Bill Stoneberg Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 All right all you people who spend years restoring a car. I have a question that I need an answer to.At the moment I am discouraged because the car is out of my hands getting body and paint done. I have tried before to do body work and paint and have found it is better to pay someone to do it. I am basically a butcher when it comes to that kind of work.So, I sent the car to a trusted body man expecting it to get done. It has now taken longer then it should have by a good while. Work is getting done, but not as quickly as I would have liked. I havn't been sitting idle though, I used this time to get the chrome replated and all the extra parts ordered. So I now have all I need to finish the car sitting in the spare bedroom (my wife loves it).But now, even though I see small progress, I am a combination of anxious to get the car back and discouraged with the amount of time it is taking. To take the car back and send it to another body shop means getting in line there and paying much more then I will now. But, believe me, I have thought about it.So how have any of you handled the downtime when all the work is done that you can do and you cant work on your restoration ? How do you handle the waiting for something to get done ?I am a patient man, for the most part, but this waiting is getting to me.Or maybe it is just a lack of Sun for the past couple of weeks...<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />Thanks y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Dear Bill,Haven't seen the sun for a couple of weeks,up here it went away in Oct. will not see again till May.I would guess that paint guys are some of the most independent people around.Seems like they really enjoy stringing you along.I am lucky,i strip all the paint,my brother does all the metal work and finishs the filler,i prime all parts and block and re-prime and blockkkkkkkkkkkkk and with a little luck and some ca$$$$h my brother will squirt it.diz <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 You're doing the best you can by getting the chrome and such done. Get together the hardware too. DO some research on it's history. The paint and body is one of the most important parts of a resto. It will be how the car is percieved. Crappy paint is hard to make right. I have NEVER had any paint work done on time. As long as the body shop is doing the job right, you are going to be OK.Try to be patient, but be firm with him. If you stop by regularly and bring gifts (beer or what ever) for him on a friendly vist, this will keep you fresh in their mind. Sometimes that moves ya up the list a bit.My 2 1/2 year long resto was months of busting butt followed by weeks of nothing, not even thinking about it. It comes and goes. Once you get the car back in all it's glory, you will find yourself up late working on it.BTW - What are you working on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Bill, Did the car go to a body shop or a restoration shop? If it is in a body shop it may be fill in work during bread & butter crash repair. Depending on what is being repaired on your car the workers my be burned out working on it and are taking a break. It is a rare situation for a shop to work non stop on any restoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 With an old car of ANY make,popular or orphan,patience is the key. Remember in a body shop your car is the odd man out, something that needs alot of labor and takes away valuable time from the plethora of modern "snap and bolt" vehicles that comprise the bread and butter of today's shop work. Machine shops are the same way, my guy is set up for foreign and domestic head and crank work, the oddball stuff I bring him sometimes requires special tooling and jig work so it's usually 6 months, sometimes a year before my stuff is worked on.In the inerests of time I could bring my work to some guys who specialize in antiques with a fast turnaround but then I'd be paying a small fortune, plus the fellas I deal with really know their sh-t, and they LISTEN to me if they are ever in doubt about something,to me that makes all the difference. If you trust the guy's work and he has a proven track record just sit back and relax, it ain't spring yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 I am working on a 1950 Buick Estate Wagon. It has wood on the back end and wont even come close to floating. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I do like your car though and would love to see one in the lakes around here. What a vehicle to fish from.I took it to a restoration shop and got in line. I had heard too many stories about cars sitting in modern body shops. He also does wood work also, which is why I chose the shop I did. Wood pieces are all cut but we can't get the paint done yet.Unfortunalty stopping by with beer doesn't work, its 1,000 mile round trip.I have no choice but to be patient, its just hard sometime and I was wondering how the rest of y'all handled the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Bill, I must reiterate a previous post. If the paint shop does quality work...RELAX. A good paint job takes time and is well worth the wait.After seeing the picture below your name: go to www.autoextremist.com and hit the Detroit Autorama site. Some fabulous rods and customs but also a Duesenberg roaster with an AACA first prize award on grille...can't remember the history of this real unusual car. 60 real quality photos...you like 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 WOW! Great website, added that to my favorites, cas always look great inside under the lights. The Duesenberg is the Ab Jenkins Bonneville LSR record car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Mills Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I am going through the same process for my son. He purchased a 1970 Dodge Charger before he left for Korea last year. He will return next month and the car has been in the shop since he left. I go there about once a week to check on progress. The work is good but the process is slow. You just have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Bill ~ It