MikeC5 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) This may be a bit esoteric but maybe someone has run into this before. I'm remaking the seat base spring assemblies for my '25 DB (they were rusted beyond redemption) and have just realized that I cannot find replacement coils with near the top/bottom diameter of the original coils (~ 3.5"). I've looked and looked but everything I find at places that sell these springs are 4 1/4 to 4.5" diameter. What's the big deal? None, I hope. What it means is that I will have to reduce the number of coils to fit in the same frame (45 vs. 31). The diagrams show what I mean. My question is will the reduced number of larger diameter springs make for an unsupportive/uncomfortable seat? Does anyone know of a source that sells coils closer to the 3.5" diameter? Edited May 10 by MikeC5 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Out of curiosity how did you measure the 8.77D angle and 81.23DR?................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 (edited) Hi Bob, I did the best I could with a protractor and (eye balled) tangent points between end of radius and straight section. The accuracy was not better than a degree despite my extra significant digits. This is what was left of the original spring... Edited May 11 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viv w Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Snyders model A parts make spring bases, with your old samples they can probably make you new ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 And they do beautiful work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 I know Snyder's does this and I did use them to recreate the seat backs which were more complex due to the 3D shape of the frame. I wanted to do the bases myself since they are relatively simple (having them made ain't cheap either). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 No, Snyder's isn't cheap but they sure do nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 3 hours ago, Restorer32 said: No, Snyder's isn't cheap but they sure do nice work. But think of all the work that goes into the springs and I think they really are inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 (edited) Perhaps but I also like to get experience and learn some new skills during the way. The seat bases are simple enough that I'm giving it a try (see my thread over in DB section) https://forums.aaca.org/topic/377743-fabricating-seat-spring-assembly/#comment-2369335 Edited May 14 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Looks like an old bed mattress would give you everything you need from springs to cotton batting and because they cost money to get rid of they are usually free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Check for bedbugs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 This is a timely post. I have been considering the replacement of the sinuous or zig zag springs in a modern (only 50 ish) car with coil springs to try for a real luxury feel seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 While you are measuring springs, breakout your calipers and see if the springs around the edge of the seat are bigger diameter wire. This was commonly done to provide different support for different parts of one’s butt…. Many times on seat cushions, they were either different spring rates or doubled up on ends. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Thanks for the tip David. I will double check this. One thing I also recently found out; there is more than one standard that define the diameter of wire to 'gage'. It appears the most common one is the AWG (American Wire Gage) which seems to be used only for conductors (as in electrical wiring). Then there is U.S. Standard Gage, which is significantly different. I need to contact some of these suppliers and ask for the actual wire diameter to avoid confusion.... https://www.pyromation.com/Catalog/w03.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 (edited) An old mattress or two might give you some of the springs but not all. The springs vary in height, front to back. On the front cushion, they go from 4" to 8" (4, 5, 6, 7, 8). This is what gives the seat a wedge shape which, I believe, is to provide thigh support. The rear seat cushion goes 5, 6, 7, 8, 9" springs. Because of the hourglass shape of them, I don't think trying to cut down longer ones to makes shorter ones would work very well (you would end up with different diameters on the large end depending on how much is trimmed off). Edited May 16 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 My first job out of the service was working for an engineering company that custom made machines for assembly lines and my first lesson on the job was that if you are going to work with a spring you need to be smarter than the spring. Older flippable mattresses have large loops on both ends, don't clip the loops on the top side and don't worry about the bottom side, springs can be bent to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 17 Author Share Posted May 17 (edited) Thanks Digger. One other thing that I can't seem to nail down is what gauge definition is used for these types of springs? Retail suppliers advertise 8 or 9 gauge springs but none of them can tell me what diameter wire they're made from (calipers are in short supply, it seems). There are a few different gauge definitions; AWG, SWG, Birmingham, Music wire, etc.. All of these have a different diameter (in inches) for a 9 gauge wire. I'd like to be sure I'm getting springs with the same (or close) wire diameter. Anyone have any insight on this? Edited May 17 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 AWG would be the most common especially if not specified. Maybe just ask what definition is being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 I sent notes to a couple of manufacturers and asked a few suppliers to ask their suppliers. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/17/2022 at 10:40 AM, MikeC5 said: Anyone have any insight on this? Wire gage and material type are manufacturing specs, retailer's sell from product sheets that list size shape and strength. Two visually identical springs can have two tremendously different compression tensions depending on manufacturing process and material composition. Metallurgy has advanced a bit over the last hundred years and you might not find the same gage shape and strength as the springs that were made in 1925, but you should be able to find new springs that will work. Companies like Sealy and The Original Mattress Factory are still making coil spring mattresses the old fashion way and would probably be your best source for information and supplies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/13/2022 at 7:12 PM, Digger914 said: Looks like an old bed mattress would give you everything you need from springs to cotton batting and because they cost money to get rid of they are usually free. I was going that direction for my 1920 Dodge, but the springs were designed for the weight to be spread out over them, not all in one place so do not support the weight directly on them very well. The wire used is not real heavy like what would be used for car seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Mark Gregush said: I was going that direction for my 1920 Dodge, but the springs were designed for the weight to be spread out over them, not all in one place so do not support the weight directly on them very well. The wire used is not real heavy like what would be used for car seats. Not all mattresses have the same springs, or are all spring mattress made the same way and individual coils support weight differently than interconnected coils. Mattresses come in soft, medium, firm and if you special order, extra firm. I'm 6'3' 230lbs have a fist full of bad disks in my back so I sleep on an extra firm mattress with a board underneath and have no problem with the mattress squishing own when I sit on the edge. Got my new mattress from The Original Mattress Factory and because their factory is also a showroom, I got to see how mattresses are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 I realize that I won't find exact duplicates of the original springs (unless maybe I have them custom made) but at least in outward appearance, these hourglass upholstery springs look pretty much the same. I suspect there aren't that many manufacturers of them and retail supplies come from the same few factories. Short of designing a spring to match the originals (including estimating the spring constant from the old springs) and having them made, the best I can do is try to match the shape, number of turns and wire diameter. I certainly won't hurt to try asking one of the mattress manufacturers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 19 Author Share Posted May 19 It seems Restoration Supply co. actually tells you the spring wire diameter in inches (0.135")... what a concept. But they do not specify the gauge so I'm still looking for that Rosetta Stone. Too bad they're twice the price of many upholstery supply places. https://restorationstuff.com/shop/#fb0=49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 https://www.tdiinternational.com/technical-source-product-info/conversion-charts-awg-to-inches/ Here you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 (edited) As I mentioned in an earlier post, the vendors do not know if AWG is the measurement system used. Unfortunately, AWG isn't the only measurement system to call wire diameter 'gauge'. I posted this link earlier which shows that a given gauge wire diameter can differ considerably depending on which measurement system is used..... https://www.pyromation.com/Catalog/w03.pdf If I could get them to put a caliper on a spring, I could deduce which system is used.... Edited May 20 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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