Westinghouse Air Spring Option

[Ittenbacher Frank]

[Ittenbacher Frank]

I bought another small air spring-souvenier: An advertising postcard dated April 1913. Who can identify the handwriting?

 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

My best guess: It is written by the boss to his employees: "The best time you send out advertisments see that you put enough Postage on them - Westinghouse", what do you think?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

I found one more of these postcards, dated June 1913:

 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

My guess: "If you had put ??? in I would have considered it". Seems a different handwriting compared to the previous card?

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Ittenbacher Frank]

I found an article from the SAE archives dated 1924, referring about "Air springs and the measurement of riding quality". The author, John T McElroy, explains on more than 50 pages how to determine the riding quality, how axle acceleration, vibration period, amplitudes and frequencies and all these elements contribute to the "roadability", he explained the measuring apparati, their way of conducting the tests with various chassis over a defined test course (driving over square planks of 2 3/4 inch heigt x 5 1/2 inch wide at a speed of 15 mph), shows the summary of test data, and finally explains the result: Air springs are much more efficient than steel springs only, or steel-rubber-combinations.

All this is very theoretical and probably not very interesting for you, but in the final chapter he describes the necessary precision during manufacturing and assembly of air springs, in order to get the desired results. I was happy to see the machining, hardening, polishing and assembling, reading about the preparation of leather seals before installation. They used a "dancing machine" for breaking in the new air springs, in order to ensure uniform action without slip-stick-effects, and for ensuring oil- and air-tightness. I didn't expect how much thought they put into every individual car's suspension before starting the installation: Usually the original riding height was reduced (for improved cornering), and the steel spring rate increased (because the air cushions would soften the car again). Did you imagine that?

Edited June 23, 2022 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[George K]

What to say about Westinghouse shocks. I guess nothing.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

On 6/27/2022 at 10:08 PM, George K said:

What to say about Westinghouse shocks. I guess nothing.

Thanks for this photo, George, where do you find all these Locos? It seems a later model, 1919-23? No frond brakes, but already front bumper. Note how low the chauffeur has adjusted the springs. The tires nearly touching the fenders...

Spare tire covers and no rear light on the right side.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:53 AM, George K said:

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. You’re an engineer and find it’s function interesting. I find their vertical protrusion in all four corners aesthetically damaging. All good as it’s what makes the world go round.

I agree those exposed snubbers do nothing for the appearance of the car, despite them intended to be visible to advertise to the world the car is so equipped.  They remind me of the 5-mph bumpers on 1970's cars.  

 

Craig

[alsfarms]

Esthetically, the Westinghouse air shocks may make a style statement that is not to our modern tastes for sure.  But I look back at what these shocks represented at the time which was probably the top of the line in ride and creature comfort that you simply would not get with the basic automobiles available back in the day.  So undoubtedly the Westinghouse air shocks were looked at and admired very differently than they are today.  The Hassler shocks for a Model T is a bit over cooked for my taste but if they helped control the buckboard ride back then, they would have been looked at very differently than we look today.

Al

Edited June 30, 2022 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[Grimy]

On 6/23/2022 at 2:42 AM, Ittenbacher Frank said:

My guess: "If you had put ??? in I would have considered it". Seems a different handwritung compared to the previous card?

"price" ???

[Ittenbacher Frank]

2 hours ago, Grimy said:

"price" ???

Oh yes! Absolutely! I think you are right, thanks.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

The summer season seems to end soon, now I can report on my experience with the air springs: I drove the 1917 open Tourer app. 800 miles during this year, and the air springs are behaving better and better. I set and changed the riding height in the beginning a few times (I wrote about that), then re-adjusted the air pressure two or three times, now it remains stable for several months already. The leakage from the lubrication cups is getting less and less, I think I simply over-filled them.

Whenever friends drove with me they all praised the smooth ride over bumps and potholes. Combined with the smooth engine and "new" silent exhaust, it is a very unusual experience.

