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Questions about a watch fob on evil-bay


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I collect automotive related watch fobs (among many other things) and have been at it for over 25 years.  I've learned a bit along the way, and of course made a few mistakes too (don't all of us?).

This one showed up recently on the internet advertised as "Antique Vintage Brass era Automobile HCS Stutz watch fob."  The seller seemed convinced it is what he said. 

 

I have some concerns about it - First, the lettering.  If the emblem really advertises a HCS automobile, would Harry Clayton Stutz have had the first letter of his middle name larger than the others - especially the letter "S"?

 

The big concern to me is the date on it - 1913. 

 

Harry C. Stutz did produce a "HCS" automobile in 1915, but it was a "junior" of the 1915 Stutz Bearcat.  It was only produced one year and less than 100 were estimated to have been made.  An example of the radiator emblem is shown below. (photo courtesy of Americanautoemblems.com).

 

I would assume the watch fob would replicate that emblem, as was commonly done.   Note the date of this car is 1915, two years after the 1913 date on the fob. 

 

Harry C. Stutz of course left the Stutz company and started the HCS company in 1919.  He produced the HCS automobile on his own, introducing the 1920 model in late 1919.   The seller is unable to explain how a watch fob clearly dated 1913 advertises a car that did not exist yet.

 

Another concern is the quality of the fob itself.  It clearly lacks the quality of the Stutz fobs in my collection, including this beautifully enameled version.  I've learned over the years also that very few fobs were ever manufactured without the fob maker's logo on the back side.  I've learned a lot about detecting fakes, re-strikes and fantasy items.

 

Last two pics are a genuine Stutz watch fob, clearly marked on the back as having been produced by L.F.Grammes, Allentown, PA.

 

I can still learn though, and invite your comment on this particular fob.  I think it's incorrectly identified and has no relationship to Harry Clayton Stutz, HCS, or the Stutz company.  It could be a souvenir fob for some "central high school" 1913 graduating class. 

 

What do you think?

Terry

 

Terry

HCS on evilbay.jpg

HCS 1915 emblem.jpg

Sturz enamelled version.jpg

Stutz enamelled version back side.jpg

Edited by Terry Bond (see edit history)
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  • Terry Bond changed the title to Questions about a watch fob on evil-bay

My opinion is that it’s from a High School class and is being misrepresented by either a seller that is ignorant of the facts or a seller who is intending to do so.

 

 Only my opinion but you have given the same points I based my opinion on when I looked at the same fob on eBay…

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  • 1 month later...

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with Stutz. It's more likely it is someone's initials or the initials of a company. Following the conventions of the time in monograms, the "C" is probably the last name....there would be no good reason to emphasize the middle name.

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A friend sent this to me recently - I guess it is pretty clear the fob in my original post has nothing to do with Stutz.  I'm more positive than ever that the initials "H" and "S" stand for High School.

Terry

1913 watch fob.jpg

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