Celebration of the Authentic Car II - May 20, Duluth, GA

[gwells]

 

[gwells]

The Celebration of the Authentic Car will occur next Saturday, May 21, at the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA.

If you have a car that meets our criteria, I beg you to please bring it. If you don't, or have a car that doesn't meet the criteria to be placed on the show field, please attend the event to support the show and the Southeastern Railway Museum. Your non-authentic car will be parked just a few feet from the qualifying cars.

If we get a reasonable attendance, we'll do it again next year. If not, the event will not continue in the future.

So many of the people who have heard of this show have indicated that they want to attend more shows like this. Here's your opportunity to make sure that happens.

[vintage1]

Don’t have a car that qualifies but I will be at the show. Have been to the museum many times, it is a great facility.

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

I have plenty that qualify but the event is 3,000 miles away!

[1937hd45]

Back in the 1950s and 1960s we called them UNmodified cars, then some semantics expert decided to come up with his definition. I'll give the thread a three page run within a week. 

[gwells]

I struggled regarding what to call the gathering. Cribbed the name from the Celebration of the Brass Car event held at the Gilmore museum.

[gwells]

2 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

I have plenty that qualify but the event is 3,000 miles away!

Sadly, I have heard the same thing from numerous people.

But your and their responses indicate that a car show using this criteria is of interest to a significant number of enthusiasts.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

So... I'm wondering. Duluth isn't a common name. Why are there two Duluths – One in Minnesota and one in Georgia?

[Paul Dobbin]

If we can make it down there we'll bring our Glidden Tour Car. a 1934 Ford Fordor.

 

[Terry Bond]

Sounds like it should be an AACA meet.

 

Terry 9am

[gwells]

Terry,

 

Someone a few days ago suggested we discuss restarting the Southeastern AACA chapter. I'd be up for that.

 

1 hour ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

So... I'm wondering. Duluth isn't a common name. Why are there two Duluths – One in Minnesota and one in Georgia?

I don't know, but will try to find out.

[gwells]

38 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

If we can make it down there we'll bring our Glidden Tour car, a 1934 Ford Fordor.

 

Had a very nice chat with Paul a couple of hours ago. Sincerely hope he can attend the CotAC show.

[Terry Bond]

9 minutes ago, gwells said:

Someone suggested we discuss restarting the Southeastern AACA chapter a few days ago.

That would be great. If there is lots of interest in that kind of car for either show, exhibition, or touring, then it sounds like a natural. 

 

Terry

[Buffalowed Bill]

If you will permit a little editorial license in a thread introducing an event, we in the old car hobby are in a cultural struggle, pitting the preservationist against everyone else. We who own original cars often have to come to grips with the reality that our cars are not as perfect as a restored car, and not as glitzy as a customized car. Our cars will seldom win a trophy at a show. The lack of recognition by the public can be very unsatisfying for the car owner. For some owners it is very difficult to put the car above their egos. It saddens me to see so many cars succumb to to owners' egos.

 

Meets like we are discussing can go a long way towards bridging the divide between originality and ego. The cars are out there. The people who appreciate these cars abide as well. It just takes this kind of event to put the two together.  

[gwells]

24 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

That would be great. If there is lots of interest in that kind of car for either show, exhibition, or touring, then it sounds like a natural. 

And that's really what this inaugural CotAC show is all about... to determine if there is sufficient interest and support for shows for other than modified, custom, and hot rod cars in the greater Atlanta area.

[Buffalowed Bill]

27 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

Sounds like it should be an AACA meet.

For some of us the closest AACA chapter or event is at least a thousand miles away. In Pacific NW we have the survivors but no shows to take them. Cruise nights or single marque events are all that we have.

[gwells]

13 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

The cars are out there. The people who appreciate these cars abide as well. It just takes this kind of event to put the two together.  

Exactly! I know the cars are out there and I realize the problems in terms of traffic in this area.

For me, it's all about history, a subject that IMO is not being taught very well in most school systems, if at all.

[Matt Harwood]

Our Stan Hywet Father's Day car show has been for stock, unmodified vehicles for decades. It's currently the longest-running car show in the country (64 years). No hot rods, no customs, no modified cars. The guys with the rods whine a bit but everyone who attends (7,000+ attendees most years) says they appreciate the show's dedication to originality. It is unique in that regard.

 

That said, you need to be ready for people with modified cars to lie and cheat to get into the show. They'll tell you their car isn't modified to get on the show field, but what shows up is pretty far from stock. The modified car owners will also get very angry when you tell them they shouldn't be there. They also get angry when they don't win trophies, which we usually handle by pulling out the judging sheets which show they have the wrong paint, wrong engine, wrong wheels, wrong interior, wrong gauges, etc. On our entry form, we also have entrants specifically sign a line saying "I certify that my vehicle is not modified in any significant way." They'll still lie and sign it, but it did cut down on the number of highly modified cars that show up on the day of the show.