is always nice to have your car worked on close to home, but that is not always possible. There was no one here in Cheyenne I would have trusted to re-restore portions of my '41 Cadillac. So, off it went to people a l-o-n-g way from home, who I knew well and trusted to do the job right without my having to keep an eye on them.The paint work was done in Knoxville, TN, and the top and some other trim work in North Carolina. It took a couple of years, but I was patient and never worried. I knew the people doing the work were good and could be trusted. If you don't have that feeling and the car is 1000 miles away you might consider retrieving it. If you have a high level of trust, relax and go play with something else. I know the wait is hard, but it will eventually come home done to your satisfaction, if it is in the hands of good people.Being as it is a Buick, if it is possibly in the hands of Lewis Jenkins in N. Wilkesboro, NC, you have nothing to worry about. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just guessing here, because he is about 1000 miles from you.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 1937, thanks for jogging my memory about the Ab Jenkins car. I vaguely remember seeing something on it years ago..wonder what class in AACA it was shown?The autoextremist.com website does not always have great pictures but it certainly has a lot of rants about the automobile business. Many top execs at major automobile companies do check it out. A lot of folks email anonymously about "stuff" going on in the business. Glad you like the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Steve, I sure hope it won in Class 24A, if anything it is over qualified for that class.This was the first of three cars Ab Jenkins raced. Check out this web address for a nice history. <a>http://historytogo.utah.gov/mormonm.html</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Steve & Bob ~ I believe the Duesenberg we are discussing was the Mormon Meteor. It was shown in class 24a in 1985 in Columbia, SC and won its 1st Jr at that Meet. At that time it was owned by Knox Kershaw and it went on to win a Sr., Preservation and Grand National awards.You really jogged my memory with this car, as Columbia in 1985 was my first Meet as AACA VP of Class Judging, and the car made quite an impression on all of us there on that day.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Bob, thanks for he website info. Very interesting reading! Howard, I just can imagine the judges reaction looking at the Duesenberg! I know I would have been scatching my head just a little.The amazing thing about this race car is that it had so much gingerbread for a one-off race car. Sure wish I could get behind the wheel! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 is there anyone who actually does their own work? my god I would never thought america was getting this lazy! To answer you question bill>what yall do to keep you mind off of it< I always try to work on other projects or just watch tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Yes, Classic, there are some people who do ALL of their own work and it often turns out to be a fine example of unskilled labor. Don't put down those of us who are smart enough to know our own limitations and seek help for work that is beyond our personal capabilities. To paraphrase Barnum, the average car person can do some of the work all of the time and all of the work some of the time, but not everyone can do all of the work all of the time.I found your comment offensive.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 ....and Howard, A good digital camera and lots of pictures makes a big difference too. There has been more than one time where my dad and I couldn't figure out how something went back together, fired up the computer and was able to figure it out. There are a lot of things that we thought we couldn't do, but found out that we could based on pictures, books and the forum. The only thing that I can't imagine ANYONE doing themselves is chrome refinishing. Without insulting others, I can say that it means a whole lot more when you can take an award on a project that you did YOURSELF. When you see individuals hire someone to restore their car, come to an AACA meet, and leave with nothing, and we leave with an award for a restoration on a car that we did in our own shop, it makes you feel good as well as serves as a confidence builder......oh by the way, we got that woodie running this afternoon. Now we have to see if we can get done in time for Carlisle (13 weeks away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Howard, I find it odd that someone would need to hire someone to find parts for them. I can just imagine what that must to to jack up the cost of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Well said Bob. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />Pat ~ I agree that it is great to do it all yourself, and I wish that I had that ability. Unfortunately in my 40 years of showing cars in AACA I have never been able to do it all myself. But I have gotten a great deal of satisfaction out of the combination of what I could do and what I had to hire out. I stand by my belief in what Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry. "A man should know his limitations." Some of mine are: I can't bore engine blocks, I cannot do tops and upholstery worthy of my '41 Cadillac Conv. Sedan and as you say I can't chrome plate. But I can do what most of you can't, and that is take a stock sheet of laminated safety glass and turn it into a finished window on most any pre war car. I have the books and patterns, although I no longer do that kind of work. For years I swapped my skills with friends who had other skills that I lacked. Now talk about satisfaction, that gives it to you double. You get your work done and you help a friend while he helps you. And the price is usually right. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Right now I am in a situation where I was able to offer some financial assistance to a very good friend when he just couldn't afford to build the garage he needed. I'm being repaid [no interest]little by little as he does bits and pieces of restoration work that I feel are beyond me. And if I die before we are even, what the hell. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 To Classic Parts Finder,If you had seen some of my earlier cars that I painted myself, you would understand why I farm out the paint and bodywork. I can do small parts and touch ups but I dont have the skill or patience to get broad flat expanses of sheet metal as straight as I would like. What I do though is all the mechanical and other work. I have even tried doing interiors, so I am not afraid of it. Its just depending on the car, it is better if I farm some things out. I spent and continue to spend time time on working on the car. Howard, I wish it was in Mr. Jenkins hands. I didn't find out about him until I started shopping for leather. He does excellent work. By the way, you were talking about glass in your post. There is a manufacturing shop that I found that uses their water jet machine for cutting glass. I saw it the other day and was amazed. They lay a big sheet of glass on the table and punch in some instructions and you get a piece of glass cut to fit the pattern they have. The machine was purchased to cut steel but the owner needed glass cut for his car and decided to branch out. Long way from doing it by hand.I also swap tasks I am good at for work by others. Just the other day I built a new computer for a friend while he was sheetrocking a room in my house. So you give some and get some.I will be patient and am in a better frame of mind today. I took the afternoon off of work and drove my 1947 Buick for a while. I am glad I have that or else I would go nuts I think.Thanks for the comments and the website of Hot Rods and Customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 i'm sorry if i offended anyone. I should had word the last post differently. Its just around here in ky (dont know if its different anywhere else) but people have their cars built by pros and then show the car off saying they did the work inwhich tears at the insides of the guys who actually work on their own cars. Some times life just isn't fair. you just have to work with the cards dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Is that a form of "kentucky windage"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Well Bill, your subject "Anxious and Discouraged" hit me today. As I was getting in early this morning from work, I was dreaming of driving one of my cars on this pretty 65 degree Saturday. No sooner get in the house that a customer calls needing "it" yesterday. Saturday shot all to hell--very discouraged. I can't wait to get old and do my own thing. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caf Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Bill; I can understand your frustration. You may find this hard to believe but I have my own shop and hate to bring in any of my own cars because it always seems that as soon as I bring it in, a bunch of customer stuff comes in that has to go and mine just sets there! I find that restoration work and regular modern work just don't mix at all. I also find that I lose hundreds,if not more, on restoration work because it is so time consuming trying to get it perfect. A restoration shop is usually better because they can concentrate on a few cars and not have the distraction of modern work disrupting the schedule, of course it is going to cost much more, but that is the tradeoff if you are needing it done soon. As you know, body work is very labor intensive and difficult to estimate. Painting costs are getting astronomical as well. I just don't care to do any more cars as it is so frustrating. And all this from someone who has all the resources! Hopefully all will turn out well for you but it may take some time. Like others have said, most shops don't want to do it because of the above reasons. I find that its getting to a point that I am lucky to find anyone at all that will tackle any kind of restoration work regardless of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 You're right Howard, I had forgotten about the interior. My dad and I also have a guy that comes in and helps us, in exchange, we allow him space to store his car, and full use of our shop. There are days that the three of us are working on his cars, and there are days when he is helping us, but the barter system always works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I can't remember which AACA national show I was at but there was this guy with and old car there ("old car" = pre '40). He was boasting about the fact that he restored this car himself. several of us there wondered. clue #1: No cut, bruised or scraped fingers. Clue #2: no dirt under fingernails. After several minutes of conversation it came out that he got the car, took it to HIS dealership and HIS mechanics did the mechanical and chassis work while HIS body shop guys did the body /paint work. I left laughing to myself, wondering which part of him REALLY did the work. Him or his wallet? Duh, I think we have a winner here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeyPop Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Bill... I sympathise with you completely. I have done all the work to my Model A except the sheetmetal work. I'm anxious to get the paintwork done but am having so much fun right now driving the thing around, I'd go nuts if it was in someone elses shop just sitting for them to get the time to do the body and paint work. When I was down and out because of a back operation and couldn't do anything to it at all that required lifting or twisting around, I started to acquire 'spare' parts for rebuilding. I've pretty much stocked my spare parts shelf with things like a carburetor, water pump, starter, generator, shocks, distributor and steering box. Now while the truck is at the body shop, I'll have something to do related to it that keeps me from going stir crazy. Believe me though, I will be visiting the shop on a regular basis to see what's getting done. Maybe you should think about doing the same... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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