Spar Varnish for Wood Spoke Wheels, Clear or Brownish Color?

[leomara]

Working on the wood spoke wheels on my 1928 Chrysler roadster and I'm undecided about the type/shade of spar varnish to use.  Opinions welcome.

[Larry Schramm]

Personal preference.  I lightly stained the wheels on my car and then used polyurethane varnish.

[Tom Boehm]

I am restoring a woodie station wagon. I use traditional oil base marine varnish. I use Pettit Captains #1015 and Pettit Flagship #2015. Epifanes is another comparable one. These are available from Jamestown Distributors and Hamilton Marine. I picked Pettit because I liked the golden brown tint to it but after it was on the car for a few months it aged to an amber anyway. I'm still very happy with the results. I did not use a stain. I have noticed other restorers on this forum have used Pettit and Epifanes on their wood wheels also. 

[Mark Shaw]

I agree with Larry; color is your preference.  My speedster wheels are natural with McCloskey Marine Spar Varnish (Red Can).  This varnish was made for extreme outdoor conditions on boats, exterior wood doors, etc.  And, you can recoat several times to renew the gloss finish.

MCCLOSKEY 6539 Marine Spar Gloss

Amazon $39.99 per qt.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[NewOldWood]

Most all marine spar varnishes are Tung oil based and will have an amber tint. The balance is made up of resins, uv filters, etc...there are minor differences in how they apply and dry. I have tried most and have not had a bad experience with a major name brand. One part polyurethanes are very similar to spar varnishes. Two part urethanes will not add any color.

[Rusty_OToole]

How many cars had varnished wheels when new? It may have been an option on expensive cars but most were painted. Does anyone have pictures of new cars with varnished wheels?

[JV Puleo]

Practically none...it's an artifact of the late 20th century. In period, when lots of things were made of wood, it was regarded as a cheap material (unless it was exotic or very decorative). Hickory spokes on wheels were neither and were most often painted. Yes...I know there are a few exceptions but if you look at period photos you very rarely see anything but painted wooden wheels...in fact, I don't remember ever seeing an original picture of a pre-1930 car with varnished wood wheels.

[cxgvd]

Not historical fact and I cannot prove but when I was restoring my 1915 McLaughlin C25 touring car I wanted clear varnished wooden spokes for the appearance.  I find it to be a plain looking car, the nickel trim and natural wood gives the car some appeal.  However when I removed the brake drums I expected to find blue paint and I did not, it was natural finish.  Doesn't prove anything, the wheels could have been stripped anytime before I got the project.  My 1913 Buick I painted the wheels body colour and they look wonderful too.

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

I like the natural wood wheels on my 1913 Model 31 Buick. 

The wheels balance the natural wood trim on top of the doors, firewall, etc.

 

[chistech]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:57 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

How many cars had varnished wheels when new? It may have been an option on expensive cars but most were painted. Does anyone have pictures of new cars with varnished wheels?

In 1932 it was a listed Oldsmobile option of painted or varnished. When I restored my own wheels, there was three layers of covering on them, each layer chemically removed one layer at a time.  A red that was painted last, over what appears to have been just the second covering on the wood and that was a canary yellow which matched the car’s second body color. The red that was applied last was also used on the doors saddles so both colors showed these wheel were definitely from my car and the red most likely added to change up the solid yellow the whole car had been painted. Under the yellow was definitely varnish as very little yellow ever penetrated the spokes. My wheels were, by the best forensic account, factory optioned varnish. My olds is a car where varnish was truthfully offered from the factory.

   I can produce the factory documentation on the options if you like. They also offered wire wheels so there were two wheel options, wood and wire, with to finish options on the wood wheels, painted or varnished. I believe it was a $10 option whether a 5 or 6 wheeled car.

[chistech]

Some today when doing “natural” spokes will bleach the wood with oxalic acid to really whiten them then automotive finish clear coat them. I personally don’t like the look as the wheel appears to pale in color plus has a shiny plastic look but that’s my personal opinion. With hickory, I like to see the light and dark graining but prefer it a medium brown so I used a mixture of turpentine, kerosene, and high quality Japanese pine tar to give my wheels a very distinctive color that still looks period correct. I then applied 14 coats of Pettits captains spar varnish. They do have other mixtures with have a lighter or darker amber tone to them.  Every single show I’ve put my car in, the wheels have been a major talking and interest point of the viewers including my recent Sr. Grand National this past weekend. Like was stated in this thread, I too like how the color of the natural hickory wheels compliments the tan roof along with the cream pinstriping.