 

Also be prepared for them to get REALLY angry if you turn them away at the gate. We don't really do that just to avoid making a scene, but we do point out that this isn't the show for their car and to please respect the rules in the future. That also makes them angry, but I like to ask them whether they'd be angry if they took their Mustang to a Corvette show and the Corvette guys told them it was inappropriate--that sometimes chills them out.

 

Bottom line? You're going to get a lot of guys who will lie their way onto the show field and then get angry when you call them on it. Be ready for that.

[gwells]

Matt,

 

I have been ruminating on this aspect for a while, to the extent that I have asked my friends in the the local police department to hang around during the first part of the day.

 

I'll be the guy making the call as to whether a car goes on the show field or into the parking lot. One ameliorating factor (I hope!) is that the parking lot is alongside the show field. And it won't bother me one bit if we have adjacent areas with authentic cars in one and hot rods in the other.

One more concerning factor is that if someone wants to attend the event, they either have to bring a car that meets the show's criteria (and to make donation to the museum at any level) or they have to pay the museum admission fee, as this is an event being held to benefit the 501(c)3 Southeastern Railway Museum, which a largely run by volunteers. In the past, that has generated some friction during other car shows at SRM.

 

As regards trophies, we're only doing a people's choice voting system, with a 'Best of Show" and a "Car I'd Like Really To Own." That's it...

 

[Matt Harwood]

17 minutes ago, gwells said:

As regards trophies, we're only doing a people's choice voting system, with a 'Best of Show" and a "Car I'd Like Really To Own." That's it...

Make sure your voting form says they have to vote for TWO cars for each category, otherwise you'll get a few hundred ballots with everyone voting for their own car.

[gwells]

Matt,

 

I'll go bonkers if we get a "few hundred ballots." LOL.

[alsancle]

Any activity where there are rules that exclude people always causes problems. The CCCA approved list has been generating bad feelings for decades.

 

You guys know how I feel about the modified stuff. It’s the easy way out when we can bolt anything on. And most of the time, the wheels especially look completely freaking stupid.

[wayne sheldon]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

That said, you need to be ready for people with modified cars to lie and cheat to get into the show. They'll tell you their car isn't modified to get on the show field, but what shows up is pretty far from stock. The modified car owners will also get very angry when you tell them they shouldn't be there. They also get angry when they don't win trophies, which we usually handle by pulling out the judging sheets which show they have the wrong paint, wrong engine, wrong wheels, wrong interior, wrong gauges, etc. On our entry form, we also have entrants specifically sign a line saying "I certify that my vehicle is not modified in any significant way." They'll still lie and sign it, but it did cut down on the number of highly modified cars that show up on the day of the show.

 

Also be prepared for them to get REALLY angry if you turn them away at the gate. We don't really do that just to avoid making a scene, but we do point out that this isn't the show for their car and to please respect the rules in the future. That also makes them angry, but I like to ask them whether they'd be angry if they took their Mustang to a Corvette show and the Corvette guys told them it was inappropriate--that sometimes chills them out.

 

Bottom line? You're going to get a lot of guys who will lie their way onto the show field and then get angry when you call them on it. Be ready for that.

Our Model T club had that problem for decades with their Model T era "Speedster/Racer Endurance Run."  It started out as Model Ts only and supposed to be Model T era only, but speed equipment into the 1930s and later kept creeping in. Then some members wanted to allow non-Ts to run. "Why not? They're fun, too?" Annual events of more than fifty mostly-authentic era speedster/racers plus fifty to eighty era stock automobiles turned so bad that only twelve Model T speedsters (only one proper era -orrect!) and fifteen other cars showed up. The club seriously discussed discontinuing the event after about twenty years because it got so bad. 

 

A last-ditch effort to return to era-correct saved the event, but resulted in lengthy battles over what was or wasn't allowed. Strict adherence to era-correct rules brought out better cars, and better cars brought out more cars! The event has now been going for more than fifty years. The numbers now are not as good as they had been. But still good. The old battles still continue, and new battles over where to hold the event due to loss of good roads for the slower cars have been added. 

 

Sadly, I have not been able to attend for almost ten years now. But I read the tour reports every year, and it is still an event I hope to attend again soon.

 

This new event sounds wonderful to me! If my situation does get better, and if I wasn't 3,000 miles away, it would be something I would love to go to!

[gwells]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:42 PM, Hudsy Wudsy said:

So... I'm wondering. Duluth isn't a common name. Why are there two Duluths – One in Minnesota and one in Georgia?

