed. Did that have options based on engine size? Are they available?

Tony

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4 hours ago, CTCV said:

I am a bit surprised that in the list from Pete the main drive gear that engages the cam gear is not listed.

You understand, do you, that the generator drives everything except the oil pump?  A helical gear on the front of the generator engages the fiber cam gear in the front timing case, that drives the generator, the distributor gears that Tom Van Meteren has, drive the distributor.   An Oldham coupling drives the water pump off the rear of the generator.  The oil pump is driven off a helical gear machined in assembly with the cam inside the crankcase behind the oil temp regulator.  

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2 hours ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

You understand, do you, that the generator drives everything except the oil pump?  A helical gear on the front of the generator engages the fiber cam gear in the front timing case, that drives the generator, the distributor gears that Tom Van Meteren has, drive the distributor.   An Oldham coupling drives the water pump off the rear of the generator.  The oil pump is driven off a helical gear machined in assembly with the cam inside the crankcase behind the oil temp regulator.  

Hi Dave , a fascinating setup and I am familiar. Although I was talking about distributor gears, when I saw the parts list that seemed to begin with "generator 940 T1" I guess I thought the helical gear on the front of the gen. would also be in that list. 

I don't have any manuals on this so I have to ask here to solve questions in my mind. Or use mathematics if possible. I was trying to confirm my belief that the drive and driven dist. gears are the same in both generator that I have. Member input verified they are the same. I concluded that they would have to be a 3:1 ratio and they both are. Leaving the only other gear to consider for correct timing being the helical on the front. I would then have to conclude that Buick changed the helical gear depending on application. I would be interest in how many different helical gears were utilized with this gen. , part numbers and did they list them by no. of teeth for identification.

I'm just trying to get backup parts together in case I break down in my travels. Extra Gen. ,Dist, Water pump, starter all that stuff.

Tony

 

 

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8 hours ago, CTCV said:

I am a bit surprised that in the list from Pete the main drive gear that engages the cam gear is not listed. Did that have options based on engine size? Are they available?


Tony,

The list is off the 1934 AEA catalog. AEA catalogs only list wearing parts. Obviously they did not consider the worm gear to be a fast moving part. Since the worm gear is a part of the generator you will find it in the more detailed generator service parts catalog.


 

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….and keep in mind, the distributor always runs at half the crankshaft speed. All 1931-35 Buicks used the same gear set (ratio 3:1). So the generator drive ratio is also the same on all 1931-35 Buicks. 1929-30 Buicks used the same gear set but with a RH worm gear instead of a LH. On earlier Buicks the worm gear was designed with a fange or coupling.

Edited by Peter R. (see edit history)
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20 hours ago, CTCV said:

I'm just trying to get backup parts together in case I break down in my travels. Extra Gen. ,Dist, Water pump, starter all that stuff.

Hi Tony- You and I think alike on spares, I keep a spread sheet for mine.  I recently built a complete heat riser setup including transfer tubes and exhaust diverter.  That's just in case my failure to follow advice of many to block off the carburetor heat system comes round to bite me LOL.  The system on my car is complete and functional without problem and the one on my bench is even better.

 

Dave

 

 

SHR 062.jpg

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9 hours ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

Hi Tony- You and I think alike on spares, I keep a spread sheet for mine.  I recently built a complete heat riser setup including transfer tubes and exhaust diverter.  That's just in case my failure to follow advice of many to block off the carburetor heat system comes round to bite me LOL.  The system on my car is complete and functional without problem and the one on my bench is even better.

 

Dave

 

 

SHR 062.jpg

Yes I have admired some of your work. I could not afford trying to put an original carb system together. Missing parts and broken parts when I found it. Also no sense using up important parts I did have on mine since it is no show vehicle. I rather horse trade those parts where someone gets better use.

I really would have expected to find more generators out there since it seems they were the same in 31 and 32 on all models. I am still a bit confused on the main helical drive gear that engages the cam gear. The timing gear on the 50 series is 1 and 1/8 " and on the other series it is 1 and 1/4.  To me this means there must be two different helical gears available for a 940 T generator to maintain timing for both.

Anyone know if I am correct here? Basically I'm saying a 940 T from a fifty series will look correct in every way but would never meet distributor timing at 0 and 180 degrees repeatable in any other series.

Tony

And frankly I am not sure the timing gear they are talking about. I know no gear that size in the engine or gen or dist. Unless they mean the width of the helical drive gear.

 

Edited by CTCV
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On 7/10/2022 at 2:22 PM, CTCV said:

I am a bit surprised that in the list from Pete the main drive gear that engages the cam gear is not listed.