Compared to the Loco Sedan with traditional steel springs and four shock absorbers, I find the riding character a bit different: The Sedan is stiff, you can hear the window glasses rattling in their guides, but you don't notice the axles. The tourer is softer, no noise from any body parts (of course, it is an open car with no side windows), and because there are no shock absorbers, sometimes you can notice axle tramp, for example if you hit holes or bumps during cornering.

Near my home there is one stretch of road with a bad patchwork-surface, additionally it is inclined (right side of the lane gave way towards the ditch), and usually there is busy and fast traffic because this road leads to an entrance of the highway, which means you should not drive too slowly.

- The Sedan goes straight over that area like on rails, but many parts of the car are complaining with noise.

- The tourer just sails over the holes, but the rear end wiggles a bit. Not so much that I have to correct it with the steering, the car still follows its large front wheels. But not as stable as the Sedan.

Checking the oil level in the air chambers and changing their content is on my to-do-list for winter time. I will report.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Loco 90]

I believe that there a pair of Westinghouse air springs currently available on E-Bay.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

I found one more car equipped with Westinghouse air springs, unfortunately only on paper and not hiding in a shed in a Chinese village, have fun!

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Finally, after I have already bought four books about George Westinghouse, I found one little chapter mentioning his air springs for cars. Not much to learn from here. Do you have more?

I believe there must be more information around about the Westingouse Air Spring Company, most likely about their factory in New Haven, Ct., or the office in 2620 S.Michigan Avenue, Chicago, or the office in 244 West 49th street, Ney York City?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

As an aside, the main thing that I remembered about George Westinghouse, and potentially his greatest contribution overall, was his development of air brakes for railroad trains.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

3 hours ago, prewarnut said:

As an aside, the main thing that I remembered about George Westinghouse, and potentially his greatest contribution overall, was his development of air brakes for railroad trains.

...and his electric company, developing alternating current, transformers and the like, and the battle of currents with Edinson...absolutely amazing reading!

[prewarnut]

   No doubt Westinghouse was sage in predicting AC current benefits and marketability. He purchased patent rights from many Europeans including Nikola Tesla to boost his company's growth. The irony or antithetical use of his (Tesla's) name for the car, by the way, is that it is named after the inventor who developed AC motors (despite the car being a clear DC powered product). Does anyone want to tell the CEO? I have quietly laughed about this for years.

[Bloo]

The first Teslas used AC motors. I have no idea about current models.

[prewarnut]

10 hours ago, Bloo said:

The first Teslas used AC motors. I have no idea about current models.

If so I stand corrected then, thanks!

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Did Gruss take over the air spring business from Westinghouse in the early 20's?

Look at the patents.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

First: Westinghouse, New Haven, CT.

Then Westinghouse, San Francisco, CA.

Then Gruss, San Francisco, CA, but not the same road?

Edited April 7, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Recently I discovered another use of the air springs: on Ambulance cars, mainly Cunningham, and the rear units were attached outside of the body!

Have a look yourself.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Frank, 

You have posted some very interesting photographs and information. I had no idea that Westinghouse sold out this business to Guess.

Al

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Alan, I am not sure if it was sold or not, it is my assumption only, and I wish someone can tell us what really happened. Maybe someone has newspaper reports or advertisements about this?

Edited April 8, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Here is another interesting information: A Haynes touring car with Gruss Air Springs. They look a bit different to the Westinghouse units.

 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

10 hours ago, Ittenbacher Frank said:

Alan, I am not sure if it was sold or not, it is my assumption only, and I wish someone can tell us what really happened. Maybe someone has newspaper reports or advertisements about this?

Dear all,

I think my assumption was wrong. Westinghouse (with the inventor Richard Liebau) did not stop with the air springs at a certain time and then Gruss (with the inventor Raymond L. Gruss) took over, but they worked in parallel. They had different patents during similar periods of time. I compared the data on my car's ID-plates: all four are stamped Series 14, but three are golden colour, showing 10 patents ranging from 1912-1918, and the one on the rear right unit seems older, no golden colour (any more?), showing only 5 patents, ranging from 1912-1916.