I put this question to Candace Morgan, head of the Duluth Historical Society, and she gave me the full story. The town in Minnesota came first and was named for Daniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut (1636–1710), a French captain and explorer of the upper Midwest, who negotiated peace between the Chippewa and the Sioux nation. 

The city's former name was Howell's Crossing, named for Evan P. Howell who operated a cottton gin in the area on the Chattahoochee River. It was renamed "Duluth" in 1871, after the city of Duluth, Minnesota. The Midwestern city had gotten its own Congress-funded railroad connection not long before, which had prompted Rep. J. Proctor Knott, a Kentucky Democrat, to make a speech in Congress mocking the project as wasteful. That speech drew national attention. According to contemporary reports, Evan P. Howell himself jokingly suggested the name change in a speech about the arrival of railroad service in the Georgia town and the suggestion was adopted.

BTW Candace says there are more than two Duluths in the US; five she thought.

[West Peterson]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:00 PM, Buffalowed Bill said:

If you will permit a little editorial license in a thread introducing an event, we in the old car hobby are in a cultural struggle, pitting the preservationist against everyone else. We who own original cars often have to come to grips with the reality that our cars are not as perfect as a restored car, and not as glitzy as a customized car. Our cars will seldom win a trophy at a show. The lack of recognition by the public can be very unsatisfying for the car owner. For some owners it is very difficult to put the car above their egos. It saddens me to see so many cars succumb to to owners' egos.

 

Meets like we are discussing can go a long way towards bridging the divide between originality and ego. The cars are out there. The people who appreciate these cars abide as well. It just takes this kind of event to put the two together.  

 

I'm not sure, or maybe I'm not fully understanding what you're trying to say in regard to Greg's show, but I think you're confusing "authentic" with "original." The show that Greg is holding does not disqualify a car for being restored. Greg is trying to promote a show for cars that are unmodified. Cars that have never been restored, AND properly and authentically restored cars are both welcome.

[ch1929]

I drove my 1923 Dodge Brothers (unrestored) to a Car Show a couple of weeks ago, about a 30 mile round trip . Of of the several hundred cars there were only 4 cars from the thirties or earlier, one was a Model A Rat Rod and another was a Willys Street Rod. The other car was a very nicely restored brass Model T Touring. I must say that I had more people asking me questions about the car then I have had in a long time. 

Kinda funny,  I was parked next to the dirt road that served as the entrance to the show field and parking for spectators. That created a lot of dust that started to cover the show cars. Parked next to me was a 2022 Corvette who's owner had a hard time brushing of the dust every 30 minutes or so to keep clean. At one point he mentioned to me about trying to keep it clean and I told him it made my car look like a barn find!

 

[Hudsy Wudsy]

On 5/16/2022 at 9:58 AM, gwells said:

I put this question to Candace Morgan, head of the Duluth Historical Society, and she gave me the full story. The town in Minnesota came first and was named for Daniel Greysolon, Sieur du Lhut (1636–1710), a French captain and explorer of the upper Midwest, who negotiated peace between the Chippewa and the Sioux nation. 

The city's former name was Howell's Crossing, named for Evan P. Howell who operated a cottton gin in the area on the Chattahoochee River. It was renamed "Duluth" in 1871, after the city of Duluth, Minnesota. The Midwestern city had gotten its own Congress-funded railroad connection not long before, which had prompted Rep. J. Proctor Knott, a Kentucky Democrat, to make a speech in Congress mocking the project as wasteful. That speech drew national attention. According to contemporary reports, Evan P. Howell himself jokingly suggested the name change in a speech about the arrival of railroad service in the Georgia town.

BTW Candace says there are more than two Duluths in the US, five she thought.

Thank you very much for that detailed response to my question. I can't imagine five Duluths!

[West Peterson]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:42 PM, Hudsy Wudsy said:

So... I'm wondering. Duluth isn't a common name. Why are there two Duluths – One in Minnesota and one in Georgia?

 

Interesting question, because I have a feeling that it would be very, very rare for a city name in the U.S. not having at least one "sister" city within our borders. 

 

Also, a very interesting answer to this question.

[JACK M]

A Google search,

 

Did You Know There Are 7 Cities In The US Named Duluth?

• Duluth Kansas. Google Street View St. ...
• Duluth, Nevada. (Photo by Charles McQuillan/Getty Images) ...
• Duluth, WA. Google Street View. ...
• Duluth, Kentucky. Google Street vew. ...
• Duluth, Georgia. Google Street View. ...
• Duluth, Nebraska. (Photo by Joe Raedle/Getty Images) ...
• Duluth, Minnesota.

[1937hd45]

7 hours ago, ch1929 said:

I drove my 1923 Dodge Brothers (unrestored) to a Car Show a couple of weeks ago, about a 30 mile round trip . Of of the several hundred cars there were only 4 cars from the thirties or earlier, one was a Model A Rat Rod and another was a Willys Street Rod. The other car was a very nicely restored brass Model T Touring. I must say that I had more people asking me questions about the car then I have had in a long time. 

