1939 Plymouth road king trans

[Briann]

Morning 

I got this car from my cousin that passed away this winter he had it for about 40 years there is a lot of small things to do was going to sell it but will keep it for now 

is fist gear on these synchromesh have to come to a stop like on a bull low gm 4 speed 

I had the shifter cover off to change the shifter from a 38 parts car as there was so much slop in the ball 

much better going into second 

 

The 38 trans has all angled gears did not  look in the 39 at the time 

I will pop the 38 in if need not a big job 

 

I  have a king pin set coming is and motor and trans mount shakes bas to take off in first looks like the front mount is broke 

Thanks 

Brian

[Grimy]

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, but first gear on almost all US cars is NON-synchromesh until the late 1950s.  If you want first gear while still rolling, you can double-clutch like everyone did on ALL gears before synchromesh became common on 2nd and 3rd (only) in the early 1930s.

 

Front engine mount change on MoPaR sixes is a good idea.

[Briann]

Thanks 

will do the double clutch for first 

The car hasn t been on the road for all most 10 years was lucking the plates were kept up to date  was started and moved but don t think much last  few years 

had to do all the brakes total jam waiting for a couple of dust covers  lucky the hoses and lines were all changes years ago still like new 

added flashers need a relay for + ground 

the speedo dial feel of had to get that back on 

 put new shocks 

will need tires at some point 

 

 

 

did this year come with a front sway bar or was that a option i didn t see one when cleaning the place out 

thanks 

[Grimy]

Think about the fuel system:  Don't run the car on any existing gas.  Use a boat tank you can mount on the cowl for testing until you get the tank professionally cleaned out.  Old gas, even if it looks and smells good, is very likely to turn to varnish that will make the valves stick in their guides the SECOND time you run the engine.  You'll probably need to rebuild the fuel pump and at least clean out and re-gasket the carb.

[Briann]

The car was drained of it gas the plug was hand tight in the bottom of the tank so he had drained it at one point 

put new gas and he had bottles of lead substitute added that also 

 

have been driving it but no more till the king pins and mounts are done wonders with the lose pins and no sway bas dose not  help 

there is a new fuel pump in the trunk if it packs it in 

starts well  

will flush and adjust the brakes again did a fast job to get it rolling seems i will keep it for a bit so want to be save 

 

the worse thing ahead is to remove the intake and exhaust manifold  3 of the 4 long bolts holding the 2 manifold's are stuck as the 2 long ones going into the block 

i did the 38 yesterday out of the car only had 3 stuck was not  fun 

 

doing this to check the adjustment on valve's and not sure if heat riser is open or closed the spring and arm were off  put temp gun on the  manifold seems even heat all over 

Thanks

[ply33]

2 hours ago, Grimy said:

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, but first gear on almost all US cars is NON-synchromesh until the late 1950s.  If you want first gear while still rolling, you can double-clutch like everyone did on ALL gears before synchromesh became common on 2nd and 3rd (only) in the early 1930s.

Only quibble on this statement is "until the late 1950s". The family car I learned to drive on was a '63 model year and first was not synchronized on that. So I'd revise your statement to "until the 1960s".

 

18 minutes ago, Briann said:

The car was drained of it gas the plug was hand tight in the bottom of the tank so he had drained it at one point 

put new gas and he had bottles of lead substitute added that also 

There is absolutely no reason for a lead substitute for a Plymouth with an L-6 (flathead) engine: It came from the factory with hardened exhaust valve seat inserts. The only thing that a lead substitute is guaranteed to do is lighten your wallet.

[Grimy]

15 minutes ago, ply33 said:

Only quibble on this statement is "until the late 1950s". The family car I learned to drive on was a '63 model year and first was not synchronized on that. So I'd revise your statement to "until the 1960s".

Yeah, I thought of that, but the Corvette guys would be on me just like you...  🙂  OP was apparently not acquainted with non-synchro first gears.  In any event, can we categorically agree that no American cars in 1939 had a synchro first gear?

 

 

16 minutes ago, ply33 said:

There is absolutely no reason for a lead substitute for a Plymouth with an L-6 (flathead) engine: It came from the factory with hardened exhaust valve seat inserts. The only thing that a lead substitute is guaranteed to do is lighten your wallet.