[Oldtech]

Beautiful !

[30DodgePanel]

3 hours ago, chistech said:

In 1932 it was a listed Oldsmobile option of painted or varnished. When I restored my own wheels, there was three layers of covering on them, each layer chemically removed one layer at a time.  A red that was painted last, over what appears to have been just the second covering on the wood and that was a canary yellow which matched the car’s second body color. The red that was applied last was also used on the doors saddles so both colors showed these wheel were definitely from my car and the red most likely added to change up the solid yellow the whole car had been painted. Under the yellow was definitely varnish as very little yellow ever penetrated the spokes. My wheels were, by the best forensic account, factory optioned varnish. My olds is a car where varnish was truthfully offered from the factory.

   I can produce the factory documentation on the options if you like. They also offered wire wheels so there were two wheel options, wood and wire, with to finish options on the wood wheels, painted or varnished. I believe it was a $10 option whether a 5 or 6 wheeled car.

I agree 100%

 

I've read articles (Automotive Industries Statistical Issues hard back version, Confidential Bulletins, etc in the past 6 months) that showed several automakers of the time who provided natural wood wheels as options. Can't recall where those documents are currently but I'll post pics if I find them in my library. It may not have been a prevalent option, but it was an option for sure. I think a lot of people assume because they haven't seen original photos of varnished prewar wood wheels means that they never existed, nothing could be further from the truth, it simple means they haven't seen those photos yet. I think the demand was lower than that of the painted/striped option so that may be why it isn't as widely accepted as original by some today.

Similarly, years ago I was told by a mentor who studied DB cars (for decades prior to our meeting) that Dodge Brothers trucks never had pinstriping on the wheels but obviously that is not correct as I've uncovered countless original sales catalogs and brochures (not copies) showing painted and varnished wood wheels.  Most examples were pinstriped, but I do recall seeing some DB cars and/or trucks that came with clear finish some even had no pinstriping. 

 

Lastly, prior to 1929, Graham Brothers (made by Dodge Brothers - a division of Chrysler Corp by this time) had around 2000 combinations for truck types depending on what the customers' needs or desires were so varnishing wheels were certainly no major task.  Here is a sample of a 1930 3/4 ton truck with dual side mounts. Keep in mind no one I've spoken to or any article in DB articles (that I've come across) has ever mentioned dual mounts on a 1930 3/4 ton as an option yet here we have photographic evidence of both pinstriped wheels and dual mounts on a brand new 3/4 ton truck on it's first day of use for a well known DC Department Store dated 1930, photo is part of a 1500 page hard cover Ross Roy Sales Book. Side note, notice the King Bee jeweled step plates. I recently found a pair so these extra types of goodies do still exist, I must admit I practically gave up looking for them when I found them. Granted some features in the photo below may be after market items added later for cosmetic appeal but wheels are all factory options that were available and I'm only using DB trucks as an example, surely countless other makers were just as capable of producing options for a particular cliental base. 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[WPVT]

I use a tinted spray lacquer that's made for guitar refinishing for making refinished wood look less new and raw. This is a clear lacquer with a very subtle amber tint. The more coats you use, the darker it gets. Very different effect than using a stain on wood, which absorbs unevenly into the grain.  I actually use the tinted lacquer on all kinds of materials that I would like to appear less new. It's been a valuable tool for making new parts on an old car look right. 

[30DodgePanel]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:57 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

How many cars had varnished wheels when new? It may have been an option on expensive cars but most were painted. Does anyone have pictures of new cars with varnished wheels?

It was more common than some of us have realized (myself included). 

 

Here's a 1926 Dodge Brothers Special Roadster sales brochure that showed them. Notice it says the spoke wheels came with a natural finish and was standard.  

 

This is just one example, but I recall seeing others in a lengthy Automobile Industries article and other literature that I'm still trying to locate, will post that information when I locate it.
 

With a new price of $845-$955 the DB Roadster definitely wasn't a high end car like Auburn, Packard or Duesenberg. In the Dodge Story by Thomas McPherson on page 49 he described how the 1926 DB Special Touring also had natural wood spokes with prices ranging from $845-$975. Edit: According to the same source material, it appears the 1924 and 1925 a similar Dodge Brothers Roadster were also natural wood spokes with the disc wheels being an option. Never knew that until I starting looking for those details.