Tony, maybe the generator drive gear was not supplied by Delco-Remy. This could explain why it is not listed. 

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On 7/10/2022 at 10:05 PM, CTCV said:

I would be interest in how many different helical gears were utilized with this gen. , part numbers and did they list them by no. of teeth for identification.

Tony, I do have some of these gear driven Buick ignition-generators in stock and also have some extra drive gears. Let me see what I find out to answer that question. Peter 

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18 hours ago, CTCV said:

To me this means there must be two different helical gears available for a 940 T generator to maintain timing for both.

Anyone know if I am correct here?

I think you‘re right, there are probably two different generator drive gears used on the 940-T series generators (and on other series as well, such as on the 940-M, 956-B and 956-H series).

 

I found three 940-T generators:

940-T1

940-T2

940-T3

 

940-T1 appears to be the base generator without distributor and generator drive gear. The basic generator is the same on all three units. What makes it a T2 or T3 depends on what distributor and drive gear is used.

 

Here‘s a spreadsheet of all gear driven Buick ignition-generators. I‘ll try to fill in the missing generator drive gear data. 

Inputs from your end will be appreciated.

 

74C72E05-529E-45D6-8BEF-EB8F7D121040.jpeg

Edited by Peter R. (see edit history)
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Hey Pete

I purchased a Generator Identified as a 940 T on a new reproduction tag. So I am not sure if it has the correct helical drive gear on the front. It would be odd that someone did not put back that which came on it. Still that does not ID the series. The gear on this is an 18 tooth 2-7/16 diameter 1-1/8 wide helical gear. I believe I can see the characters FX on the face. My original gear was on my original armature I sent out to be restored. I will have it back about Friday. I will provide specs on that when it arrives. My guess is it will be 1-1/4 wide and different in teeth or diameter. If you have these drive gears in hand can you verify the gear dimensions ?

Tony

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4 hours ago, CTCV said:

If you have these drive gears in hand can you verify the gear dimensions ?

Tony, I found a total of four different Buick generators:

940-F (1928 115, 120 & 128)

940-T3 (1931-32 8-50)

956-B2 (1933 8-60, 8-80 & 8-90)

956-B3 (1933 8-50)

 

I assume Buick used two different gears:

1. 2-7/16“ OD, 1-1/8“ Wide, 18 teeth, DP9

2. 2-1/2“ OD, 1-1/4“ Wide, 20 teeth, DP10

 

A DP10 tooth is smaller than a DP9 tooth.

 

Looks like ypur „940-T“ is actually a 940-T3 that came off of a 1931-32 Buick Series 50.

 

Now when you take your 940-T generator and install a 2-1/2“ DP10 gear with 20 teeth on it together with a 662-B distributor, you will get a perfect 940-T2 generator that suits your 1932 8-90, I‘d say.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Peter R. said:

940-T3
1931-32 Buick Series 50 generator

 

Generator drive gear:

2-7/16“ OD

1-1/8“ Wide

18 Teeth

DP9

 

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Peter, 

Your catalog is mind-blowing!

Its amazing to me how much info you have, unreal and persistently impressive...

 

Tony,

I am currently running a 33 generator in my 32 (over 20 years, including the prior owner), and I measured the drive gears, and the 33 and 32 gears are the same as they interface with the helical fiber cam gear.

The 956B (33-60) and 940T (32-60) generator gears are the same spec.

I don't know if other years will mate interchange, but its likely at least 1931 is probably a valid interchange year.

At some point us Buick owners might need to conspire and record which generator gears are compatible with each series across the years...

 

I looked through about 2000pages of vintage manuals for info on the Buick spec generator gear, and I found nothing of value, crazy.  

I think Peter has the most info at this point, very impressive.

As Bob Engle taught me, before install, be sure generator oil passages are free and clear, otherwise the results can make quite a mess and take a lot of time to remove and clean.

Most folks can make their own gaskets, or Olsons has most of what might be needed.

 

Happy motoring in Wilkes-Barre,

Mario

 

 

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10 hours ago, 32buick67 said:

Peter, 

Your catalog is mind-blowing!

Its amazing to me how much info you have, unreal and persistently impressive...

 

Tony,

I am currently running a 33 generator in my 32 (over 20 years, including the prior owner), and I measured the drive gears, and the 33 and 32 gears are the same as they interface with the helical fiber cam gear.

The 956B (33-60) and 940T (32-60) generator gears are the same spec.

I don't know if other years will mate interchange, but its likely at least 1931 is probably a valid interchange year.

At some point us Buick owners might need to conspire and record which generator gears are compatible with each series across the years...