Agree, unless he plans to drag a travel trailer behind it...for which a 1939 Plymouth is not a good choice.

[Briann]

24 minutes ago, ply33 said:

Only quibble on this statement is "until the late 1950s". The family car I learned to drive on was a '63 model year and first was not synchronized on that. So I'd revise your statement to "until the 1960s".

 

There is absolutely no reason for a lead substitute for a Plymouth with an L-6 (flathead) engine: It came from the factory with hardened exhaust valve seat inserts. The only thing that a lead substitute is guaranteed to do is lighten your wallet.

Good to know it was in the truck so added it in 

[Bloo]

With a non synchronized first gear, when you disengage the clutch to put it in gear at a stoplight, you have to wait for the gears to spin down or it will grind. This can seem like an eternity, and in modern traffic sometimes it just doesn't happen quick enough.

 

There is a faster way. Right after you disengage the clutch to put the car in gear, "touch" a synchronized gear (second or third) before putting the car in first. The synchronizer on second or third will stop all the gears and you can go right to first without waiting. This only works if the car is not moving at all.

 

[Frank DuVal]

7 hours ago, Grimy said:

Yeah, I thought of that, but the Corvette guys would be on me just like you...  🙂 

Chevrolet did not get synchro first gear on the THREE speeds until 1966. Full size, Chevelles, Chevy IIs, Corvairs. Four speeds did have synchro first gear. Except for the truck transmissions, the "Granny Gears" were not synchronized....

[keithb7]

I drive a ‘38 Plymouth sedan. 4.11 rear end. If I am rolling at all, any speed even slower than a walk, 2nd gear pulls just fine. California stops, this car has ‘em mastered.
 

After a couple drives you’ll get used to waiting for a full stop before going into first.   Its a great car. Love mine to bits. The ‘38 and ‘39 gears are cut on an angle. They are called helical gears. They have more strength as they have a wider contact area. Also quieter operation compared to straight cut spur gears.  Helical gears do create thrust forces. The cluster (countershaft) gear is shimmed with varying width thrust and standard washers. Wear on the washers means the cluster gear will move fore-and-aft too much. When shimmed back within spec, the tranny runs smoother and quieter. Also not chewing itself apart any more, making metal. 
 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[Briann]

The power is there for 2nd just the few times where i slow down to get in the driveway i would use 1 

Will get used to it.  Till  the front mount is changed i wouldn't do 2nd 

 Keith I have been watching your YouTube channel learned a lot about this type of car was helpful about the floor pans made changing the shifter easy 

will see if the front mount can be done  without removing the water pump 

My last car was 10 years ago 67 Falcon sports coupe 289 sold it after running out of room for my  Hit and miss engines 

 

mount and king pin held in custom's since the 27 should see them by Wednesday got the dust covers yesterday for brake cylinders wrong intake gaskets set must be for a 23'' block need part number for the 25''

Thanks    

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

You shouldn't need to go lower than second once you get rolling, if the engine is running right. We aren't used to the way the old motors will idle down and pull from low RPMs. I think the first American 3 speed with synchro low was in 1962 Fords, at least they made a big thing of it in their ads that year.

Double clutching isn't that hard, the secret is to rev the engine to the same speed it will be going after you shift. This brings the gears to the same speed and prevents them from clashing. With a little practice you can "feel" when they are lined up and shift without using the clutch.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Almost no one used first back then except for getting the car rolling. Some guys even started from a dead stop in second if they were on the level or pointed downhill. That is one major reason you still see unsynchronized first gears 30+ years after Synchromesh became common. The other major reason is cost. You need a whole additional synchro hub and sleeve, which could in theory serve two gears. You only get one more synchronized gear though, unless you put in a fourth speed.

[Briann]

The front mount was broken but the car still was jumping bad on take off after installing new one 

so took the trans out and the clutch was very sticky .the rear  engine seal has a bit of a leak being there is no drain hole on the dust cover for ring  there was oil in it .and the car use  sitting for years  looks like oil got slug around when start a few times a year 

 

i had a complete 38 engine and trans so took that clutch out to try that had t been run in over 40 years took a chance  works well 

got the brakes working well then the back locked up the steel lines were all changes years ago .the hose in the back looked good but was blocked took it off to unblock it till the new ones came in how have good brakes 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Briann (see edit history)