1923 Dodge seats

[cutdown]

After studying the attempt to redo my seat by a previous owner, I decided it was all wrong, so stripped it completely. I had to repar the 3 fore and afte braces then sort out the spring locations. The front of the seat frame now sits 8 1/2 inches high at the front. Looks like the original cloth covering of the frame showed it sat 7 1/2 inches high. My upholstery is approx 2 1/4 thick above this.   Does this seem right.

 

I also need to see photos of the details of the front seat, how it looks and how the back is secured to the seat frame. I haven't removed the back of the seat and it looks like a half assed attempt to install it.

two pics below show what i am up to. After fixing the frame, I loosely sewed a pc of synthetic canvas to the top. I cut a pc of carpet to fit over that and in the pic you can see the original pc of cushioning that came with the seat. The seat cover has been partially restored by me. 

The original owner had not narrowed the front edge of the cover where the tubing look joined the front skirt. As a result when they fixed the skirt to the frame, it had to be gather in various places because it was too wide compared to the seat. [ sorry I dont know what you call this type a seat design. the width of the "tubes was approx 88mm, but the material to do this was 95-100 mm wide. It should have tapered down to match the width of the "tube effect" of 88mm ]

 

The original repairer of this seat had winched the top done with a whole lot of nylon stockings so the the skirt they joined with the seat top was only 5 inches wide and the top frame was bent and twisted out of shape..

[MikeC5]

Hi Cutdown, I have a '25 but yours looks very similar.  My front seat spring measured at the forward edge was also about 8 &1/2 inches.  There wasn't much left of the original horse hair and leather but I think it was less than 2".  As for the seat back,  it has 3 hooks that secure the the top of the seat frame to slots in the sheet metal (see photo). The lower part of the frame has tabs with bolt holes.  Bolts secure the bottom of the frame  to captured nuts on sheet metal in places.  I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the pleats (tubes) narrowing where they meet the front skirt.  Do you mean less cotton inside the pleat?  I also attached a photo of front seat in a '25 that I saw at Hershey a few years ago.

[cutdown]

Thanks Mike. The previous owner has tacked the top of the seat back to the frame. Your pictures explain it well. The tubes I mentioned are like in your picture.  11 across the seat squab. Each "TUBE " measures approx 85-90 mm across [ stitching to stitching.   If you draw the ends across, you may spread the unfilled section to 110 mm.  if you stitch that to the skirt without tapering the ends of the tube, your skirt will measure up to  200 mm wider than your seat squab, so you have to pucker it to make it fit the base.

 

I think you get the drift.

 

Do you know if the seat base is compressed slightly when the upholstery is fitted. I am going to make up a "canvas" cover for the base prior to fitting the vinyl so need to know the size to make it.

 

All the best and many thanks. I can keep working now knowing what to expect.  I ordered enough of the vinyl last Thursday to finish the squab, and to make sure it is the same colour etc.

 

 

[MikeC5]

Hi Cutdown, I think I understand what you're saying now.  My guess would be that you need to stretch out the cover and flatten the tubes as much as they will be when final fitted to the spring assembly and then sew the front skirt on.  I'm not sure how exactly this would be done and I haven't gotten to that step yet on mine.  I think part of the question is, does the cotton stuffing inside the tube get tapered down thinner as it approaches the forward edge of seat?  In the last photo of my previous post, it does appear they somehow managed to keep the tube width constant right up to the skirt attachment.  Perhaps you can temporarily tack the seat cover the the springs, stretching and flattening out the tubes and then somehow pin the front skirt in place.  Then make a mark at each joint (between tubes) and a matching mark on the skirt.  Then when sewing on the skirt, you have to make sure you stretch out the tube enough so the marks line up before stitching that section.  I'll have to do some digging on Youtube and see what I can find....

 

I'm also planning to cover the spring assembly in canvas rather than burlap but do not know how much 'pre-compression' of the spring is considered normal.  Maybe we'll get a little advice from someone who has done this before.

[MikeC5]

In the last quarter of this video, he does give some clues about removing some of the stuffing to transition the end of the tube to flat.  But then he rolls over part of the pleat to keep the width constant which does not seem to be how it was done in the last photo from my previous post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re4ybTju-t4

[Mattml430]

2 hours ago, MikeC5 said:

In the last quarter of this video, he does give some clues about removing some of the stuffing to transition the end of the tube to flat.  But then he rolls over part of the pleat to keep the width constant which does not seem to be how it was done in the last photo from my previous post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re4ybTju-t4

That’s the same video I watched before I did my seats. 

[cutdown]

My seat squab was sewn without folding the top layer over before stitching. You can see the stitches.  Where he has demonstrated narrowing down the end by rolling over  the ends , I have narrowed down the ends by stitching from below to Vee the seem down to get the correct distance between seems on the flat surface. Its simply my way of working out what to do. I probably should have found a video like that, but my way does not create the directional roll at the end.   End result is  the same though.

My stuffing looks like old rags stuffed into nylon stockings, then pulled through.

 

Great video. Many thanks.

 

    I don't have an industrial sewing machine so I have hand stitched those seems as you can see. I will probably have to hand stitch the skirt to the squab as well.  When its fitted to the seat frame, the wrinkles will disappear.

[cutdown]

I have successfully rebuilt and re-upholstered the seat squab. It looks ok [ for a first time job ].

 

I removed the seat back frame and found that there are bits missing.  :Looking at Mikes picture, i am missing the 3 uprights that the seat is supposed to plug into and I am also missing the the matching pieces that plug into he previous 3 uprights, that are supposed to be connected to the seat-back frame. Someone has positioned a boxwood lattice  [ that is full of borer ] and just held up the frame with cotton straps tacked to the wooden bead around the seat back.

