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1918 HAL Twelve


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AJ, I have never heard of it.  Now that you have “shaken the bushes”, let’s see what comes to light. Big multi-cylinder cars were a small slice of what was manufactured.   I am waiting for Walt and others to chime in. 
 

 

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There is one out west. We were discussing it at the Gilmore Museum this morning.  One gentleman seemed to be well versed in them……and listed a lot of engineering issues that made them unreliable.

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25 minutes ago, George K said:

Nicked this off EBayEE556E84-4F8C-4C0C-80DD-E880F330558B.jpeg.bfcc42ef8f5377b19b2f474e3a34d769.jpeg

Appears to be the same Weidely V-12 engine that powered the 1917-18 Kissel Double Six.  The sole survivor is in the Forney Transportation Museum in Denver, Colorado.  

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All -

The 1917 -1918 Kissel “Double-Six” was powered by this Weidley V-12 engine.
Few were sold and fewer still were considered good cars.

From contemporary Kissel writings, this Weidley 12 engine had a tendency to “starve” the outermost cylinders of oil, leading to problems. Kissel dealerships actually sought to fix this Weidley problem by offering a method for piping oil to those outer cylinders. That seemed to cure the problem, but why have any problem with a brand new engine.

As few such cars were sold, Kissel used up the big V-12 bodies on their 1919 Kissel 6-45 chassis right after WW1 when they were finishing their WW1 truck body contract. One such car body remains and here is a picture. It’s a beast.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

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Terry, you are correct. It’s a big ugly thing. I had a chance to play with it probably 20 years ago. I would like to make a few more comments but they would get me in trouble so I will hold them back 

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By the way, I know somebody who’s looking for a HAL 12 if there is one available. He’s been asking me for about five years. 

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On 6/4/2022 at 3:42 PM, John Bloom said:

AJ, I have never heard of it.  Now that you have “shaken the bushes”, let’s see what comes to light. Big multi-cylinder cars were a small slice of what was manufactured.   I am waiting for Walt and others to chime in. 
 

 

My thoughts exactly 

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The reason the early 12 isn't known is two fold........the Packard Twin Six came out earlier and after all was a Packard product.......the Weidely was being offered to assembled cars during the ugly days of WW1, when car production was way down and the prestige of the available engine was just about zero when you look at who was using it. The little I know about them is from conversations with some "in the know" nickel guys that are all now no longer with us..........mostly I just remember them saying it was an under powered truck engine..........their words, not mine. Having never driven one, I can't offer a fair opinion. 

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6 hours ago, edinmass said:

Terry, you are correct. It’s a big ugly thing. I had a chance to play with it probably 20 years ago. I would like to make a few more comments but they would get me in trouble so I will hold them back 

Let’s just agree that any car the starts with “Heine” has a disadvantage. Now Heineken has possibilities.

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Looks to be the same engine that powered the Pathfinder.    I know where this car is so I could probably get some better pictures.  It was toured for decades so there must have been some updates to the engine.

 

 

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A.J., I got the impression, from someplace obscure, that Peerless was experimenting with new lines of engines and went down the path of a V-12, weren't satisfied with it, and 1 or 2 guys involved bought all the patterns, parts and molds and were welcome to take them to start a new company. Sorry I can't remember where I read it, but both outfits were in Cleveland. This would have been spurred on by De Dion Bouton & Cadillac mass-producing V-8s and Packard's brilliant V-12.  I've never seen a Hal 12, but I saw the 1917 National "Highway 12" at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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On 6/3/2022 at 1:31 PM, alsancle said:

Anybody ever see one of these or heard of them?

I knew about them but I've never seen one. I was told too that the Weidely C12 wasn't a very reliable engine.

Other than that I know that H.A.L. and Enger were the only two early V12 engined cars that used Remy ignition (Remy's only distributors for 12 cylinder engines). H.A.L. in particular used Remy distributors on its 1916 and 17 models. On the 1918 models they switched to Delco distributors (with two 6 cyl. distributor caps instead of one single 12 cylinder cap....with a single coil for 12 cylinders...!!!...). All other early 12 cyl. cars such as Austin, Haynes, Heine-Velox, Kissel, National, Packard and Pathfinder used Delco distributors.

 

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Edited by Peter R. (see edit history)
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