I found two photos of Gruss ID-plates. Their patent dates are all different. See the comparison table.

Even in 1925, Liebau was granted another patent on Air Springs, while still working for Westinghouse.

Can someone explain that to me, please?

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[George K]

Hey Frank look more Westinghouse shocks on the 1921 just posted on the site.

[George K]

[prewarnut]

Frank, here's a question not asked: Engineers should be concerned about failure spots (I'm not an engineer but occasionally attempt to think like one).  How secure is the front spring shackle at the bottom of the unit? On the cross section of the Gruss it seems to be a pretty secure design connected to a piston going high in the cylinder so not much of a chance of the unit separating on a large bump. How about the Westinghouse? That has "c" type mounting around the eyelet of the spring shackle at the end. Is this design robust?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

3 hours ago, prewarnut said:

Frank, here's a question not asked: Engineers should be concerned about failure spots (I'm not an engineer but occasionally attempt to think like one).  How secure is the front spring shackle at the bottom of the unit? On the cross section of the Gruss it seems to be a pretty secure design connected to a piston going high in the cylinder so not much of a chance of the unit separating on a large bump. How about the Westinghouse? That has "c" type mounting around the eyelet of the spring shackle at the end. Is this design robust?

Dear Dan, to be honest, I have not dimanteled the unit for understanding how the piston with spring is secured against jumping out of the pipe in case the car is lifted. But I have just now called a man who had dismanteled these springs on his Packard some years ago. He remembers the piston has to be removed from the upper end, after unscrewing the head with the air valve.. He will soon check the details for us on the photos he made back then.

In the meantime I can tell you: When I apply more air pressure to the cylinders than is necessary to keep the car floating at the correct height, then they just stop at their highest position. The piston will NOT jump out from the cylinder.

I assume there is a collar which prevents this, perhaps it is the one barely visible on old the assembly photo.

The question about the connection between piston and spring leaf: It looks quite strong. I attach a photo of my tourer for your reference.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Does anyone know where this Locomobile is located today, and can perhaps provide more photos or details?

[Ittenbacher Frank]

I found one more Loco with air springs, obviously a six- or seven passenger car. It has an interesting top, and also a pair of support brackets for a suitcase, I assume?

[prewarnut]

Frank,

   I'm not worried about the piston lifting out, I was more interested in what you think of the casting you show where the leaf spring is attached.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

9 hours ago, prewarnut said:

Frank,

   I'm not worried about the piston lifting out, I was more interested in what you think of the casting you show where the leaf spring is attached.

Dan, look at these internal parts. I found the photos in one old article. There are actually three cylindical parts in each other, all made with very close tolerances and high grade material, amazing.

[prewarnut]

Frank, I am just wondering about the strength of this pin.

 

[Tavernstand1734]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:19 AM, Ittenbacher Frank said:

Does anyone know where this Locomobile is located today, and can perhaps provide more photos or details?

Believe this car as pictured to still be located in the Dougherty Museum - Longmont, Colorado.  Just North of Boulder, CO.

[alsfarms]

Tavernstand1734, do you have a side picture of this Locomobile?

Al

[Tavernstand1734]

Al,

 

I do not have any photos of this car, however there is a video with Doug Dougherty talking about a few of the cars in their museum in Longmont.  This Loco is part of that 53min. video and they start talking about it somewhere about the 22min. mark.  If you search for "Dougherty Museum Tour Longmont, CO"  you should be able to come up with the video which was posted on YouTube 3-years ago by "The Longmont Channel"; I assume is a Public Media/Local Access type organization.  They mostly talk about the cars, not much fluff which is nice, there are some other nice cars there besides this Loco shown in the video.  I have wanted to go for some time but not made it.