Restorer32 Posted June 24, 2022 Posted June 24, 2022 After 44 years messing with these old cars we have encountered and solved many, many problems but new ones still crop up. Has anyone ever had a brass radiator plated where the grill is actually part of the radiator, serving as sides and top of the radiator? The rad core is new but cannot be removed without major headaches. I am afraid to ask our plater. He may laugh me out of his shop. Anyone have any experience with this?
John Kelso Posted June 24, 2022 Posted June 24, 2022 Check with the Pierce group, someone there should be able to help
dibarlaw Posted June 24, 2022 Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) Smaller scale issue was on my 1925 Buick Standard. The filler neck on the top tank is to be plated. Mine still looks pretty decent so I did not worry after Lebrandi plated the shell. Of course it sticks out (to me) like a sore thumb. On my 1925 Master radiator, the former owner/restorer did some heavy hammer refitting of the radiator to shroud to shell. I made up a puller to get the top tank back into shape . That filler neck was pretty scarred up. My radiator guy said to send the filler neck out to get plated. After it came back from Niagara Plating he re-soldered it on to the re-cored radiator's top tank. No discoloration on the filler neck at all. Edited June 24, 2022 by dibarlaw (see edit history) 5
Walt G Posted June 24, 2022 Posted June 24, 2022 Larry, thanks for sharing that, most appreciated! It is why pictures and words have to blend together to tell the true whole story. this goes for restoration as well as the written word of a article about the history of the car. Walt 2
Akstraw Posted June 25, 2022 Posted June 25, 2022 In short, I have not done this, and I am not a plater. Thinking about how I might do it, though, I am wondering if the parts of the assembly not to be plated could be coated with some type of wax, which would seal it against the plating solution. Then the wax could be melted off after the plating process.
prewarnut Posted June 25, 2022 Posted June 25, 2022 I agree, the professionals have a substance that can block the metal from getting plated. But, I don't know if they would guarrantee being able to block every fin or honeycomb. Another way to do it is to submerge just to the opening, then rotate 90 degrees and do the next side. The overlap shouldn't be a big deal except potentially for nickel. I don't know how you'd do the top though....Nickel or copper takes a while to adhear so a small misalignment or splash won't cause deposition. I don't know about brass (if that's what you're plating). Gold on the other hand, 3 seconds is all you need and it is on. On the other hand, what happens if you plate the radiator itself and go back and redo it differently? In otherwords the center could be "brush plated" a different "color" from the front and/or back later. So potentially submerge the whole thing for plating and then brush re-plate the honeycomb. Perhaps a picture may help....
Joe in Canada Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 Why not just put a good tape for example over the area not to be plated. I know you can not put wax or other types of coatings as you will contaminate the bath solution. Basically I think if you just cover the area not to be plated to block the area and it does not have to be water tight.
Restorer32 Posted June 27, 2022 Author Posted June 27, 2022 Problem solved. Talked to our plater and he says he can plate the grill/rad combo together. This is a new copper core which makes it easier. He will plug the rad openings so none of the plating solution enters the core. Only downside is the core will also be nickel plated but this should not cause any problems and we can mask off the core and give it a thin coat of radiator black. I have often heard about these tapes or waxes that can be used to mask off areas not to be plated but our plater says they would not work in this situation and they would not use them anyway out of fear of contaminating their nickel tank which costs $4000+ to refill if it becomes contaminated. 1
wayne sheldon Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 Sounds like you have the situation well under control. Most people do not know this, even in the model T Ford world! It is rarely ever discussed, almost never found in books, or even original sales literature. Many years ago, I did see original copies of sales literature that mentioned it. I also saw a few original radiators showing it in good condition. I actually owned one original oil sidelamp! During the latter half of the "brass era" for the model T Ford, Ford had an option to nickel plate most of the brass trim! I do not know if the cars left the factory that way, or were retrofitted by the dealers (that would be my guess?). It may even be that the dealers worked with local plating shops to do that as an after-market addition. I have seen a couple era photographs of then new cars that appear to be nickel radiators. A bit over forty years ago, I met a fellow and saw the car he had meticulously restored that way. He claimed it had been that way originally, and had copies of original sales literature to back it up! It was beautifully restored, and quite striking to look at. As I recall, I think it was either a 1913 or 1914. I really liked the look of it! Reading your question makes me wonder what you are working on?
Joe in Canada Posted June 28, 2022 Posted June 28, 2022 If the core is plated can that effect the cooling capability?
wayne sheldon Posted June 28, 2022 Posted June 28, 2022 Metallic attachment to fins or tubes shouldn't adversely affect the cooling efficiency, much. In some cases, it may even bond tubes and fins (but do not expect much?) and improve cooling efficiency. On the flip side, the chemicals involved could loosen the bonds between tubes and fins, adversely affecting the cooling efficiency. Clear as mud yet? Electroplating generally doesn't like to attach inside the labyrinth of tubes fins or honeycombs. The electrolytic effects prefer "path of least resistance", also often the shortest path. So a bright effect may adhere to the outer surfaces. However the inner areas will likely not receive much. Warning, I am not technically an expert here by any sense of the word. However, I have done a fair amount of experimentation with electrolytic rust removal (a reverse process), some home plating (and planning to do more!), and worked in the field of electromagnetic field effect phenomenon. (A fancy phrase for radio frequency and other electromagnetic interference problems! I had to locate the sources, and find a fix for them!))
Restorer32 Posted June 28, 2022 Author Posted June 28, 2022 The grill in question is from an early Olds. Our plater, Librandi's, also says that there will be little deposition of nickel inside the honeycomb. But first we have several small dents we need to pull out.
Restorer32 Posted June 28, 2022 Author Posted June 28, 2022 3 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: Metallic attachment to fins or tubes shouldn't adversely affect the cooling efficiency, much. In some cases, it may even bond tubes and fins (but do not expect much?) and improve cooling efficiency. On the flip side, the chemicals involved could loosen the bonds between tubes and fins, adversely affecting the cooling efficiency. Clear as mud yet? Electroplating generally doesn't like to attach inside the labyrinth of tubes fins or honeycombs. The electrolytic effects prefer "path of least resistance", also often the shortest path. So a bright effect may adhere to the outer surfaces. However the inner areas will likely not receive much. Warning, I am not technically an expert here by any sense of the word. However, I have done a fair amount of experimentation with electrolytic rust removal (a reverse process), some home plating (and planning to do more!), and worked in the field of electromagnetic field effect phenomenon. (A fancy phrase for radio frequency and other electromagnetic interference problems! I had to locate the sources, and find a fix for them!)) Years ago we did a '37 Cadillac with a radio and I was surprised to see static eliminating devices fitted to the axle ends, basically brushes that directed the static to ground.
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