 

I looked through about 2000pages of vintage manuals for info on the Buick spec generator gear, and I found nothing of value, crazy.  

I think Peter has the most info at this point, very impressive.

As Bob Engle taught me, before install, be sure generator oil passages are free and clear, otherwise the results can make quite a mess and take a lot of time to remove and clean.

Most folks can make their own gaskets, or Olsons has most of what might be needed.

 

Happy motoring in Wilkes-Barre,

Mario

 

 

Nice hearing from you Mario.

Yes I believe those you mentioned are the same. Please note the info in this image and compared to Peter's images and data suggests that the reference to "Timing Gears" (1-1/8 or 1-1/4) must be referring to these main helical gears. Peter's 1933 956 B2 60-80-90 series measured 2-7/16 x 1-1/8 18 teeth and the one I purchased turned out to have the same dimension and I believe is to a 50 series and not what I need. But the only difference is the main helical gear which is why I am on the hunt for one. Very surprised to find that Pete's 1933 956-B3 50 series seems to have the gear I need. Can you provide those dimensions and specs on your 956 and 940 to confirm 20 tooth and 1-1/4 wide.

Tony

Spec and Adj Timing gear.jpg

Edited by CTCV
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17 hours ago, Peter R. said:

Tony, I found a total of four different Buick generators:

940-F (1928 115, 120 & 128)

940-T3 (1931-32 8-50)

956-B2 (1933 8-60, 8-80 & 8-90)

956-B3 (1933 8-50)

 

I assume Buick used two different gears:

1. 2-7/16“ OD, 1-1/8“ Wide, 18 teeth, DP9

2. 2-1/2“ OD, 1-1/4“ Wide, 20 teeth, DP10

 

A DP10 tooth is smaller than a DP9 tooth.

 

Looks like ypur „940-T“ is actually a 940-T3 that came off of a 1931-32 Buick Series 50.

 

Now when you take your 940-T generator and install a 2-1/2“ DP10 gear with 20 teeth on it together with a 662-B distributor, you will get a perfect 940-T2 generator that suits your 1932 8-90, I‘d say.

 

 

 

Some how i must have scrolled right past this but I believe you are correct.

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Tony, here are a few pics of the 940T, 18 tooth, 1.125" wide generator gear.

 

My understanding is that the stampings on the face are manufacturing quality marks for each process step (machining, hardness, etc), and they are unrelated to part number deciphering.

 

My understanding is that the fiber cam gear is slightly wider to ensure full gear tooth engagement when the mechanical engineers were trying to manage front end tolerance alignment.

 

The 956B generator in my car has the exact same gear dimensions as this 940T gear.

I will have to check later if I have a pic of the gears in mesh to show how the cam is wider by design.

 

Mario

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19 hours ago, CTCV said:

Pete , are sure about that 1932 90 gear size?

Tony, no I‘m not. Mario mentioned that he‘s using a 956-B2 on his 32 and that a 940-T2 would have the same gear. Since my 956-B2 has 18 teeth I figured the 940-T2 must have 18 teeth too.

Also, I found a 940-M (1929) on eBay. From the picture I can tell the gear has 20 teeth. Further I found a gear with a hand written tag on it saying 1929-30 Buick with 18 teeth, which would be a gear for the 940-M generator. So something‘s not right here. I have no control over what‘s correct as people probably change gears to make other generators work on their cars. My 1929-30 gear has Cloyes P/N 481. A Cloyes catalog would help deciphering the mystery.

 

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Adding to the confusion...

 

While the 956B(1933-60) gear on my car has the same dimensions at the 940T (1932-60) gear, the tooth count is different.

I found the old photo of when I replaced the timing gear.

Also, the Buick shop manual (page 171) requires a 1.5:1 ratio between the crank gear and generator gear.

 

To get a 1.5:1 ratio for the 32-60 series:

  • crank gear = 30 teeth
  • cam gear = 60 teeth
  • generator gear = 20 teeth 

Bottom line, the 18 tooth gear on my 940T generator is incorrect for the 32-60 series. 

Another mystery why the incorrect gear was installed on the generator...

 

Correct = 20 tooth generator gear

 

The 1931-1933 series 60 generators seem to have a lot of interchange, and are all likely 20 tooth gears for at least the 60 series, but we will need positive proof as to whether this is the case.

If I can make some time later, I will scour the Buick parts book to see if there are any references or part numbers for the gears.

Looking through all of my other manuals, I get the impression the generator drive gear was purchased and inventoried direct by Buick for factory stock, and not provided as an assembly by AC Delco or other subassembly supplier.

 

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