Looks like I am going to have to make up those bits. I also noticed the main seat frame is a bit flimsy. Have to sort that out as it form s the back of the cab in front of the tray.

Edited June 27, 2022 by cutdown
additional info (see edit history)

[cutdown]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:45 AM, MikeC5 said:

Hi Cutdown, I have a '25 but yours looks very similar.  My front seat spring measured at the forward edge was also about 8 &1/2 inches.  There wasn't much left of the original horse hair and leather but I think it was less than 2".  As for the seat back,  it has 3 hooks that secure the the top of the seat frame to slots in the sheet metal (see photo). The lower part of the frame has tabs with bolt holes.  Bolts secure the bottom of the frame  to captured nuts on sheet metal in places.  I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the pleats (tubes) narrowing where they meet the front skirt.  Do you mean less cotton inside the pleat?  I also attached a photo of front seat in a '25 that I saw at Hershey a few years ago.

Hi Mike. Are you able to show some extra shots of the back frame for the front seat and dimensions please.  The back of the main surface of my seat has had a section welded in probably as it must have been very rusty, and lost those 3 uprights pictured above.

Many thanks

 

Dereck

[MikeC5]

Hi Dereck,

Here are some more.

 

[cutdown]

Hi Mike. Thanks for that.  As you can see from the below photos, there quite a bit missing from mine. Mine has a wire frame around both edges whereas yours shows the solid frame [ which appears to be the rear frame for the seat ] that is attached to the car. The 2 rear uprights on mine are made of the same material as the 3 rear cross pieces. Yours shows  the rear frame is more solid looking with the  three cross pieces like mine attached to the solid frame and has 3 supporting wires attached between top and bottom of the front wire frame. Mine has 2 pairs of supporting wires that cross vertically between opposite wire frames  ie front wire  to back wire.  Looks like its true. All Dodges are not the same.

The front wire frame on mine is attached to the springs one coill back from the end as well.

[MikeC5]

Hi Dereck,

When I looked up the Lyonide Moose Black, I see it is sold from New Zealand, so I'm assuming you are from that part of the world.  Do you know if your Dodge was built locally?  If so, my understanding is that these were built on knock-down chassis kits from the US but the bodies were made locally.  I would think that means the springs/upholstery were also made locally and thus, could be different than US models.  It would probably be helpful if one of the members in the Australia/New Zealand area can post some photos of their similar vintage spring assemblies and how they are attached.  Your seat base looks like very similar construction to mine so there is also a possibility that the seat back wash trashed some time ago and what you have now was an attempt to get a seat back from some other car to fit (or is a homemade one).  

[cutdown]

Hi Mike. I think you are right. Looking at the photos of the seat frame, I can tell there are great similarities between yours and mine, so I think mine is original.  Its probable that whatever support was used, had rotted away and someone has improvised. There are signs where repairs have been made on my body that suggest it had got very rusty. Our climate conditions in NZ are not very car friendly. Not like Aussie where it is mainly dry perhaps. I presume you live in the States.

 

We'll get there. I am hoping to get my engine back this month so getting a bit concerned that I wont have the seat finished before I am ready to drive the car.

[cutdown]

Hi Mike. would it be possible to get a couple more photos of that seat back frame please. One looking down on it from above and a side look.  I think I am going to have to make up seat supports like yours is as I tend to think mine should be much the same as yours. The curved section at the top is the main detail I am not seeing at the moment.

 

Once I get further along with this seat restoration, I will give y0ou more exacting details on what I did and what I would do differently if/when I do this again.

 

Dereck

[MikeC5]

Hi Dereck,

I should have taken more photos of my original seat back springs before sending them out to be reproduced but I can get you measurements from the new ones that seem to fit pretty well (a little tweaking will be needed in a couple spots).  Here is a test fit I did.  I'll  be removing them today and will take more photos and measurements when they are back off the car.

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by MikeC5 (see edit history)

[cutdown]

Thanks Mike. Ii really like the way  the top of your seat frame has been finished [ looks like a shaped metal capping ]. Mine is basically a "U" channel with a few shaped square wood sections fitted, on which the seat upholstery has been tacked.[ looks bloody rough ].  I was wondering if I should make up a wooden capping to cover it, then saw yours above, so think I am on the right track. Mine is after all a modified tourer cut down into a flat decked truck, so the area I am talking about forms the back of my body. [ Its a bit too flimsy as it is ].

Looks like you have put a lot of work into reconstructing your seat. It all looks new, even your springs.

 

All the best from NZ. Winter has got colder over here  [ for us that is ]. Lots of rain too. Might have to be a day of thinking for me today as my lower back is feeling the effects of the 8 k run up and down our section of the Waipekakoura river this morning.

[cutdown]

Rain, rain, go away. Its the rainy season so what do expect.

I went to the DODGE today and fiddled around. There isn't much space to play with so have decided to make a flat steel strip around the back of the seat frame and attach wooded strip to it that will be in front of the wire border frame on my seat [ compressing the wire border between the strip of steel an. d strip of wood ]. That way I can complete the seat back in it entirety and fit it completely built up. The previous owners had just hung everything off the body frame behind the seat. I will fit 2 strips down each side, the top of which well be fastened by the bolts securing the handrail. the bottom will be held by 2 bolts through the join area between seat base and rear frame.  There will be corresponding vertical strips as part of the new seat border as well as a single strip up the middle to help hold the slight curve along the top of the seat.