Kinda funny,  I was parked next to the dirt road that served as the entrance to the show field and parking for spectators. That created a lot of dust that started to cover the show cars. Parked next to me was a 2022 Corvette who's owner had a hard time brushing of the dust every 30 minutes or so to keep clean. At one point he mentioned to me about trying to keep it clean and I told him it made my car look like a barn find!

 

What type of "Car Show" allows a 2022 Corvette a parking spot on the "Show Field"? Nice DB! 

[gwells]

On 5/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, West Peterson said:

Interesting question, because I have a feeling that it would be very, very rare for a city name in the U.S. not having at least one "sister" city within our borders. 

My home town of Tullahoma, Tennessee, is the only existing town of that name as far as I know. There once was a second Tullahoma in Mississippi or Missouri, but it merged with another city IIRC and dropped the name.

[gwells]

On 5/16/2022 at 2:03 PM, 1937hd45 said:

What type of "Car Show" allows a 2022 Corvette a parking spot on the "Show Field"? 

What is termed an ‘open car show,’ which is just about all we have around here these days.

[Steve9]

That’s my kinda show guys. Except 2,600 miles away. I think the time is right for these old timers stock shows. Have a great time!

[gwells]

I think some of you guys ought to consider relocating to the sunny south… LOL!

[Steve9]

Sounds great. This spring we’ve had record rain and cold. Not old car driving weather.

[gwells]

Heard today that we should have a Thomas Flyer coming, as well as a Pope-Hartford. It's very gratifying to anticipate this kind of support for the CotAC concept.

[kgreen]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:16 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Our Stan Hywet Father's Day car show has been for stock, unmodified vehicles for decades. It's currently the longest-running car show in the country (64 years). No hot rods, no customs, no modified cars. The guys with the rods whine a bit but everyone who attends (7000+ attendees most years) says they appreciate the show's dedication to originality. It is unique in that regard.

 

That said, you need to be ready for people with modified cars to lie and cheat to get into the show. They'll tell you their car isn't modified to get on the show field, but what shows up is pretty far from stock. The modified car owners will also get very angry when you tell them they shouldn't be there. They also get angry when they don't win trophies, which we usually handle by pulling out the judging sheets which show they have the wrong paint, wrong engine, wrong wheels, wrong interior, wrong gauges, etc. On our entry form, we also have entrants specifically sign a line saying "I certify that my vehicle is not modified in any significant way." They'll still lie and sign it, but it did cut down on the number of highly modified cars that show up on the day of the show.

 

Also be prepared for them to get REALLY angry if you turn them away at the gate. We don't really do that just to avoid making a scene, but we do point out that this isn't the show for their car and to please respect the rules in the future. That also makes them angry, but I like to ask them whether they'd be angry if they took their Mustang to a Corvette show and the Corvette guys told them it was inappropriate--that sometimes chills them out.

 

Bottom line? You're going to get a lot of guys who will lie their way onto the show field and then get angry when you call them on it. Be ready for that.

 

Hmmm:

Entry fee for stock, unmodified cars is $15.  Entry fee for nonstock, modified cars is $500.

 

I guess you're still going to have someone pissed off. Reminds me of the old college days at the frat, we were a lowly bunch that threw keg parties with a $1 admission for all you could drink. Amazing, the excuses one could hear for someone trying to save a buck and get in free.

[gwells]

Was it Lincoln who said, "The surest path to failure is to try to please all the people all the time"?

The basic concept of the CotAC show is to attempt to fill a void in the greater Atlanta car show 'scene.' To hold a show where unmodified cars, restored or not, are, well... celebrated and displayed to the public, other owners of similar cars, and people who appreciate the history of the vehicles.

 

It's basically a test case to determine whether a show of this nature will receive sufficient 'buy-in' from the owners of authentic cars to indicate the validity of the concept and to also indicate whether it is worthwhile trying to continue the event in the Atlanta area in the future. We'll know in a few days, but if the people who have contacted me to tell me what cars they're bringing show up, it's going to be a very interesting day in terms of quality of the vehicles.

[kgreen]

https://www.train-museum.org/event/celebration-of-authentic-cars/

 

 

[Grimy]

The website above says "original condition" and I fear you may lose some restored or refurbished cars if you keep this verbiage, because many more cars are authentic than are "original."  If I understand you correctly, you want "authentic" unmodified cars and both "original condition" (factory finishes) and refurbished/restored (duplication of factory finishes) are acceptable.  In other words, the purple Franklin in another thread is NOT acceptable 🙂

Edited May 17, 2022 by Grimy
deleted one word (see edit history)