As I mentioned previously, by the late 1920s Dodge Brothers trucks had around 1,845 different combinations that you could order from. I don't recall ever taking note of how many trucks I've seen with natural spokes, but one can easily see that if the customer ordered it then it would not have been difficult to fullfill that order. Have I ever made note of photos of DB or GB trucks with natural wheels, no, but that doesn't mean they never existed.

 

After all, how many of us were there when these cars and trucks were new to know for sure how prevalent natural wheels may have been. This is how wrong information is handed down from one generation to the next especially since we've just assumed they were all painted.  Also, weren't most of the early photos black and white with very low pixelation making it difficult to distinguish? For years I'd looked at cars like this roadster below and assumed it had cream painted spokes with stripes. I was dead wrong in my assumption.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[chistech]

Until one does the research, the facts are never really known. Like many others, I knew virtually nothing about the specifics of old cars. I knew I always liked them and wanted one but couldn’t give anyone very detailed specifics about any particular car because I didn’t own one. I.did learn a fair amount about theFord Model T and Martin-Parry because my dad bought a 23 depot hack and I restored a lot of it at 15 years old. Learned about wheel options like demountable rims and just enough to understand the truck better but that was the extent of my knowledge. 
       Being older, and purchasing a car I could, at the time, find very little about, inspired me to do a lot of research on that car, especially because I wanted to do a very correct restoration. I actually did over three years of extensive work in factory literature comparing the literature to my car and others.  Ended up discussing my findings with the few considered the most knowledgeable. Some of my findings surprised them and hours of conversation resulted. It turns out, as a group, we all learned more and that many things weren’t as they were believed to be by the masses. And it’s the masses who continue to spread misinformation or conjecture, often, without even knowing because they never did  real world research of their own. 
        As I stated earlier, I really don’t know a lot about specifics of old cars but I do know the 32 Oldsmobile extensively. I’ve had many people tell me things, including knowledgeable judges, that things are wrong on my car. Now I understand no one knows everything, but bluntly stating something is incorrect rather than questioning if something is incorrect is often what we encounter in many places, from car shows to the pages of these forums. I can say one of the best run judging teams I’ve ever encountered was when I went for my 1st GN. After the team originally looked at my car the head judge motioned for me. After politely introducing himself, he asked why I installed the aftermarket glass jar/carburetor solution system. Truthfully, he asked the question wrong as It assumes I added something that wasn’t original to the car but I realized he was just repeating the engine judge’s question. I explained that what they saw was factory, went to my folder of documentation, and produced it. The head judge was quite pleased with me having the documentation but the engine judge, who looked over our shoulder, walked away shaking his head and it appeared he still didn’t believe me. Then as I went to walk away, theHJ called me back. He then pointed to my stone guard and before he could say anything, I told him what I thought his question was. Why does my stoneguard have a round hole in it when the crank cover behind it is square and larger than the hole. He shook his head that I was correct in my statement then said, “your guard is incorrect”. I then said, no, it is correct, and again produced the factory literature showing my stone guard, with the round hole. He commented that he loved people that came prepared, apologized for doubting my restoration, and then thanked me for educating him on the 32 olds. 
      The reason I posted all this is because I see and hear so much of it everywhere, from car shows to these forums, from car related things to politics. Many, many people simply repeat what they’ve heard, often because they heard it from someone who is considered a professional or expert, so it must be worth repeating. People would rather repeat what they’ve heard or believe what they’ve been told than take the time to personally research it. People are simply lazy and if they can skip the learning, they will. We do need to realize though, because you personally haven’t seen something or experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But also simply believing someone else’s statements because they’ve seen or done something is wrong also. My dad taught me long ago to believe only what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears, then only believe it to be true, half the time! What it comes down to is we SHOULD learn something new everyday and strive to do exactly that. If we all did, the world would look quite different.

[30DodgePanel]

Guessing this is a Chandler with natural wood wheels?

Alhambra CA 1930

 

 

[erichill]

Stripped the yellow paint from my Chandler rims and used clear spar varnish. I like the finished color and grain that you can see. 

[viv w]

Leo,

 According to the Chrysler parts manual, the series 72 Chrysler wood wheels were supplied painted, they were not supplied with varnished or natural wood wheels

 regards

Viv,